Which is more advance, JF-17 Block 3 or F-16?

[araz]

E 'the f#*king' xactly.

All proponents of Tejas had said the same then and are still saying it now.
Aakhir mein kya hua, Tejas ko toh lena hi pada, all that denial and wasted time.

If IAF had conceded and had stopped being so obstinate earlier on we would have stabilized Tejas' manufacturing line and improved upon it by now.

Literally every country that can make a fighter has done so, no one has a perfect fighter on day 1.
But no, apparently for the IAF desi maal is just not good enough and is liable to be held to standards far more stringent than foreign stuff.
As they say ''ghar ki murgi daal barabar".

They are only getting this now.

Your babu baniya wants to go hunting for more lakshmi by bringing out tenders, taking bribes and then prolonging the effort to make more money.
No matter how good your economy having paid 8-9 billion for 36 jets, you are not able to push another contract through for the same amount for a single engined fighter. That is a fact. The only reasons the arabs do it is because the money keeps coming from the sale of oil.
Tejas has been a dud because of lack of range and being too heavy. However continuing of the effort would have gotten you a better plane eventually. Even if it was not good enough the next iteration would have been better. But trying to get the best plane ever has resulted in a Thaila queen good for nothing. I wish the plane the best but my sincere fear is it is too little too late. But still induct it and improve upon it.
A

 

[MastanKhan]

I know a fair amount about air warfare as an enthusiast to submit my views- And without any personal attacks. The JF 17 is more comparable to a previous generation of Migs than a F16. Btw- The first rule of air warfare, check the adversary frontline aircraft you will be facing. Both in your case and China you know what those are and I suspect China knows JF17 is lacking in any form.

Please try to reply without cursing and personal attacks- it only proves you've been perturbed.



Question is not why would they buy, rather why would create a whole new platform and not consider it for themselves. The answer is obvious, honestly. It is a costs conscious aircraft with corresponding capabilities.

The US example you gave is precisely my point. The U.S would not create an aircraft platform and not have it in its arsenal. The US sells its F16s to its allies and uses it itself. Its allies don't ask the US to develop a new platform for them.

An aircraft made for limited, small budget airforces around the world should not be compared to an F16 platform.

Hi,

Your's is rather an ill informed post---.

Why would the JF17 be closer to the mig21 than other aircraft when Paf had access to the F20 Tigershark---Fa18 Hornet---F16's---Grippen----Mirage 2K's.

Paf had access to grippen for 2 1/2 years before re-starting on the JF17 project---.

Paf had full access to the F20 Tigershark when it analyzed it years ago---.

Paf had full access to the Fa18 hornet when it assessed it as well.

The primary to go aircraft of the Paf is american---the primary weapons of the pak military are american unless not available otherwise---then why would it chose and obsolete machine for the basis of its new aircraft---.

The JF17 has nothing functional in common with the mig21---so I don't know what kind of aircraft enthusiaist are you---.

Neither the nose---nor the fuselage---nor the wings---or the tail---nor the cockpit---nothing at all from the Mig21---.

The size is the identical coppy of the grippen---the shape is the copy of the F20 but modern---the cokpit between the Grippen---F20 and the F16---wing root extensions from the F18---.

The performance is exactly the same as that of a Grippen---the weapons systems are purely identical to those being used by the grippen---the BLK 3 would have similar upgrades as would the Grippen NG---.

As much as Grippen is desperately trying to show of its capabilities to get a sale---JF17 is not going to disclose to the public what its capabilities are just like that---.

People need to understand---the profile of an aircraft means nothing---. A profile of an object is basically an illusion

Can someone explain what is the profile function of an aircraft---

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Your babu baniya wants to go hunting for more lakshmi by bringing out tenders, taking bribes and then prolonging the effort to make more money.

Most of these leeches are Congressi turds.

No matter how good your economy having paid 8-9 billion for 36 jets, you are not able to push another contract through for the same amount for a single engined fighter. That is a fact. The only reasons the arabs do it is because the money keeps coming from the sale of oil.

People might have the impression that the laggard fashion of selection in India is because there's budgetary issues but no, its just our bureaucracy and the painfully horrible DPPs.

We actually do have the dolla-dolla bills, the recent $15 billion fighter jet RFI floated proves so. This particular RFI states that 85% of the aircraft have to be made in India effectively guaranteeing that the price will be more than if procured off the shelf. Hence money is not an issue.

