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Made in Iran

Some questions
--Which country and company engine Iran use in
Khodro otomobiles?
--What is the export and domestic prices of upper models of these otos in terms of dollars?
--Iran copmanies can profit from oto production business? Because currently there are hard global rivalry conditions and many oto companies now desavantager.
That is why Turkey gave up from create his own an domestic oto brand. Besides, Turkish companies and authorities dont see a brilliant fate for otos work with internal combustion engine in the future. They see conventional engines will be replaced with electric engines in the future. So Turkey now is striving for create his own domestic otos that work with electric. If im not mistaken 2-3 years later %100 domestic produced electric cars will be drived in streets.

Engine>> Iranian and French engines
Price>>I guess it depends on the country and the model of the car. @haman10 do you know the max price of Iran Khodro cars?
Yes, they make huge profits specially from Internal Iranian car market, but they keep moaning to evade paying taxes and force government to keep customs import car tax rates high.
 
Engine>> Iranian and French engines
Price>>I guess it depends on the country and the model of the car. @haman10 do you know the max price of Iran Khodro cars?
Yes, they make huge profits specially from Internal Iranian car market, but they keep moaning to evade paying taxes and force government to keep customs import car tax rates high.
Some questions
--Which country and company engine Iran use in
Khodro otomobiles?
--What is the export and domestic prices of upper models of these otos in terms of dollars?
--Iran copmanies can profit from oto production business? Because currently there are hard global rivalry conditions and many oto companies now desavantager.
That is why Turkey gave up from create his own an domestic oto brand. Besides, Turkish companies and authorities dont see a brilliant fate for otos work with internal combustion engine in the future. They see conventional engines will be replaced with electric engines in the future. So Turkey now is striving for create his own domestic otos that work with electric. If im not mistaken 2-3 years later %100 domestic produced electric cars will be drived in streets.

Iran is putting 3 different engines on its cars recently : EF7 engine , TU5 and TU3 engines .

EF7 is called the national engine although some parts of it is produced by germen companies .

IKCO EF Engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EF7 produces 114hp for cars . its EF7TC variant produces around 150hp with turbo charger .

Gas-based EF7 uses such a high technology that Germen Bosch has payed interest in assembling it under license in germany . Although the company itself is supplying its ECU systems .

EF7 is used in some special Samands and also the newly inaugurated DENA .


TU5 and TU3 are JV with germen companies . the former produces 110hp @ 3500 (if i remember correctly )

there are some under-licence productions too , but iran had nothing to do with their design so i'm not mentioning them .

From what i hear the EF7 engine costs a little more than 2K dollars , i'm not sure .
 
Some questions
--Which country and company engine Iran use in
Khodro otomobiles?
--What is the export and domestic prices of upper models of these otos in terms of dollars?
--Iran copmanies can profit from oto production business? Because currently there are hard global rivalry conditions and many oto companies now desavantager.
That is why Turkey gave up from create his own an domestic oto brand. Besides, Turkish companies and authorities dont see a brilliant fate for otos work with internal combustion engine in the future. They see conventional engines will be replaced with electric engines in the future. So Turkey now is striving for create his own domestic otos that work with electric. If im not mistaken 2-3 years later %100 domestic produced electric cars will be drived in streets.
The reason Iranian car companies are profitable is b/c of the import restrictions that are put on foreign companies. Essentially, if you want to import a foreign model, you have to pay around 100% of its value in import tariffs. Plus, b/c foreign companies don't have points of sale in Iran, even if you were willing to pay that 100% tax on the car, you might not want to bring it in b/c warranty and service would be a major issue. That's why people have no choice but to spend the money on Iranian made models.

Prices are all over the place b/c of inflation. One month the country only has 10% of inflation, the next month it could be 55%! That's why it's hard to say. But they're not cheap either. The car companies don't have efficient production lines (as you can see from the picture posted in the past 2 pages) and b/c of the sanctions, the cost to secure loans is extremely high. They also can't buy parts as easily as foreign car companies can (again b/c of the sanctions). That means everything has to secured locally, which drives up the cost greatly and lowers the quality by the same margin. The high cost is pushed on to the consumer.

