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India Accepts Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force

my facts are straight, you can open your eyes now

in your previous post
India have 480 Combat aircraft while Pakistan have 413

I think we have to change definition of fact because of you :lol:

You are so funny

First its a basic trainer (I hope you know what it means), not a combat aircraft

Second, it has been upgraded to super Mushak

If its just a basic trainer then why every one need new technology ??

and third how many trainer have Indians got?? 70, which are deepak, which was obviously a huge flop, and was grounded , i can see why mig21 crashes all the time, cuz you don't have a perfect trainer :whistle:

This huge flop is made by India

And your Mushak another paint job like all your made in Pakistan product a copy of Saab MFI-15 Safari :lol:

duh!, you dont have anything, LCA is a joke

We dnt need any thing incomplete but your airforce have no choice. Its upto China what they want to sell you


I hope you induct more and more JF17 :lol:


soft loans :china:

and again soft loans dude:lol:

150 J10B on soft loan :lol: stupidity
 
In my opinion....Surgical strikes in S.Asia should be considered nothing more than precursor to a full blown war....

On what basis are you claiming this? How can a few aerial strikes in Pak-Occ-Kash lead to a full blown war? When a big intrusion like Kargil remained local , why do you think that some strikes will have greater implications? ( Think our soft attitude is precisely what Pakistani's take as cowardice)

So I personally wont like to comment on surgical strikes as they are a very blatant sign of aggression....Nevetheless...I am for going against terrorists (India centric) using special forces...
So lets leave this out of the discussion

Special forces may or may not be a good option as some places ( like valleys etc.) may have obvious approaches which can be guarded easily. Guess the strategy should be a mixed bag and we shouldn't back down. If Pakistan can carry out terrorism in JAK for 20 years on the pre-text of it being a "DISPUTED" territory then so can we. However lets leave the issue of surgical strikes for a later discussion.

To be very honest...the more this OBL fiasco unfolds, the more Im inclined to think that the PAF F-16s will become a non player for Pak in future war scenario (if at all).....
I think the JFT is something to be looked at with a keen eye since that can easily change the numbers game when coupled with the AWACs + refuellers

In case of a full blown war...PAF will be tasked with defending its borders....Its offensive capability is marred by the fact that they lack a solid air defence and that the numbers arent in their favor...currently

More or less I agree with you.

As mentioned....Surgical strikes are not as easy as many here make them out to be....
Apart from the military implications, the country needs to have
a) solid proof ie. Dont bomb a village full of civilians thinking they are terrorists...even if they are terrorists...the ability to change the story lies with the victim and can really hurt the attacker from a political standpoint....NOTE: India is no USA
b) Political will....
c) A strategic goal.....What next? What does one do once these terrorists camps are bombed...Is India going for Kashmir?....teach Pak a lesson?....where does it stop
d) Is the country ready to face war....ie. Be ready to defend Mumbai which will be target #1 for Pak

Debated earlier. I don't see how dropping few bombs on alleged terrorist camps in a "DISPUTED" territory can result in a full blown war. I am sure RAW will be able to provide that SOLID proof. At any rate , UN is going to listen to India ( esp when a few hundred respectable citizens of various nationalities get butchered). The strike will have a messaging effect that India is no more ready to take the punishment lying down. I mean seriously , how many terrorists have we persecuted by law in the last 10 years. ( My guess would be no more than 100. Kasab is still alive and the Pakistanis still call it an inside job. Can it get any worse? )


So frankly...NO
India will not opt for surgical strikes...
But this does not mean we lose....This means that the Pak "deep state" that has sheltered these fringe elements will be weakened through economic sanctions, losing allies and clout....India just needs to have calm nerves and wait it out....
Unlike most hyperactive members looking for any excuse to nuke....India should be cold and calculated....we know the numbers, tech, economy and political clout is in our favor....and the enemy knows it even better....Their main goal will be to make us blink first.....
PAF attacking India would be a suicide mission....at least at this stage of the decade


I think you're attributing the comments of Pakistanis on this forum to the state of Pak....

Trust me....kids high on hormones are not to be used as a benchmark for Pakistani reaction....Just as India has its excited electrons....so does Pak....
Any move by Pak will be equally calculated....and trust me....No country is suicidal....one would call their actions suicidal only post outcome of their actions...

Not really... I think once distortion and deception become part of your mindset. When terms like perennial enemy become common place and when a country starts getting ruled by a military ( be it pseudo or real) then we should be wary of the nation.

In the end , I think there are a lot of Pakistani nationals ,who are educated and progressive ( esp. those in big cities and abroad) ,who think rationally and gun for peace. Having said that , I believe that majority of people reside in small towns and villages and are fed by a constant propaganda machine. This disillusionment then carries on to the cities where a large percentage of middle class get converted to pseudo Jihadis.

As an outsider , I see a lot of problems in Pakistan. I wont say these are not in India. Many of them are similar ( in nature & scale). The difference is that whereas India has found a way to co-exist , to progress even in chaos , Pakistan has tried to define herself as anything which is not India. This feeling has transcended down to every facet of their civil society and has provided fodder to Mullahs and war-mongers alike.

Understand the post is a bit of digression , but guess at the end of the day , military is representative & reflection of the state . Dont see PAF or PA gaining any edge over IAF or IA till Pakistan comes out of the economic , political and more importantly intellectual turmoil that she is in.
 
