What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?

[Ir.Tab.]

It is very interesting for me to know to how extend this topic is popular within Iranians.

All discussion about:

1. secularism,
2. pros & cons of secularism,
3. the readiness of the nation,
4. the importance of religion in diplomacy,
5. contradicts of religion and politic,
6. pros & cons of religious government,
7. personal freedom, social freedom, religion and secularism
8. secularism and anti-religion-ism
9. history of secularism in Iran and miss-understandings
10. secularism and minorities both religional and ethnical
11. secularism, religion and democracy

are all welcomed. In addition posts from international members are pleased, too.

Please do not hesitate to post any opposed idea and arguments. Please avoid any insult to any religion, races and countries which is clearly against FORUM RULES AND REGULATIONS and will definitely followed by treatment of MODs.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

I hope for a secular Iran. But secularism on its own is not enough, Iran also needs free and democratic government. In my opinion the country isn't ready yet for full secularist government. There are still many religious people, especially in the country side and smaller towns. But we can start the movement towards reform now.

But I don't think Iran should cut all ties to religion. It should still be an important factor in our foreign policy. For example the continued support of Shia Iraq and so on.

In terms of minorities I would support language rights for Kurds and Azeris. However I am fully against a federalist government or provincial autonomy. It will not work in a country like Iran and will only lead to separation of the country. Federalism is only good for countries that don't have significant ethnical divisions between provinces. In places with ethnic divisions, it will lead to feelings of separation (for example Quebec and Catalonia).

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Well, i feel religion should be separated from politics and affairs of ur nation.

 

[Abii]

I hope for a secular Iran. But secularism on its own is not enough, Iran also needs free and democratic government. In my opinion the country isn't ready yet for full secularist government. There are still many religious people, especially in the country side and smaller towns.

I disagree with this part. Yeah there are religous people, but so what? Iran was a million times more religous during the Pahlavi era and we had secular govts for decades without much trouble.

Here's the fact on the ground in Iran: Almost every Iranian born after or around the 79 second arab invasion wants change (reform, revolution, small change, big change, whatever). More than 70% of Iranians alive today were born after or during that time. These are the people that we should be looking at b/c they're the future, not the older demographics. Who cares what they think. They can scream and point their guns at us all they want. Either alzheimers or bone cancer is soon gonna kick in. So **** em all. All the older gen Iranians are either commies, arab wannabe religous nut bags, American sack lickers...

It's time for the pragmatic, secular and Iran loving generation to finally take over.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

I disagree with this part. Yeah there are religous people, but so what? Iran was a million times more religous during the Pahlavi era and we had secular govts for decades without much trouble.

Here's the fact on the ground in Iran: Almost every Iranian born after or around the 79 second arab invasion wants change (reform, revolution, small change, big change, whatever). More than 70% of Iranians alive today were born after or during that time. These are the people that we should be looking at b/c they're the future, not the older demographics. Who cares what they think. They can scream and point their guns at us all they want. Either alzheimers or bone cancer is soon gonna kick in. So **** em all. All the older gen Iranians are either commies, arab wannabe religous nut bags, American sack lickers...

It's time for the pragmatic, secular and Iran loving generation to finally take over.

So what do you suggest should be done?

In my opinion we should take it slow and bring change through reforms. Immediate and drastic change (i.e revolution) can have unintended consequences and can also be hijacked. As Iranians know all too well.

 

[SenLin]

If there is a muslim country i could imagine where secularism would probably work, it's Iran.
From all the muslims i personally know, Iranians are the most educated, open & friendly ones.
One even left Islam from and became an agnostic, although she has kept it a secret from her family.

Well, i hope for a secular Iran too.

 

[TurAr]

In my opinion, in order Iran to be secular, a bloody revolution/conflict is needed like the one in Syria or even worse, or foreign military intervention... It seems to me that the regime is pretty strong and have considerable amount of public support on its back.

What do you guys think?

I believe secular Iran would be an important partner, or even ally of Turkey, moreover secular Iran would mean safer Turkey.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

In my opinion, in order Iran to be secular, a bloody revolution/conflict is needed like the one in Syria or even worse, or foreign military intervention... It seems to me that the regime is pretty strong and have considerable amount of public support on its back.

What do you guys think?

I believe secular Iran would be an important partner, or even ally of Turkey, moreover secular Iran would mean safer Turkey.

Iran has a bad history with revolutions. Last one didn't work out so well. Also if it involves a long bloody war, which costs human lives as well as damage to infrastructure, then count me out. I am still hopeful that it can be done through reforms. Also when successorship of Khamenei comes into question, that is when reformists can really put their foot on the gas.

In regards to Turkey, we have never been allies in the past. Don't see how a change of government will really affect that. However I do hope for peace and ending of these political games. I.E. Iranian alleged support for PKK and Turkish alleged support for separatist Azeris.

 

[Taskforce]

Maybe after a big civil war it would be possible. Otherwise no.

 

[Abii]

So what do you suggest should be done?

In my opinion we should take it slow and bring change through reforms. Immediate and drastic change (i.e revolution) can have unintended consequences and can also be hijacked. As Iranians know all too well.

That's fo sho. Rev isn't even smtg that's in our ability nor is it smtg people want. For a rev you need religous extremism, low literacy rates, general lunacy etc... Pretty much the same conditions that brought the arabs in power in 79. You can see all these conditions in the arab countries that are going through their so called springs.

Now Iran is in a much better shape compared to that time when it comes to all those things (higher literacy rates, people are much more sane, all the religous extremists are actually the ones in power etc...). Our side won't be able to outdo the apes in power when it comes to lunacy so a revolution is just out of the question. It can't work, it's not smtg people even want.

Frankly I don't even think we have to do anything. The next student uprising is around the corner. IR is getting punched in its ugly face left and right. They're taking a beating from the sanctions, the people inside are putting their own pressures... The sanctions are about to get worse. The people are getting more pissed off. Sooner or later damage control mode will kick in and they will introduce social reforms and that will be the start of the end IMO

In any case fuuuu IR - Go home arabs

In my opinion, in order Iran to be secular, a bloody revolution/conflict is needed like the one in Syria or even worse, or foreign military intervention... It seems to me that the regime is pretty strong and have considerable amount of public support on its back.

What do you guys think?

I believe secular Iran would be an important partner, or even ally of Turkey, moreover secular Iran would mean safer Turkey.

tbh the most that will happen is what happened in 2009. People that understand the current Iranian society know what I mean. The concept of a "bloody revolution" is now as foreign in Iran as the arabs in charge.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

The next student uprising is around the corner.

There have already been many student led demonstrations and all have been violently put down by the government. What makes you think next one will be different?

 

[Abii]

There have already been many student led demonstrations and all have been violently put down by the government. What makes you think next one will be different?

It won't be any different and they will again be put down.

but w/out them there won't be any reforms

every time the uprisings get worse and the cracks in the regime get bigger.

If we want reforms the arabs have to get scared. After every uprising inside fighting escalated in the regime. That's what we want.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

There have already been many student led demonstrations and all have been violently put down by the government. What makes you think next one will be different?

Student led demonstrations for what??

There are no news about this?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Student led demonstrations for what??

There are no news about this?

This one was a purely student protest:
Iran student protests, July 1999 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These two also had strong student support (many demonstrations on or near campuses etc):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–2010_Iranian_election_protests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–2012_Iranian_protests

 

[Abii]

Student led demonstrations for what??

There are no news about this?

Iran student protests, July 1999 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and then in 09 and 2011