How much of Pakistani culture is Indian?

[INDIC]

Sir when people say India came into existence in 1947 the mean the current India which exists on Map on modern Maps

In 1947 we got new political system but our country as Bharat, India or Hind have existed since ancient time.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am sorry I disagree with you.

Khalid Bin Walid, (Saifullah - The Sword of Allah) was the only human to have caused a tactical defeat to the Muslims in the Battle of Uhud, under the Prophet (SAW) when the archers placed by the Prophet (SAW) moved away and Khalid took the advantage. This he did before he embraced Islam. Was he not brave or intelligent to have taken such an advantage before embracing Islam. Yes, he defeated the great Roman Empire in the Battle of Tabuk after he embraced Islam. And I am sure you would know why and when was he given the title of Saifullah by the Prophet (SAW).

I am proud of my ancestry, whoever they were. I am even more proud that I am the scion of and hold the cradle of this civilization now as a Muslim.

You don't want to agree with me. Please don't. I am not going to change my thinking because of you or anyone else.

An excellent example and a good point. Although I personally hold the man to be a man of blood. What he did in cold blood, not in the heat of battle, is sickening.

 

[Armstrong]

Sir why are you waiting for an Alim to do it you yourself don't want to do anything so you find an easy target and bash Uleams Sir Islam is safe because of these Ulemas yes some so called Ulemas are also their and as far as honour killings and other stuff are raised Sir its government duty to do it and Ulema can tell people they are wrong although things which in result in such kind of acts are also wrong but that is another debate Sir do your job and stop blaming others fight for Islam win or die its all worth it even if Al Ghazali would have been alive today so called those people who love to quote them after their death would have stood against them too

Dude, first off I wasn't knighted by the Queen so dispense with the 'Sir', merei Bhai !

Zarvan Sahib, I do what I can to try to understand Islam on my own but what I was referring to was one of two things; one - these Ulemas have political clout which means when they speak even the Government listens why then have they not pressurized the Government into aggressively addressing these issues ? If someone insults our Prophet (PBUH) they go ballistic but when our mother & our daughters are abused, raped or worse killed on a routine basis they pay only lip service to it ! What is more insulting - Pissing over what the Prophet (PBUH) stood for or just his name ? And this is not to say that we mustn't register our protest when he is insulted but only to impress upon you that it is more insulting when we violate everything he taught & yet claim so much reverence to him that we're willing to vandalize our own country ? Why this dichotomy ? Why not stand up for what he stood for first ?

Which brings me to, two - the Ulemas too form a portion of our so-called 'Civil Society' & just as journalists, defense analysts, social activists, lawyers etc. raise their voice & address a certain issue to give guidance or at least words to the thoughts of masses out there, so should the Ulema ! And yet instead they're more worried about where you place your hands when you pray & how much above from the ankle should your shalwar be then addressing the real issues ! When was the last time Sunni, Shi'ite & Ulema of some of the more, shall we say, not-mainstream, got together to address what the 'Shariah' really is ? How do we go about implementing it in Pakistan ! What are the laws that need to be revoked, what changed, what added to make our current system more Islamic ! When was the last time they actually got together to talk about these things whereby all Muslim sects were brought on board to achieve a consensus of a sorts instead of one Molvi in that Mosque & the other Molvi in the one adjacent to it declaring each other Kafir & what not ! For godsake can't you see that they have a role to play & yet they're busy either minting money like those naat khawans who'd put most pop-stars to shame or they're bickering amongst themselves as idiots ? Where is their contribution ?

 

[vsdoc]

What is the locha with the site?

Down two whole days?

Where has this discussion progressed?

Any conclusions?

Halfway meeting point?

Should Indians allow Pakistanis their unique identity and culture because we thrashed them last night?

P.S. Did you all see the gyrating Sri Lankan cheerleaders?

 

[Armstrong]

Hey, easy!

I don't want to get between you and Zarwan but in spite of his spirited Defence of al Ghazali, I personally believe that the turning point was "the closing of the gates of Ijtehad".

This is personal, and I don't want to get into controversies. But the vibrant nature of Islamic civilisation before and conditions that prevailed after surely speaks.

Yup thats something that Iqbal laments in his 'Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam' ! But I mentioned both Al-Ghazali & Ibn-Sina to represent two scholarly conflicting view points in a way that the latter could be pegged with the Mutazil'la (the Rationalists) whereas the former with the 'Pre-Destinarians' *dunno what the Arabic of it was...the Ashari'ite I think !*.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Sir when people say India came into existence in 1947 the mean the current India which exists on Map on modern Maps

Sir, Islam which is not a religion but a deen does not recognize maps and boundaries.

Seriously though, maps keep changing. For example, Sikkim joined India only in 1975

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why are Indians trying so hard to prove that we have the same culture?


Pakistanis should just say yes to make them happy. These guys are very stubborn and ziddy.

I can't understand.

Anyone might claim anything. If you want to refute them, why don't you do that with relevance and the right kind of evidence?

Somebody needs to do his homework, and it isn't the people claiming that it is one culture.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

aur Ivc wale hindu naee khelate the ...the hindu name was given in A.D nd muslim had imposed this name hindu ...indians are so confused for their identity .......

O Behan, Alexender's historians who accompained with him during his conquest wrote poems & stories about INDIA & HINDU.

Now dont tell ke Alexender can to India in AD not BC.

He doesn't know that I am a Sindhi, a Balochi, a Punjabi, a Pathan, a Kashmiri - because I am a Pakistani.

Nice way to get THANKS miyaaa mitthoo.... clapss clapss clapsss !!

