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What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?

deny the physics too.

The First Law of Thermodynamics is stated as follows: Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. There are no natural processes that can alter either matter or energy in this way. This means that there is no new matter or energy coming into existence and there is no new matter or energy passing out of existence. All who state that the universe came into existence from nothing violate the first law of thermodynamics, which was established by the very scientific community who now seem willing to ignore it. In summary, this law plainly demonstrates that the universe, and all matter and energy within it, must have had a divine origin—a specific moment in which it was created by someone who was all-powerful.
The Existence of God – Logically Proven!
 
Most people probably support the ''live and let live'' ideology but the problem with theocracies is that the mullahs can hijack it easly and forbid whatever they want and oppress whoever they want, there is no clear definition of Sharia and there are atleast 20 Sharia states with different realizations with more or less oppressive regimes.
pretty much

Islam is not passive religion,Do not talk about Islam.
passive? whats that?
 
LOL, it is science which tells us how universe is created. BTW, I said before that brainwashed people are living in their own imaginary world. I don't care about your world, what I care about is science, and science has already provided us proofs and insights about universe.

You're wrong , All that human knows about science ( for example Cosmos ) are just suppositions .

14 centuries ago when there was no NASA , in so called uncivilized lands of Arabia Qur'an talked about universe expansion , star collapsing on itself , oneness of earth and sky before the big bang and so many other things scientists have reached to recently .

Qur'an talked about creatures in skies and earth 1400 years ago which is now the biggest question of scientists that whether any living thing exist outside the earth or don't and this might take hundreds of years for them to answer this question and may not be answered at all .

Calling me brainwashed is insulting and not gonna help anything .
 
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This survey was done in US where firstly religion is not that important , secondly its not the one ( Islam ) that I based my comments on .

Unlike you , I believe that as the science advances proving God becoming easier .


LOL, The first graph is for all countries in the world. including the islamic countries.
BTW, how science has made proving god easier? based on the data, it has made scientists too run away from god. :lol:


Proving the concept of god has nothing to do with Science. The realm of arguments about existence of god concerns themselves with epistemology ie the very nature of knowledge.

Judging existence of god by scientific methods has a presupposition that phenomenal reality is in consonance with noumenal reality where we are able to sense whole reality of Universe and are not in a situation where the reality we know is a small part of complete whole of reality.

Proof of God as a concept is beyond the competence of Science. The only attribute of God that Science could disprove is the ever meddling description of god as in classical religions.
 
faghat ye sari be internet bezani mibini chand hezar hezar weblog va site mazhabi vojud dare.zamane shah hame peye aragh... dokhtar va... budan.kesi nemidunest quran chie islam chie...faghat tu maraseme khatm quran mikhundan.
o_O
 
You're wrong , All that human knows about science ( for example Cosmos ) are just suppositions .

14 centuries ago when there was no NASA , in so called uncivilized lands of Arabia Qur'an talked about universe expansion , star collapsing on itself , oneness of earth and sky before the big bang and so many other things scientists have reached to recently .

Qur'an talked about creatures in skies and earth 1400 years ago which is now the biggest question of scientists that whether any living thing exist outside the earth or don't and this might take hundreds of years for them to answer this question and may not be answered at all .

Calling me brainwashed is insulting and not gonna help anything .

Even if it mentions such thing, it doesn't necessarily have to be a "miracle". There were more advanced civilizations nearby Arabian peninsula. Take pyramids for example. Does anyone call them "miracles" or God's creations?
 
Proving the concept of god has nothing to do with Science. The realm of arguments about existence of god concerns themselves with epistemology ie the very nature of knowledge.

Judging existence of god by scientific methods has a presupposition that phenomenal reality is in consonance with noumenal reality where we are able to sense whole reality of Universe and are not in a situation where the reality we know is a small part of complete whole of reality.

Proof of God as a concept is beyond the competence of Science. The only attribute of God that Science could disprove is the ever meddling description of god as in classical religions.