Essentially, without the import restrictions, they would all go bankrupt within hours. Today, nobody can compete with production lines and ingenuity like what you see in the video below. The money is in securing a niche corner and expanding it (i.e. Tesla).


 
Some questions
--Which country and company engine Iran use in
Khodro otomobiles?
--What is the export and domestic prices of upper models of these otos in terms of dollars?
--Iran copmanies can profit from oto production business? Because currently there are hard global rivalry conditions and many oto companies now desavantager.
That is why Turkey gave up from create his own an domestic oto brand. Besides, Turkish companies and authorities dont see a brilliant fate for otos work with internal combustion engine in the future. They see conventional engines will be replaced with electric engines in the future. So Turkey now is striving for create his own domestic otos that work with electric. If im not mistaken 2-3 years later %100 domestic produced electric cars will be drived in streets.

IKCO (Samand) is using three major Iranian engines of XU5, TU5, EF7 for its models of Pars, LX (different sub-models), Soren, Dena, Runna. Under license models like Suzuki Kizashi, Grand Vitara, all different models of Peugeot uses Japanese and French engines... Aside from Passenger cars, IKCO is producing %40 of all heavy, commercial vehicles and Trucks which brings them good amount of income. It is worth mentioning that at least half of IKCO production lines are Robotic now. Beside IKCO, there are many other car makers in Iran mostly in private sector. But the most serious IKCO rival in Iranian auto industry is SAIPA. Saipa, uses its own made (Tabriz made) engines on Tiba, Pride 111 (all models), New Tiba...but it also has some under license Japanese and Korean models under production, Renault Megan and Kia Cerato are the latest models...

Iranian Automakers has hit hard with tightened sanctions couple of years ago, resulting in some changes in their export plans. Currently, IKCO has export markets such as Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela, China, Turkey, some African countries and Kazakhstan. IKCO has foreign production lines for some of its models, including, Syria, Belarus, Venezuela, Azerbaijan, China and recently Iraq. Last year, IKCO has only exported 30000 units directly and made another 50000 by its foreign sites, bringing around $200 millions of income for this company.

SAIPA only exports its cars to Iraq, Syria and some African countries. Their total exports were around 50000 to 60000 cars last year, resulting in around $100 millions income when after sales and spare parts are included.

At the moment, IKCO prefers to export some of its newest models instead of selling them inside Iran as their export price is higher.

Best model of IKCO is Dena that is prices around $12000 to 13000 locally and $14000 to 15000 for export. This model is a very solid car, comparable to Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. The old models were not bad and not top but this new model is very worthy of the sum you pay for it.
Best SAIPA car is the NEW TIBA that is priced $ 6500 inside Iran and $7500 for export markets. This and other SAIPA cars are classified as CHEAP cars and this is why its models have a very good market in poorer countries.

Iranian car makers have an almost exclusive market inside Iran as Government has imposed a relatively high Tarrif on imported cars. Currently, all under 2500 cc cars need to pay %45 tax. Over 2500 CC has to pay more. Electric and Hybrid cars are exempt from Tax and Tarrifs. Iranian car makers have a vast market for their cars including over 1.5 million new cars for Iranian market and another 500000 to 1 million units for its targeted markets.

They were very profitable a few years back but since they impelled to invest more on R&D in order to make more competitive cars, they are no longer profitable and are on their feet by governmental subsidies. Another reason is because of SANCTIONS, car makers and thousands of car-part producers no longer has access to cheap Chinese contractors so almost all needed parts must be produced in Iran. This has imposed a huge sum on their back.

Electric cars, despite your understanding, are not the future. It is years now that world came to realize how impractical , electric cars are. We have limited resources for their batteries. It is very expensive. The electricity to charge cars has to be made by Coal, oil in most of its part, so it is not even economically friendly. This is exactly why major car makers do not focus on electric cars. Otherwise, the number of electric cars must have been the majority by now!!!

Future as it is known is to either focus on Natural Gas engines or to even more develop current Hybrid cars. It is widely believed that despite courageous steps of TESLA in america, this kind of cars have no chance of being popular due the world limitation in both Lithium or other Battery needed material, some countries has no will to cut oil companies and install SUN POWERED charging stations, some countries has no resources to implement all these changes, and some other reasons....