Tejas has been a dud because of lack of range and being too heavy. However continuing of the effort would have gotten you a better plane eventually. Even if it was not good enough the next iteration would have been better. But trying to get the best plane ever has resulted in a Thaila queen good for nothing. I wish the plane the best but my sincere fear is it is too little too late. But still induct it and improve upon it.
A

That sounds like an over simplification.
I hope you do realise that the Tejas is inducted already, its officially no longer a showpiece.
Also, granted Tejas is heavier, it also has more MTOW.
3000km is a good enough range for a fighter of its weight class.

Besides the current version of the Tejas will in all probability be produced only till SP-40 while IAF has already issued a RFP for 83 Tejas Mk1As which will be around 1000kgs lighter than Mk1s thereby resolving the weight issue and also have several different upgrades.
Mk1A's design except for the AESAR and jammer pod is complete while the Uttam AESAR is being tested as we speak.

Tejas is definitely late, it just isn't hopeless like it has been impressed upon by our media.
The production capacity has sped up since December last year and a handful of Tejas have flown since then.
In fact two new Tejas flew on last month alone.

As they say, "daer aaye, drust aaye".

 

[Blitz Falcon 3536]

Well remember we are talking about the block 3 not 2. Tho it's specs are not confirmed yet but by what news is available it seems the engine will a newer one giving much more speed. Avionics and radars such as AESA radar which is better than radars used by F-16 . And the addition of Helmet mounted display along with other big changes. ID say the JF-17 3 matches our best F-16s

OK. Jf has a few advantages.
A. Low RCS therefore difficult to pinpoint in the air.
B. Our product with open architecture therefore easier to integrate any weapon we care to induct.
C. Diversity of weapons already mated to the platfofm make it a true multi role AC.
D. No fear of sanctions.
Where it loses out:
A. 16s with CFT have unmatched range.
B. The quality of Radar and avionics is leagues above.Higher resolution and capability to track and attack targets simultaneously.
C. Better percormance of AMRAAM and other missiles.
D. More powerful engine giving better maneouverability.
E. Overall better and more reliable engine which needs less maintenance.
F. Can carry more weapons over all.
G. Inspite of their loud protestations the IAF does not want to engage a PAF 16. EVEN THE IDAF 16s ran away on a chance encounter with???(Windy knows who) at the Indo Pak border.

 

[punit]

E 'the f#*king' xactly.

All proponents of Tejas had said the same then and are still saying it now.
All that denial and wasted time, aakhir mein kya hua, Tejas ko toh lena hi pada.

If IAF had conceded and had stopped being so obstinate earlier on we would have stabilized Tejas' manufacturing line and improved upon it by now.

Literally every country that can make a fighter has done so, no one has a perfect fighter on day 1.
But no, apparently for the IAF desi maal is just not good enough and is liable to be held to standards far more stringent than foreign stuff.
As they say ''ghar ki murgi daal barabar".

They are only getting this now.

Desi maal =/= sarkari maal. Story of Tejas would have been diff if the dodos like HAL was kept out of it.

 

[帅的一匹]

Well remember we are talking about the block 3 not 2. Tho it's specs are not confirmed yet but by what news is available it seems the engine will a newer one giving much more speed. Avionics and radars such as AESA radar which is better than radars used by F-16 . And the addition of Helmet mounted display along with other big changes. ID say the JF-17 3 matches our best F-16s

BLKIII will be least on par if not superior compared with F16 BLK52.

 

[GriffinsRule]

BLKIII will be least on par if not superior compared with F16 BLK52.

As it relates to Block 52+, the upcoming Block III will be better in a certain aspects related to the radar performance, and in the case of Pakistan, perhaps in certain weapon packages like AShM and ARM, as PAF F-16s are not as potent as similar variants in NATO air forces for example. But a point to keep in mind is Block 52+ itself goes back to late 2000. Its almost a 20 year old system. Since then, there have been Block 52+ Advanced, Block 60/61, and most recently Block 70. So which block are we comparing the upcoming Block III JF-17 to? (of which we dont know much ourselves anyways)

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

As it relates to Block 52+, the upcoming Block III will be better in a certain aspects related to the radar performance, and in the case of Pakistan, perhaps in certain weapon packages like AShM and ARM, as PAF F-16s are not as potent as similar variants in NATO air forces for example. But a point to keep in mind is Block 52+ itself goes back to late 2000. Its almost a 20 year old system. Since then, there have been Block 52+ Advanced, Block 60/61, and most recently Block 70. So which block are we comparing the upcoming Block III JF-17 to? (of which we dont know much ourselves anyways)

Which F-16 would PAF expect to meet in combat?
The only realistic would be Block 70, and that only if India selects the F16.