I think I need to elaborate it. God has not one definition everywhere. Allah is different from Zeus, and is different from yahweh, ... In addition to these gods, philosophers have also defined some gods. like an omnipotent god, or ...
Semitic gods, (Allah, and Yahwah) have talked about some scientific facts which they are proved to be wrong. Allah says that mountains are like nails for Earth, or he says that we have 7 skies, ... which all of them are proved to be wrong. If a god, which is supposed to know everything, explains something wrong, then he cannot exists. But, If you are talking about philosophic gods, like "Universal God", then we may face the russell's teapot analogy, and we may have an agnostic position about it.
 
In order to find out what is meant by “the seven heavens”, a few points must first be mentioned:

1) The Holy Quran clearly mentions "the seven skies" seven times[1] and twice indirectly[2], while it has apparently spoken of “the seven earths” only once.[3]

2) The literal meaning of “Sama” (sky) is as follows: “Sama” comes from the root word “Sumoww”, which means elevation[4], some Arabic linguists even claim that anything that is located above something else is a “sky” in relation with the lower object and the latter is called an “earth” in relation with the higher object.[5]

3) “Sama” in the Quran:

The word “sama” and its derivatives have been mentioned in the Quran 310 times in which have been used for two meanings:

a) A materialistic meaning:

The Quran has used this word (sama) for its materialistic meaning in many instances, such as:

1) Meaning upwards: اصلها ثابت و فرعها فی السماء “…whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the sky” [6]

2) Meaning the atmosphere surrounding the earth: “ و نزلنا من السماء ماءً مبارکاً” “And we send down from the sky blessed rain” [7]

3) Meaning space, the place where the stars and other planets are located: “Blessed is He who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a lamp and a moon giving light” [8]

b) A spiritual meaning:

The holy Quran has also used the word "sama" in its spiritual meaning many times:

1) Meaning the level of “nearness” and “presence” in which this world’s affairs are originally managed from: “He directs the affairs from the sky to the earth”[9]

2) Meaning a high and true thing[10]: “And in the “sky” is your sustenance and that which ye are promised”[11]

4) What is meant by “sab’” (seven)?

The word sab’ is used in two ways in Arabic:

a) For the number seven, which is a digit used in mathematics.

b) To signify abundance and large sums and quantities.

5) What the Quran means by the term “Seven Skies”:

Interpreters of the Quran say that there are several possibilities concerning the meaning of this term:

a) Here, if seven means the digit seven, “seven skies” can be referring to one of two things:

1) Seven skies full of stars and galaxies like the sky of planet earth. In this case, there are chances that there are also seven worlds out there similar to ours that haven’t been discovered yet.[12]

2) Seven levels of “nearness”, “presence”, and high spiritual things (the seven skies), in contrast to the seven low levels of materialistic being in nature (the seven earths).[13]

b) If “seven” is being used here to show abundance and large sums, three meanings are possible for the abovementioned term (the seven skies):

1) That Allah created many skies (each sky being a collection of planets, galaxies, stars etc.) and many earths (planets made of soil similar to our planet) in which all are suspended in space.

2) That Allah has created the many different layers of the atmosphere and has also created the different layers of the earth or different parts of the earth.

3) That Allah has created different levels of spirituality, ranks of nearness and presence, and high spiritual objects as well.

Conclusion:

Given the fact that we don’t have enough information on the meaning of “the seven skies” in the Quran, and that science still has many questions regarding space and different galaxies, one cannot reach a definite conclusion and all of the theories expressed merely theories that aren’t certain.[14] Yet, one must remember that the Quran’s main goal is the spiritual guidance and growth of mankind. Therefore, when the Quran speaks of “the seven skies and earths”, the movement of the sun and earth etc., in addition to what it is claiming is absolutely true, it is pointing to the never-ending might and power of Allah. Also, when such subjects are mentioned by the Quran, it is easier for man to get more familiar with his lord and think about his vast and astonishing creation. Furthermore, some of the scientific material in the Quran needs more time and scientific evidence to be proven. Therefore, if science doesn’t say anything on a specific Quranic theory, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is incorrect.


