World Defence Industry Ranking

[Baybars Han]

Comparison of India and Turkey in defence sector is apples and oranges as larger Indian economy allows investment in several more defence projects that Turkey does not have equivalents in like Aircraft Carriers, AWACS, Directed Energy Weapons, ABMs, Nuclear Submarines etc.


However If i am not wrong, for Turkey there is greater private sector participation in defence Industry than India

@Neptune @cabatli_53 are major Turkish defence companies private?

We don't have nuclear weapons so nuclear submarines is unnecessary. We have a small aircraft carrier / helicopter carrier which will be built in Turkey by Spanish-Turkish consortium- Juan Carlos class if I'm not wrong.

Again I never heard India built it's own awacs, I remember you have a Russian Israeli awacs. We don't have and don't believe we can make one currently so they were bought.

We have a long range air defence program ongoing that will be finished around 2022 I think. After the u-214 we won't import any more submarines as we have a project called milden. So that is said to be the last submarines we imported.

In Turkish defence industry there is many subsystems that are made by private firms. If I'm right there is a few laws that help this. Also in every project, there has to be a minimum of around 60-70% Turkish indigenous parts.

 

[mike2000 is back]

I agree. India couldn't make a tank in 60 years, a 3rd gen fighter in 50 years, no uav, no indigenous air defence, no indigenous transport heli, important most land platforms. So we can see that in terms of India the list is wrong. Their missiles are Russian. Only thing they are advanced is space program. Imports 90%.

Turkey makes uav (Anka, bayraktar, karayel) , tank( Altay) , frigates(ada class soon İstanbul class and tf2000), all land vehicles( kirpi, ejder, pars, Ural) ,short to medium range air defence soon long range( hisar) , Cruise missiles and advanced missile ( SOM, cirit) , trainer aircraft (hurkus) and many more. Exports nearing 2 billion every year which isn't too bad.

Japan is way ahead of India. It's just their constitution which is a problem.

Well, you are right to some extent. However, India isn't that bad either. It still produces many military equipment/weapons even though the vast majority of these weapons are built with Russian/U.S/French/British cooperation/help. But even so, a country still needs decent infrastructural base/skills/ good engineers/scientist etc.

So India is still not that bad as you said, though it's true they are still lacking in some high end sectors and still need foreign help/cooperation to build most of their weapons. However, overtime i will say they will learn and build more themselves, they are still in a learning curve, they will definitely get there IMO.

Turkey does make alot of weapons as well, but it's also with the help/cooperation of western powers from U.S/France/U.K and even Sweden/Israel. In short there is no harm in getting foreign help/cooperation, as far as you learn and adapt it to your own local conditions, and thus create a local defence industry where you can manufacture these products/equipment yourselves without foreign help. No harm in that, other countries did the same in the past.

India defence industry is ahead of Turkey overall though.

 

[Taygibay]

Something fun : the nations in the top tier are the only ones able to make fighter engines alone.
US is above, they make more than one. Russia then follows and apparently, it will please mikey,
the EJ 2000 is rated above the M-88.
China on the verge of making its own jet engines but not proven logically sits on the threshold!

Alone it may be a coincidence but add the aforementioned nuclear subs and USNC seat ( that
drives the will to be fully autonomous and equipped so funds research ) and the list starts making sense.

As for the Turkey/India fight, let's just say that each country took a different approach for now.
The answer will change with the years anyway until at least one achieves top tier, completes
the process of establishing a fully functional MIC.

Keep smiling and good day all, Tay.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Again I never heard India built it's own awacs, I remember you have a Russian Israeli awacs. We don't have and don't believe we can make one currently so they were bought.

DRDO AEW&CS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nike]

Well, you are right to some extent. However, India isn't that bad either. It still produces many military equipment/weapons even though the vast majority of these weapons are built with Russian/U.S/French/British cooperation/help. But even so, a country still needs decent infrastructural base/skills/ good engineers/scientist etc.

So India is still not that bad as you said, though it's true they are still lacking in some high end sectors and still need foreign help/cooperation to build most of their weapons. However, overtime i will say they will learn and build more themselves, they are still in a learning curve, they will definitely get there IMO.

Turkey does make alot of weapons as well, but it's also with the help/cooperation of western powers from U.S/France/U.K and even Sweden/Israel. In short there is no harm in getting foreign help/cooperation, as far as you learn and adapt it to your own local conditions, and thus create a local defence industry where you can manufacture these products/equipment yourselves without foreign help. No harm in that, other countries did the same in the past.

India defence industry is ahead of Turkey overall though.

they are just messed up with target timeline and technical data specs the high end platform they want to made (in short their end goals is mostly blurry), the overall India industrial military capacity is above average.


