The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[ChineseTiger1986]

You are the only one that really gets the big picture from the chinese members here, some get it partially, most are too caught up in the regional tribal thing to see it.

I am also surprised by your perception on the world geopolitics.

BTW, China will not let Russia to fall, since we also need them to assist us to build up the new banking system in the world.

 

[Carlosa]

Seriously do you really see me (or any chinese members) ever believe to retake those areas without a real war with USA and its allies/lackies? Havent you seen that China is continuing building up capabilities for decades to prepare for the scenario and moving foward at the same time. In fact nobody has expected any "luck" to begin with, those you are calling "peanuts" are the doorsteps of our country, as comparison to China they are at least just as important as crimea/eastern ukraine to Russia.

Yes, I see the rearming that china is doing, but have you noticed that, still, they are the number one military power never the less and that will not change any time soon.

Have you noticed that the americans are on constant war for how many years now? That's real training on the job, warfare is natural for them; how much warfare experience china have? China is just now starting to get serious about training. They are miles ahead of you. A I said before, don't underestimate them and don't overestimate yourself.

Anyway, these subjects are really peripheral, this is not the main argument here, lets not waste time on this.

 

[Jit]

it is great to talk big. Don't forget China is and has to support sanctions against Russia. If China takes false steps they will lose NA and European markets. Bye bye economic strength. Already having burnt $6T building ghost cities that nobody can use, already dealing with inflated local regional bank mistatements about 'preferential' cpc loans that will never come back now imagine if Shanghai container exports fall by even 30%! Dead in the watr is what China be if that happens. With such risk impact, I very much doubt China will or can do anything substantial for Russia.

Putin brought this on Russia - nobody shares his demented designs for novurussia. He will collapse soon as there are other generals waiting their turn.

OPEC under Saudi drive is not going to cut exports - they want to make the threats from NA shale to collapse. In the process, as they drive the cost of oil to under $60/bbl (Shale oil breakeven is >$70) investment in shale development has ceased in the US. Now imagine Russia - where breakeven is much higher (close to $100!) - they are losing 40% on every bbl they ship but cannot stop shipping because that is is the only cash flow they have.

Iran has made its peace with America and shipping. With the Cuba overture, Venezuela is on the wings to make peace and push more oil into US plus REFINED capacity! yesterday Venezuela complimented Obama for his Cuba move and is 'looking forward' to better ties!

Putin's dreams of creating a new Russia, dreams of re-enacting the missile crisis in the reverse - all that have been dashed to pieces.

And everybody who watched his 3 hour whining were convinced he was either drunk or something worse - turns out he was just recovering from a stroke.

The best and only option open to China is to use its considerable power and influence to advise and press Russia to focus on development and forget about global geo plays.

China's focus in the last two decades on economic development is a great model for Putin to follow. Russia has wonderful high tech resaerchers which China needs and that would be a mutual deal that will be good for them two as well as rest of the world.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes, I see the rearming that china is doing, but have you noticed that, still, they are the number one military power never the less and that will not change any time soon.

Have you noticed that the americans are on constant war for how many years now? That's real training on the job, warfare is natural for them; how much warfare experience china have? China is just now starting to get serious about training. They are miles ahead of you. A I said before, don't underestimate them and don't overestimate yourself.

Anyway, these subjects are really peripheral, this is not the main argument here, lets not waste time on this.

About the island dispute with the neighbors, it is not that we are so stingy to fight over these tiny islands, but it is about our territorial sovereignty.

If we abandon the territorial sovereignty on those islands, then this means that we could also abandon our territorial sovereignty on Xinjiang and Tibet. This will create a domino effect.

Same for Russia here, since they already have a such vast territory, and do you really think that they really care about those disputed islands with Japan? They also only do care about their territorial sovereignty on the grand picture.

As for those islands, we can accept the status quo and let them to have a share on the resources over there, but the fifth column of those nations should stop doing their master's bidding by repeatedly provoking China's overall territorial sovereignty.