What the hell is modernized version of ancient Indus valley? We are Muslims and our culture should not be associated with stone worshipers.

Tell this to worshippers of BLACK STONE or SANG-E-SAYAHH in Kaaba.

Why are Indians trying so hard to prove that we have the same culture?


Pakistanis should just say yes to make them happy. These guys are very stubborn and ziddy.

On lighter nore, following same culture is a different thing here thing is slightly different. We just dont follow same culture, we follow ours & you copy it.

PS: This answer is specially for HARDCORE TROLLS. Genuine pakistanis please ignore this one.

 

[Armstrong]

I can't understand.

Anyone might claim anything. If you want to refute them, why don't you do that with relevance and the right kind of evidence?

Somebody needs to do his homework, and it isn't the people claiming that it is one culture.

You still didn't get back to me with my remarks on that Bangladeshi Thread about 'all identities being created identities', 'paradigmatic shifts' & 'the prerogative of one to choose & refuse an identity' ! I feel so left out !

 

[Ticker]

Sir when he was proud on what he did I am saying that we Muslims don't take in pride that we were kafirs before no Sahabi took pride in what he was before converting to Islam Sir first read their lives Sir before commenting on them in fact Sahabas when talk about their age they some times use to count their age from the day they converted to Islam Sir He was given the tile of Saifulllah after he fought for Muslims in Tabuk after his conversion not before converting Mr

It is the respect which a human deserves for his abilities, whatever his religious beliefs are. I would be proud of my ancestors if they had done respectable things, whatever their religious beliefs were. Even our Prophet was respected and was known for his qualities before the God sent the angle. I hope you understand my points - you may not agree with these. I respect your point of view but reserve the right to disagree.

The title Saifullah was given to Hazrat Khalid after the battle of Mutah. In this battle, when he was given the command after nine of his predecessors embraced Shahadat, he re-organized the Muslim Army, launched a fierce attack to push the enemy back and then withdrew the Muslim Army to Madina.

When he arrived at Madina, people started throwing dirt at the soldiers and were angry at their first withdrawal after the battle of Uhud. "O you who have fled!" they cried. "You have fled from the way of Allah." The Prophet (SAW) restrained them and said, "They have not fled. They shall return to fight, if Allah wills it." Then the Prophet (SAW) raised his voice and shouted, "Khalid is the Sword of Allah."

Later the resentment against Hazrat Khalid died down, and the Muslims realised the wisdom, judgement and courage which he had shown in the Battle of Mutah. And the name stuck to Khalid. He now became known as Saifullah, i.e. Sword of Allah. When the Prophet gave Khalid this title, he virtually guaranteed his success in future battles.

Some historians have described the battle of Mutah as a victory for the Muslims; others have called it a defeat. As a matter of fact it was neither. It was a drawn battle; but drawn in favour of the Christians, for the Muslims withdrew from the battlefield and left it in possession of their opponents. We should have the courage to respect the opponents for causing us a withdrawal.

 

[ajtr]

You still didn't get back to me with my remarks on that Bangladeshi Thread about 'all identities being created identities', 'paradigmatic shifts' & 'the prerogative of one to choose & refuse an identity' ! I feel so left out !

An individual makes his/her own identity with their actions baki sab dada-pardada ki identity etc.bakwas hai.

 

[Ticker]

indians may /may not calim america but they sure claim india west of Radcliffe line.Aur woh bhi poore haq ke saath.

hmmmm ...... go back to sleep. Your thinking pot is producing steam.

 

[ajtr]

hmmmm ...... go back to sleep. Your thinking pot is producing steam.

Abhi to chai pakoray ka time hai sone ka nahi.......

 

[KRAIT]

An individual makes his/her own identity with their actions baki sab dada-pardada ki identity etc.bakwas hai.

An individual's identity and character develops according to exposure to social, economic. spiritual and political environment and family values transferred by parents if not from generation.

An individual does make its own destiny but for doing that one needs inspiration and resolve which comes from the experience of others, the failure and success of previous generations etc.

Its about what a person witness through out his life, the social structure, the hardships created by others, day to day events which leaves small imprints on his/her mind.

If one needs to understand it, kindly watch a documentary on Discover Channel about how child's brain develops.

One simple example: No one is born terrorist. It was hi destiny, yeah why not, considering the education he got, the torture or stress he went through, the resentment and frustration, poison injected by extremist leaders, his economic condition etc.

Also see Steve Jobs speech on Stay Hungry Stay Foolish. He tell about how you connect the dots backward.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Rora, what about Sindhis ?

By the way I'm not sure if there is anything called as 'mainstream Pakistani culture' ! If you move to Balochistan they have their own culture, the Pukhtoons with their Pashtunwali, the Punjabis with their own even the Sarikis & the Hindkowans have a different culture then ours, the Sindhis definitely have that ! And yet because we've interacted with each other for so long & been living in each others traditionally thought off areas, we've have certain cultural practices which overlap with each others.

And I will never forgive you for bringing Bilor to power ! Kameenei ne mujheee 4 ghantiii railway station pe wait karvayaaa thaaa !

He was probably counting his cash to make sure he could make good if asked.

There is no such thing as mainstream Pakistani culture. Culture goes into nations, nations don't go into cultures. You are right to say that Pakistan is Baloch + Pashtun + Punjabi + Seraiki + Hindko + Sindhi + Urdu-dominated upper Gangetic plain. What's wrong with that? Isn't that what happens in other countries? Look at a tiny country like Great Britain, or a huge one like India. Both are built of many building blocks. It doesn't stop any of them from being a nation, why should having many building blocks bother Pakistan?