So, despite all your optimism, It is rather unrealistic to hope for such cars. There are a number of related examples that never succeeded in being popular despite their obvious advantages. Examples are, Tesla free energy, Gravity electricity generators and Water based fuels. The world that is under oil companies rule and most important leaders are connected to oil companies, it is very naive to bet on a future with electric cars in its streets!
 
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@scythian500

On what planet is Dena comparable to a Civic or a Corolla? That's a laughable statement. A Civic will run for 500,000 km without any issues and it's much better made, looks better, safer, better equipped, more fuel efficient and more powerful... Heck, both the Civic and the Corolla are more dependable then even German cars that cost 3 times as much. Dena is NOT comparable to the two aforementioned cars by any stretch of the imagination. It's laughable to even hint at such a thing. In literally every category Dena gets annihilated.
 
@scythian500

On what planet is Dena comparable to a Civic or a Corolla? That's a laughable statement. A Civic will run for 500,000 km without any issues and it's much better made, looks better, safer, better equipped, more fuel efficient and more powerful... Heck, both the Civic and the Corolla are more dependable then even German cars that cost 3 times as much. Dena is NOT comparable to the two aforementioned cars by any stretch of the imagination. It's laughable to even hint at such a thing. In literally every category Dena gets annihilated.
What I was meant was the size and level of accessories!!!!!
Btw, I tested DENA. It is one heck of a car comparing to previous models. It is made of better material. It consumes the same as Corolla and Civic if not lower!!, It consumed only 13 litters in a 210 km course, it has even more Horse Power delivered, It is very solid (all Samand based cars are solid... based on what a Russian test group was saying.. it compared it with a Logan), It has much better handling than both mentioned cars, It is a monster of comfort in inter-city roads and it has more accessories than most cheaper than $20K normally have...

I tested it recently... I took a 200km trip with it... I also have the experience of Corolla but heard about Civic from friend...

This is my conclusion and I respect others.. but to be in a fair stand to judge a car, you must at least have tested it by yourself!!!!
 
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What I was meant was the size and level of accessories!!!!!
Btw, I tested DENA. It is one heck of a car comparing to previous models. It is made of better material. It consumes the same as Corolla and Civic if not lower!!, It consumed only 13 litters in a 210 km course, it has even more Horse Power delivered, It is very solid (all Samand based cars are solid... based on what a Russian test group was saying.. it compared it with a Logan), It has much better handling than both mentioned cars, It is a monster of comfort in inter-city roads and it has more accessories than most cheaper than $20K normally have...

I tested it recently... I took a 200km trip with it... I also have the experience of Corolla but heard about Civic from friend...

This is my conclusion and I respect others.. but to be in a fair stand to judge a car, you must at least have tested it by yourself!!!!
I used to have a Samand for work. I liked that too. It was a reliable car and throughout the 5 years that I used it I never had a single issue with it.

But i can see that Dena has taken it to the next level. What is the power of the engine?
 
What I was meant was the size and level of accessories!!!!!
Btw, I tested DENA. It is one heck of a car comparing to previous models. It is made of better material. It consumes the same as Corolla and Civic if not lower!!, It consumed only 13 litters in a 210 km course, it has even more Horse Power delivered, It is very solid (all Samand based cars are solid... based on what a Russian test group was saying.. it compared it with a Logan), It has much better handling than both mentioned cars, It is a monster of comfort in inter-city roads and it has more accessories than most cheaper than $20K normally have...

I tested it recently... I took a 200km trip with it... I also have the experience of Corolla but heard about Civic from friend...

This is my conclusion and I respect others.. but to be in a fair stand to judge a car, you must at least have tested it by yourself!!!!
Please don't fabricate numbers

Fuel economy for the 3 main Japanese entry level sedans (liters per 100 kms):

Mazada 3: 5.8
Corolla: 6.2
Civic: 6.6
TOYOTA CANADA: Language
And Dena: 7.2 (which I don't believe b/c I can't find an independent test). But even this 7.2 is higher.