 

[Carlosa]

I am also surprised by your perception on the world geopolitics.

BTW, China will not let Russia to fall, since we also need them to assist us to build up the new banking system in the world.

Ha ha, thank you. I've been around for a while and I do spend time reading and analyzing what's going on in the world. The china vs vietnam thing is actually a local thing and the stakes are not that big in the end, sure we feel strong about it and we can get aggressive, right? But the real thing going on now is far bigger than that and it will affect everything and everybody, so we need to keep the eye on the ball.

I lived in USA for many years, I see how the system works and what it does to people and the type of society that they try to create and I don't like that one bit. They are gradually doing the same in Europe and give them a free reign and they will impose that system in the whole world. I definitely don't want to see that.

 

[MarkusS]

Face reality. The west and china share the greatest interests with each other. Russia has nothing to offer. Its market is small. But what it has is rescources. Lets weaken them combined and simply take it for free.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Ha ha, thank you. I've been around for a while and I do spend time reading and analyzing what's going on in the world. The china vs vietnam thing is actually a local thing and the stakes are not that big in the end, sure we feel strong about it and we can get aggressive, right? But the real thing going on now is far bigger than that and it will affect everything and everybody, so we need to keep the eye on the ball.

I lived in USA for many years, I see how the system works and what it does to people and the type of society that they try to create and I don't like that one bit. They are gradually doing the same in Europe and give them a free reign and they will impose that system in the whole world. I definitely don't want to see that.

Obama has tried to bring Russia to his side during his first term, so he used to cozy up with Putin, but he eventually has failed to divide Russia and China.

And I am sure that Hillary and the neocons will be equally hostile to both Russia and China.

 

[Carlosa]

About the island dispute with the neighbors, it is not that we are so stingy to fight over these tiny islands, but it is about our territorial sovereignty.

If we abandon the territorial sovereignty on those islands, then this means that we could also abandon our territorial sovereignty on Xinjiang and Tibet. This will create a domino effect.

Same for Russia here, since they already have a such vast territory, and do you really think that they really care about those disputed islands with Japan? They also only do care about their territorial sovereignty on the grand picture.

As for those islands, we can accept the status quo and let them to have a share on the resources over there, but the fifth column of those nations should stop doing their master's biding by repeatedly provoking China's overall territorial sovereignty.

I understand your points, but you also have to see the points of the other side, everybody has the same feeling of sovereignty and all the emotions involved into that. I understand very well why china is doing what is doing and its actually just following the path that big powers usually follow, but have to also understand that there is a price to pay for that, mainly in terms of how you get perceived by the rest of the world. It would be nice for a new big power to change the way it deals with weaker countries and how it uses its power. Maybe its too idealistic to see it, but it would be nice. I believe that being fair and nice will get you more in the end.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I understand your points, but you also have to see the points of the other side, everybody has the same feeling of sovereignty and all the emotions involved into that. I understand very well why china is doing what is doing and its actually just following the path that big powers usually follow, but have to also understand that there is a price to pay for that, mainly in terms of how you get perceived by the rest of the world. It would be nice for a new big power to change the way it deals with weaker countries and how it uses its power. Maybe its too idealistic to see it, but it would be nice. I believe that being fair and nice will get you more in the end.

We will solve the island dispute with our neighbors via the political negotiation.

As long as we can keep our main territorial sovereignty intact, it is not worthy to fight against anyone through a physical war.

 

[Carlosa]

Obama has tried to bring Russia to his side during his first term, so he used to cozy up with Putin, but he eventually has failed to divide Russia and China.

And I am sure that Hillary and Neocons will be equally hostile to both Russia and China.

Hillary and the Neocons are extremely dangerous and they know they have limited time, the free ride is over man. They are going for it now and either they get stopped or is bad news for everybody.

We will solve the island dispute with our neighbors via the political negotiation.

As long as we can keep our main territorial sovereignty intact, it is not worthy to fight against anyone through a physical war.