For further information, see:

1) Dr. Mohammad Ali Rezai Esfehani, Pejoohesh dar E’jaze Elmiye Quran (A Research on the Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran), v.1, pg. 134.

2) Mohammad Taqi Mesbah Yazdi, Ma’arefe Quran, pg. 234.

3) Makarem Shirazi, Tafsir Nemooneh, v.1, pg 165.[15]
 
You're wrong , All that human knows about science ( for example Cosmos ) are just suppositions .

14 centuries ago when there was no NASA , in so called uncivilized lands of Arabia Qur'an talked about universe expansion , star collapsing on itself , oneness of earth and sky before the big bang and so many other things scientists have reached to recently .

Qur'an talked about creatures in skies and earth 1400 years ago which is now the biggest question of scientists that whether any living thing exist outside the earth or don't and this might take hundreds of years for them to answer this question and may not be answered at all .

Calling me brainwashed is insulting and not gonna help anything .
Are you joking with me? Did science prove earth to be flat? what about dying sun each day in a swamp? what about 7 skies? Are every species exist or created as pairs?
opposite of all them are proved by science and now you are trying to make up some explanations and relate them to science which is not even barely related to it.
It would be good for you to read some of the articles in the link below:
Category:Islam and Science - WikiIslam
 
@rmi5
Do you believe in a creator?

Another thing transforming a religion based state to a secular one is no easy task... some people harshly critise previous governments for banning hijab. But like i said before transition is not easy. We don't need any hijab ban now, but i think at that time we needed it.
why ban the hijab?
 
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i am asking you about achievements of Islamic government? what they did for Islam , the population of true muslims among the Iranian youth? before and after revolution (not the American Muslims, you know what i am talking about)
and by the way can you explain why 1/3 of our university students are atheists and another 1/3 just believe in god.
first of all, no matter how I look at this matter, our today's youth are by far better than the pre revolution, find the videos of Iranian in pre revolution, then compare them with today. also about the statistic which you gave, I reject it completely. 1/3 atheist? till today I haven't seen even one atheist (denying god) in my life, yes there are plenty of people who don't pray(namaz), but it doesn't mean they are atheist.
just because they don't practice their religion, it doesn't mean they will deny their believes and religion's values too. there is a far distance between what people believe and what they do. here comes the concept of the "Nafse Ammareh - نفس اماره".
if the statistics which you said was true, then our dear reformist candidate wouldn't withdraw from the presidency election, in all of our elections reformist should have win, Ahmadi nejad shouldn't have win the election in 88, and you know better that many of religious people voted for Mousavi. if what you say is true then why the number of demonstrators in 22 Bahman is increasing?
FYI me, my family and my friends, none of us has ever participated in these demonstrations. but all of us believe in this religion and system. our people are truly suffering from the sanctions, but still a religious government come out of their votes, this is my indicator for the number of Muslims in Iran.
 
first of all, no matter how I look at this matter, our today's youth are by far better than the pre revolution, find the videos of Iranian in pre revolution, then compare them with today. also about the statistic which you gave, I reject it completely. 1/3 atheist? till today I haven't seen even one atheist (denying god) in my life, yes there are plenty of people who don't pray(namaz), but it doesn't mean they are atheist.
just because they don't practice their religion, it doesn't mean they will deny their believes and religion's values too. there is a far distance between what people believe and what they do. here comes the concept of the "Nafse Ammareh - نفس اماره".
if the statistics which you said was true, then our dear reformist candidate wouldn't withdraw from the presidency election, in all of our elections reformist should have win, Ahmadi nejad shouldn't have win the election in 88, and you know better that many of religious people voted for Mousavi. if what you say is true then why the number of demonstrators in 22 Bahman is increasing?
FYI me, my family and my friends, none of us has ever participated in these demonstrations. but all of us believe in this religion and system. our people are truly suffering from the sanctions, but still a religious government come out of their votes, this is my indicator for the number of Muslims in Iran.
as you can see i already deleted all of my posts and i am not Interested in continuing this discussion because its pointless.
 

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