It is better to think about how the JF-17 fares against the Su-30MKI and the Rafale.

 

[Dalit]

BLKIII will be least on par if not superior compared with F16 BLK52.

No doubt that with the AESA upgrade the JF-17 Block III is in a league of its own. This radar truly pushes the JF-17 capabilities to a whole different level.

The F-16 Block 52 is a good fighter, but it has its limitations.

 

[araz]

No doubt that with the AESA upgrade the JF-17 Block III is in a league of its own. This radar truly pushes the JF-17 capabilities to a whole different level.

The F-16 Block 52 is a good fighter, but it has its limitations.

I think you need to take a few things into consideration. Firstly 16 is a different class fighter and with CFT its range will never be matched. Secondly I will disagree that the software of Bl. 3 will still match that of 16/52 as the specs remain unknown which in itself is a problem when you compare a bird in hand with a non existent one. Thirdly the body life and engine on 16s remains better which means less maintenance however pound for pound Bl. 3 would remain cheaper to maintain due to local input.
There are distinct advantages in that the Bl.3 has AESA, Will be able to carry a much more diverse variety of weaponry, remains upgradeable as new tech becomes available and lastly it is our product and therefore is not prone to sanctions.
For all practical purposes we are comparing diverse machines and such diversity should give a certain advantage to the heavier machine. Lastly in my humble opinion the notion of 16s becoming hanger queens on account of bugs in an Indo Pak war is fallacious one. Surely the US will sanction us and not sell spares but will never hamper the quality of the product as it remains the biggest propaganda advert for them if their machine overcomes the SUs or the Rafale. This in itself and the fact that the US has no value for lives of the brown or black people when it comes to industrial promotion will prevent them from doing so. My opinion therefore could be totally wrong.
Regards
A

 

[khanasifm]

As it relates to Block 52+, the upcoming Block III will be better in a certain aspects related to the radar performance, and in the case of Pakistan, perhaps in certain weapon packages like AShM and ARM, as PAF F-16s are not as potent as similar variants in NATO air forces for example. But a point to keep in mind is Block 52+ itself goes back to late 2000. Its almost a 20 year old system. Since then, there have been Block 52+ Advanced, Block 60/61, and most recently Block 70. So which block are we comparing the upcoming Block III JF-17 to? (of which we dont know much ourselves anyways)

There is no stand off capability on f-16 compared to jf 100 plus miles /km

There is anti radiation’s or sead capability using dedicated missile

There is no spares/service capability 4th level

There is no capability to add your own choice of avionics and weapons

Bottom line no dependency

 

[CriticalThought]

There is no stand off capability on f-16 compared to jf 100 plus miles /km

There is anti radiation’s or sead capability using dedicated missile

There is no spares/service capability 4th level

There is no capability to add your own choice of avionics and weapons

Bottom line no dependency

When I see the two being compared, I like to think how each will fare in a 1 v 1 scenario. It should be kept in mind that AESA isn't some kind of silver bullet. The sum total of an aircraft's capability comprises defense, offense, and tactics. And even with Block 3, the two will be evenly matched. That is, either aircraft has a chance of scoring a kill against the other.

 

[saltyashell]

Will AESA in all the new gen fighters make AWACS obsolete ? AWACS also has a AESA radar but of a more sensitive nature.

 

[CriticalThought]

Will AESA in all the new gen fighters make AWACS obsolete ? AWACS also has a AESA radar but of a more sensitive nature.

It depends who's your adversary. If the enemy has the same capability as you, you will both see each other at the same time, taking out any advantages. In that case AEWACS could become the deciding element. But let's say the enemy has a simple pulse doppler radar. Even then, if he understands the limitations of your AESA radar, in terms of angles of approach, speed, and chooses to employ selective LO measures such as RAM coating on the front, he can still score a kill. Remember AESA makes jamming difficult, but not entirely impossible. The enemy AEWACS has to apply broad spectrum jamming for only so long for his fighter to get to WVR thus taking away your BVR advantage.

Aerial warfare isn't a contest of my radar is bigger than your radar. It is a science and an art. Physics plays as much of a role, as deception.

 

[帅的一匹]

Will AESA in all the new gen fighters make AWACS obsolete ? AWACS also has a AESA radar but of a more sensitive nature.

AWACS has bigger radar with longer detection range, and faster processing speed. now stealthy fighter jet carrying VLRAAM stand a chance to take out AWACS before found.