Resolving disputes in a fair manner keeps everybody happy and friendly. If you turn your friends into enemies and make people hate you, how is that to your benefit in the future? You never know how they can get back at you in the future or how they can cooperate with your enemies. Live and let live, there is plenty of fish in the water for everybody.

 

[Raphael]

Face reality. The west and china share the greatest interests with each other. Russia has nothing to offer. Its market is small. But what it has is rescources. Lets weaken them combined and simply take it for free.

Lol, you act as if we were born yesterday. If Russia goes down, the West's crosshairs will be immediately re-directed towards China. Even if that is not Europe's intention, it is certainly the US', a fact that you blithely ignore even when many other members have brought it to your attention.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Hillary and the Neocons are extremely dangerous and they know they have limited time, the free ride is over man. They are going for it now and either they get stopped or is bad news for everybody.

I am pretty sure that they will try to ignite the powder keg via the disputed islands around China.

China has no real motive to start a war since we want to keep developing our economy and technology, but the neocons won't allow us to keep doing this.

The best way to disrupt China's development is to drag China into an endless war by igniting the powder keg.

 

[Carlosa]

Obama has tried to bring Russia to his side during his first term, so he used to cozy up with Putin, but he eventually has failed to divide Russia and China..

The simple truth is that Putin is way smarter than Obama (Obama is good at talking but not much else and he doesn't have balls) and he can see what the americans are up to and they've been seeing that for quite a few years, Actually, Putin was too nice for too long, he was also bidding for time, same as china now, but that usually never works, they can see it and they will hit you before you are too powerful. Actually, the americans have bad luck that they have to deal with Putin, once Putin is clear about the situation, he will be the most implacable enemy and he will prevail in the end and the Russian people are that way too as they have demonstrated in the past.

I am pretty sure that they will try to ignite the powder keg via the disputed islands around China.

China has no real motive to start a war since we want to keep developing our economy and technology, but the neocons won't allow us to keep doing this.

The best way to disrupt China's development is to drag China into an endless war by igniting the powder keg.

Yes, and they will use their economic levers to destroy the chinese economy same as they are doing with Russia now. They have a full bag of tricks.

Lol, you act as if we were born yesterday. If Russia goes down, the West's crosshairs will be immediately re-directed towards China. Even if that is not Europe's intention, it is certainly the US', a fact that you blithely ignore even when many other members have brought it to your attention.

100% correct man.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The simple truth is that Putin is way smarter than Obama (Obama is good at talking but not much else and he doesn't have balls) and he can see what the americans are up to and they've been seeing that for quite a few years, Actually, Putin was too nice for too long, he was also bidding for time, same as china now, but that usually never works, they can see it and they will hit you before you are too powerful. Actually, the americans have bad luck that they have to deal with Putin, once Putin is clear bout the situation, he will be the most implacable enemy and he will prevail in the end and the Russian people are that way too as they have demonstrated in the past.



Yes, and they will use their economic levers to destroy the chinese economy same as they are doing with Russia now. They have a full bag of tricks.

Sure, Putin knows that even he helps the US to defeat China. After that, they will still double cross him.

At least China has tried to break the US monopoly by creating a win-win game for everybody, whereas Russia can also benefit a lot from this new world order.

Also, China treats Russia as an equal partner, whereas the US treats everybody else as their slaves or junior partners.

 

[Carlosa]

Sure, Putin knows that even he helps the US to defeat China. After that, they will still double cross him.

At least China has tried to break the US monopoly by creating a win-win game for everybody, whereas Russia can also benefit a lot from this new world order.

Also, China treats Russia as an equal partner, whereas the US treats everybody else as their slaves or junior partners.

They always backstab almost everybody, once they don't need you anymore, off you go. They have their favorite subjects that they keep happy as long as they understand what their place is and they get an small share of the spoils, number one in that category: UK.

Ok, I'm going to sleep, we continue tomorrow.