Now to say Dena is comparable to the other 3 in terms of equipment is fucking laughable. Dena doesn't even have side airbags as standard equipment (optional). It literally has seat belts, radio, CD player and that's it. Does it have Bluetooth? Live navigation? AUX jacks around the car? USB slots? Speed sensitive volume? Electric power assist steering (Dena has old hydraulic shitty steering)? Alloy wheels (no it doesn't)? Modern suspension and transmission (loool HELLL NO! Dena doesn't even have an automatic option!!!!!)?

Now let's get to safety.The Japanese models have driver side, passenger side, passenger front, driver and passenger overhead and seat mounted airbags. Dena has inferior quality front airbags, that's IT.

I left out half a million other things that Dena doesn't even have as extra options.

Better handling??!?!?!?!??!?!?! WTF! Literally EVERY part in Dena is inferior quality. It doesn't have better handling. Don't bull shit us.

More power? Standard Dena has 113 hp. Standard models of Mazda 3, Corolla and Civic have 155, 132 and 143 horsepower respectively.

The warranty on the 3 Japanese models is superior as well (means better quality).
 
Please don't fabricate numbers

Fuel economy for the 3 main Japanese entry level sedans (liters per 100 kms):

Mazada 3: 5.8
Corolla: 6.2
Civic: 6.6
TOYOTA CANADA: Language
And Dena: 7.2 (which I don't believe b/c I can't find an independent test). But even this 7.2 is higher.

Now to say Dena is comparable to the other 3 in terms of equipment is fucking laughable. Dena doesn't even have side airbags as standard equipment (optional). It literally has seat belts, radio, CD player and that's it. Does it have Bluetooth? Live navigation? AUX jacks around the car? USB slots? Speed sensitive volume? Electric power assist steering (Dena has old hydraulic shitty steering)? Alloy wheels (no it doesn't)? Modern suspension and transmission (loool HELLL NO! Dena doesn't even have an automatic option!!!!!)?

Now let's get to safety.The Japanese models have driver side, passenger side, passenger front, driver and passenger overhead and seat mounted airbags. Dena has inferior quality front airbags, that's IT.

I left out half a million other things that Dena doesn't even have as extra options.

Better handling??!?!?!?!??!?!?! WTF! Literally EVERY part in Dena is inferior quality. It doesn't have better handling. Don't bull shit us.

More power? Standard Dena has 113 hp. Standard models of Mazda 3, Corolla and Civic have 155, 132 and 143 horsepower respectively.

The warranty on the 3 Japanese models is superior as well (means better quality).

No doubt Corolla is a better car. Japanese make excellent cars and they have been making them since Iran was only producing mules for transportation, so they have much more experience. You also have to take price into consideration. A fully loaded Corolla (with things like bluetooth, live navigation etc) would cost well above 30 thousand dollars including all taxes, freight, fees etc. I do not know the price for Dena but I do not think it is 30 thousand dollars.
 
No doubt Corolla is a better car. Japanese make excellent cars and they have been making them since Iran was only producing mules for transportation, so they have much more experience. You also have to take price into consideration. A fully loaded Corolla (with things like bluetooth, live navigation etc) would cost well above 30 thousand dollars including all taxes, freight, fees etc. I do not know the price for Dena but I do not think it is 30 thousand dollars.

30,000$ ? Are you for real? Both Civic and Corolla are very cheap small cars. They are not even 20,000$, which is why they are in the lowest range of price of cars. I have driven both cars in past, and they are really close to be called perfect, specially Honda Civic.
 
30,000$ ? Are you for real? Both Civic and Corolla are very cheap small cars. They are not even 20,000$, which is why they are in the lowest range of price of cars. I have driven both cars in past, and they are really close to be called perfect, specially Honda Civic.

Here is Toyota Canada's website: TOYOTA CANADA: Language

With all accessories, options and platinum warranty the price of a fully loaded corolla including taxes, freight and fees is: $36,228.81 after a 1000 dollar discount (If you finance the car the price will be 1000 dollars higher, not including interest payments).

Well above 30 thousand dollars as I said.
 