BTW, the reasons why Japan Industrial military capacity is behind India is very clear, Japan is held themselves to mastering and setting the capacity to build production line for most Missile for military use purpose (especially the Long Range Intercontinental Ballistic Missile), although they have the capacity to build their own version of AMRAAM and Patriot like missile, i am still believe the Japanese still holding themselves greatly. They should at par or more in technological know how with UK and France

 

[xyxmt]

Please do not underestimate Indian companies. BEL, Tata Advanced Systems, Tonbo Imaging (to name few)
are doing well. Let's not forget almost all major companies now outsource or do a JV with other companies. Our export volumes may not figure much since all people care about is the end product. It's like giving all the credit to Boeing for EA-18G Growler.


Boeing EA-18G Growler To Get BEL Produced Cockpit Sub-Assembly

Boeing gives a third party the design, specs and every minute detail from their product to be manufactured by that third party...that third party have no claim over that product but Boeing...this is like saying iPhone is a Chinese products

 

[cabatli_53]

I saw this ranking from a post in the Turkish Defence section. I wanted to ask peoples thoughts on it. It shows the levels/rankings of countries defence industries.. I dont agree with some of them however mostly it looks correct and I would like to see the thoughts of others. No trolls please.

That's the league table of Turkey's under-secretariat of defence industry analysts to put their current and future efforts into a group with countries having similar infrastructure. In accordance with our analysts, Turkey's current infrastructure is around level-3 to level-4 group which is ahead of Brazil, Norway like countries. The article I have posted with above image, point out that The range of total ongoing defence projects is quite large and there are quite big and strategic complete defence projects along with sub-component developments which is going to put Turkey into League-2 in a short time.

Comparison of India and Turkey in defence sector is apples and oranges as larger Indian economy allows investment in several more defence projects that Turkey does not have equivalents in like Aircraft Carriers, AWACS, Directed Energy Weapons, ABMs, Nuclear Submarines etc.


However If i am not wrong, for Turkey there is greater private sector participation in defence Industry than India

@Neptune @cabatli_53 are major Turkish defence companies private?

No comparison my friend. It is the table of Turkey's official analysts which puts India ahead of Turkey at present but It is underlined that Turkey will be inside of Level-2 within 10 years thanks to ongoing big and strategic defence projects. We don't have any idea Where Indian industry will be within following 10 years. Maybe ahead of us or not but It is for sure that Both country will achieve impressive developments that will proceed to boost both country more ahead !

 

[damm1t]

India is light years ahead of Turkey.

Bro, obviously, Turkey is just a client state and an importer of technology. There is a lot more examples. For example, they talked about their "indigenous" UAV whilst even the mission computer is imported.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/09/uav-embedded-computing.html

There are literally dozens of more examples, like their assembling of German subs, their tanks is also mostly south Korean tech with german Engines and gun. Many other examples, some of which you listed.

These people actually think they can develop SAM's and missile on their own. They think these things are just toys that you can develop just like that. As you said, these things need decades of development.

What turks do is simple, they're part of NATO and import techs and also import tech from south korean etc and just put them together using designs made for them by yet again other nations and create something and claim it is indigenous.



I love to see you debunk his statements. I am sure you were "laughing".



Don't forget space shuttles, death stars, millennium falcons etc.
Turkey should first develop a disel engine for its ships and an indigenous assault rifle before dreaming about things like long range missiles etc.

Oh God, you think countries just transfer away strategic military tech just because we are a Nato member? What kind of idiocy is this ??

By the way why Iran keeps beggin' Mama Russia for S-300? Is it not you boys said that Iran to unveil an air defence system ( Barvar 373 whatever ) better than S-300? Keep dreaming.. Btter than S-300 my azzz

Meanwhile Turkey decided to produce its own Long range air defence system. Low and medium range tests already began...

You guys rely on import weapons forever and ever while in 10 years we will be main supplier of ME, Mid-Asia and ex-Ottoman states.

 

[The Last of us]

Oh God, you think countries just transfer away strategic military tech just because we are a Nato member? What kind of idiocy is this ??

By the way why Iran keeps beggin' Mama Russia for S-300? Is it not you boys said that Iran to unveil an air defence system ( Barvar 373 whatever ) better than S-300? Keep dreaming.. Btter than S-300 my azzz

Meanwhile Turkey decided to produce its own Long range air defence system. Low and medium range tests already began...

You guys rely on import weapons forever and ever while in 10 years we will be main supplier of ME, Mid-Asia and ex-Ottoman states.

Yeah your Italian A-129, German subs, Korean tank etc etc are not imported tech Lets not forget you people cannot even develop a mission computer for the UAV's and have to import that (among many other subsystems).

Sierra Nevada awarded a contract to Curtiss-Wright to supply the Parvus DuraCOR 820 small-form-factor mission computer for use in the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) ANKA medium-altitude long endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/09/uav-embedded-computing.html

Even your so called airdefences are just German systems, i.e your so called Hisar airdefence are just Diehl / BGT Germany tech transfers.