By Raja G Mujtaba

“The Pakistan Air Force is stronger than ever. Since the last Indo-Pak air war of 1971, the Pakistan Air Force has with steely determination built up numbers, lethal capabilities and a combat force now counted as one of the most disciplined and well-trained air forces in the world. Headlines Today has a disturbing proof that all this has made India worried.” India Today 20th April 2011


Hi,

I think it is the worst time to post and start a thread with heading on this web-site------we just got our hinnies kicked----the air force went to sleep while on night watch-----. The moment that it was needed to do the job-----they had unplugged the wires of their radars.

Are you pakistanis so SHALLOW, INSECURE and SO SUPERFICIAL that you don't even see the irony of this post-----doesn't it seem ironic.
 
India jets are better then PAF.

But what annoys me, is the price per jet Pakistan is getting for JF 17, like the price of 1 Eurofighter, you can get like 5 JF-17 jet.

And I know what I would like out of the 2.

One EF Typhoon against 5 JF-17s...i think i know who will win.

Anyway,

Propaganda by India to justify arms buildup. We have 30-40 years old equipment which i think we have right to update.


About the OBL raid......there are still conflicting reports.

PAF has already said that it detected a US AWACs and 5 F-18s across the border in Afghanistan. However, to take action against US would need thinking and cooperation of the highest order in the Government, which Pakistan clearly lacks.

Pakistan, can however let US know that we do have right to defend ourselves and any provocation caused by the US (just because they think they can do anything anywhere they want) then US must be ready to face the results. There is patience and i think Pakistani public has shown far too much resilience and patience in the US WOT at a cost that is unimaginable....just because we too, like other humans, believe in world wide peace.
 
Some put the wrong facts. Let me correct. Facts are as of today, doesn't include upcoming deliveries.

India - 479 Combat Aircraft + 269 Ground Attack.
Pakistan - 423 Combat Aircraft including Ground Attack

So Total,
India - 748
Pakistan - 423

Now, Pakistan is 1/6th of India in economy still they have at least 50% aircraft against India. India need to look out whole country while Pakistan need to just defend 1200 Km. I guess, Pakistan Air force is great and I certify it. We need to spend heavily on Air Force now.
 
One EF Typhoon against 5 JF-17s...i think i know who will win.

Anyway,

Propaganda by India to justify arms buildup. We have 30-40 years old equipment which i think we have right to update.


About the OBL raid......there are still conflicting reports.

PAF has already said that it detected a US AWACs and 5 F-18s across the border in Afghanistan. However, to take action against US would need thinking and cooperation of the highest order in the Government, which Pakistan clearly lacks.

Pakistan, can however let US know that we do have right to defend ourselves and any provocation caused by the US (just because they think they can do anything anywhere they want) then US must be ready to face the results. There is patience and i think Pakistani public has shown far too much resilience and patience in the US WOT at a cost that is unimaginable....just because we too, like other humans, believe in world wide peace.

Penumbra,

Please tell us what would happen---what is the game plan against the u s----and so who won in the 1--5 euro fighter to jf 17
 
MastanKhan, I wrote a long long post in detail and exclusive information on the Lost Decade more like "Lost Decades" but all gone wasted due to this damn slow website problem.

My bad I did not save the copy of it or it would have shocked people over here praising PAF and the myth of Leading Air Force. Perhaps when my mind comes to place again I shall write it down refine and make our readers know the Facts vs Fiction of how PAF/Govts dealt in early 90s and post 9 11.
 
well,i think paf is growing stronger day by day...if iaf wants to match it need to get numbers and quality...
our a**shole politicians should get up and pls finilize the mrca tender..
 
Penumbra,

Please tell us what would happen---what is the game plan against the u s----and so who won in the 1--5 euro fighter to jf 17

The four JF-17 jet can try to crash into the single EF and the 1 remaining JF-17 jet will win :D

But can 100 EF beat 500 JF-17 jet? No
 
as of now iaf is at disadvantage. but with mmrca, arrival of fgfa, lca Mk 2 , amca iaf will again have superiority over paf.
even now iaf has edge over paf but slight one. as i mentioned above it will further increase.

Are you guys on drugs? What does the PAF posses that can take on the SU-30 MKI's that you have so many of???
 
The four JF-17 jet can try to crash into the single EF and the 1 remaining JF-17 jet will win :D

But can 100 EF beat 500 JF-17 jet? No

I think people do no understand how airwars are fought. Let us move every non dogfight related variable away and only look at plane A attacking plane B. The high tech impact is greatly reduces if more planes are entering the fight. If you have one v one then it is greatly impacted by the plane and pilot variables. If you add a few more planes in that dogfight you get a lot of more risk variables for all the planes. Friendly kill, one plane getting behind several others purely by chance, less clear SAW and you can add a lot more. EF2000 versus JF17 is not even but it is not F22 against Mig21 either. There is maximum one generation difference. About the quantity. There is no chance of a dogfight with 100 EF and 500 JF17. Maybe 6 versus 12 and even then you have a complex outcome. Just to remind you of the good old days. PAF and IAF are two good airforces. PAF did beat Mig21 with their Sabre while Mig21 was a lot better. And the IAF Gnat was one of the most superior opponents even though it was basic, small and not very impressive to see.
 
Yarar, what if a squadran made up of 3rd gen ac, showers missiles on 10 eurofighters in a dog fight... lol!! atleast 5 will down..
 
That is why India should chose French jets in the MMRCA, its not viable spending another $15m to get a EF jet.

When cheap JF-17 jets in numbers can take down EF jets.
 
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