IRIS-T SLS

And the so called turkish "indigenous" system.

Turkish system is made with tech trannsfer from Germany.
People are not so moronic to believe, turkey,a nation with no experience in this sector would all of a sudden develop dual pulse rocket system. First you people should learn to develop even a simple rocket without repainting Chinese B-611 and then we will talk, whilst you're at it, develop a mission computer and diesel engines etc.

As for Iranian-Russian s-300 deal. Yes Iran is begging. It is turkey who is begging for NATO, Chinese air defences. Unlike turkey, Iran is advanced in airdefence sector and actually has long rangr air defence missiles, i.e sayyad 3 with 200km+ range, something you are decades away from:

There is no reason to think Bavar-373 will not be more advanced than PMU-1. That is an old system with old electronics etc. Iran is not turkey, it has the technology to create such systems. Everything from missile and radar tech is there, there is no even just Bavara, Iran has mutple long range airdefence projects ongoing. Iran however will be getting very modernised s-300 system from Russia, it will be close in tech to the s-400. And as it will be 1-2 before Bavar is actually mass produced, this modern s-300 will aid Iran greatly. Even our Chinese friends import Russian airdefence despite their own impressive capabilities.

You can only import technologies. You have nothing strategic worth mentioning and if you did, it is mostly made up of imported parts. Let me know when you people in the next 30 years develops something like an anti ship ballistic missiles etc.

Giving this post a negative ref in attempt to hide it is such a desperate move.

 

[damm1t]

Yeah your Italian A-129, German subs, Korean tank etc etc are not imported tech Lets not forget you people cannot even develop a mission computer for the UAV's and have to import that (among many other subsystems).
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/09/uav-embedded-computing.html

Even your so called airdefences are just German systems, i.e your so called Hisar airdefence are just Diehl / BGT Germany tech transfers.


IRIS-T SLS

And the so called turkish "indigenous" system.

Turkish system is made with tech trannsfer from Germany.
People are not so moronic to believe, turkey,a nation which no experience in this sector would all of a sudden develop dual pulse system etc. First you people should learn to develop even a simple rocket without repainting Chinese B-611 and then we will talk, whilst you're at it, develop a mission computer and diesel engines etc.

As for Iranian-Russian s-300 deal. Yes Iran is begging. It is turkey who is begging for NATO, Chinese air defences. Unlike turkey, Iran is advanced in airdefence sector and actually hs long rangr air defence missiles, i.e sayyad 3 with 200km+ range, something you are decades away from:

There is no reason to think Bavar-373 will not be more advanced than Pmu-1. That is an old system with old electronics etc. Iran is not turkey, it has the technology to create such systems. Everything from missile and radar tech is there. Iran however will be getting very modernised s-300 system from Russia, as it will be 1-2 before Bavar is actually mass produced. Even our Chinese friends import Russian airdefence despite their own impressive capabilities.

Don't compare us to your joke of an industry. You people are nothing without the charity of the outside such as Korea and your NATO masters. You can only import technologies. You have nothing strategic worth mentioning and if if you did, it is mostly made up of imported parts. Let me know when you kind in the next 30 years develops something like an anti ship ballistic missiles etc.

No go see if South Korea will give you their cruise missile so can repaint it and claim it was turkish made.

Oh man you are really desperate.. what mullahs did to you... poor irani

 

[The Last of us]

Oh man you are really desperate.. what mullahs did to you... poor irani

A useless one line reply, which is only thing your kind is capable off, read the comment and weep and lets see you actually attempt to debunk a single line of it.

 

[Baybars Han]

Oh man you are really desperate.. what mullahs did to you... poor irani

brother this guy bookmarked that lol. Dont try argue because he will continue forever. He has no life. Im sure hes in like 50000 different forums and sites searching for bad areas about us. yet hes so dumb that if he compares the missile he said we copied, nearly all the missiles in that segment look similar/the same.

 

[damm1t]

A useless one line reply, which is only thing your kind is capable off, read the comment and weep and lets see you actual attempt to debunk a single line of it.

Why waste my time to educate you? you are desperate

 

[The Last of us]

Why waste my time to educate you? you are desperate

I am the one educating you kid, you people are too brainwashed. i;d like to see you go ahead to debunk my comment.
Is it false that you heli, tank, submarines, uav etc etc are either completely imported techs or built using heavily imported components et cetera. For god sakes you people can't even make a diesel engine for your ships

 

[damm1t]

I am the one educating you kid, you people are too brainwashed. i;d like to see you go ahead to debunk my comment.
Is it false that you heli, tank, submarines, uav etc etc are either completely imported techs or built using heavily imported components et cetera. For god sakes you people can't even make a diesel engine for your ships