Here is Toyota Canada's website: TOYOTA CANADA: Language

With all accessories, options and platinum warranty the price of a fully loaded corolla including taxes, freight and fees is: $36,228.81 after a 1000 dollar discount (If you finance the car the price will be 1000 dollars higher, not including interest payments).

Well above 30 thousand dollars as I said.

Yeah, maybe if one orders it to be made by gold, it reaches to 36K :lol:
With all accessories that @Abii mentioned, none of them reaches to 20K.
 
Please don't fabricate numbers

Fuel economy for the 3 main Japanese entry level sedans (liters per 100 kms):

Mazada 3: 5.8
Corolla: 6.2
Civic: 6.6
TOYOTA CANADA: Language
And Dena: 7.2 (which I don't believe b/c I can't find an independent test). But even this 7.2 is higher.

Now to say Dena is comparable to the other 3 in terms of equipment is fucking laughable. Dena doesn't even have side airbags as standard equipment (optional). It literally has seat belts, radio, CD player and that's it. Does it have Bluetooth? Live navigation? AUX jacks around the car? USB slots? Speed sensitive volume? Electric power assist steering (Dena has old hydraulic shitty steering)? Alloy wheels (no it doesn't)? Modern suspension and transmission (loool HELLL NO! Dena doesn't even have an automatic option!!!!!)?

Now let's get to safety.The Japanese models have driver side, passenger side, passenger front, driver and passenger overhead and seat mounted airbags. Dena has inferior quality front airbags, that's IT.

I left out half a million other things that Dena doesn't even have as extra options.

Better handling??!?!?!?!??!?!?! WTF! Literally EVERY part in Dena is inferior quality. It doesn't have better handling. Don't bull shit us.

More power? Standard Dena has 113 hp. Standard models of Mazda 3, Corolla and Civic have 155, 132 and 143 horsepower respectively.

The warranty on the 3 Japanese models is superior as well (means better quality).
The standard specs that you referred to are for North America. Here are the specs of the lowest Corolla model sold in Iran:

مشخصات فنی

It only has front airbag and no electric powered front seat.

Base price of Corolla in Canada is by the time you pick it up is above $16k or 480 million Rials. Which is exactly the same as Dena while you don't pay any GST or PST when buying a car in Iran.

Needless to say Corolla costs far more than that in Iran (almost $50k) so wise money is on Dena.
 
Yeah, maybe if one orders it to be made by gold, it reaches to 36K :lol:
With all accessories that @Abii mentioned, none of them reaches to 20K.

Well, you are known to be a liar but for others who are interested they can go on Toyota Canada website and see it for themselves. The most basic Corolla with manual transmission, no options, no navigation and not even Air-conditioning would cost about 20 thousand dollars cash including taxes, freight and fees. The cheapest new car you can buy in Canada is perhaps, Nissan Micra S, which costs above 13 thousand dollars. That is the lowest you can go on new cars.
 
No doubt Corolla is a better car. Japanese make excellent cars and they have been making them since Iran was only producing mules for transportation, so they have much more experience. You also have to take price into consideration. A fully loaded Corolla (with things like bluetooth, live navigation etc) would cost well above 30 thousand dollars including all taxes, freight, fees etc. I do not know the price for Dena but I do not think it is 30 thousand dollars.
30K for a Corolla? On what planet? Plus, nobody pays for freight and those other fees, specially not for economy cars. Only the tax. A simple 5 minute negotiation will take care of freight. You can even knock off a few percentage points off from the MSRP if you go to 2-3 different dealerships. Best yet, you can get a 1 year old model of any car and get it for 15% off new and avoid having to pay tax, freight and other fees. A 1 year old Corolla can be had for 15-20K easy.

American cars are even cheaper and better equipped compared to Japanese cars, but their quality isn't as good long term.

Well, you are known to be a liar but for others who are interested they can go on Toyota Canada website and see it for themselves. The most basic Corolla with manual transmission, no options, no navigation and not even Air-conditioning would cost about 20 thousand dollars cash including taxes, freight and fees. The cheapest new car you can buy in Canada is perhaps, Nissan Micra S, which costs above 13 thousand dollars. That is the lowest you can go on new cars.
You're including 5000 dollars worth of fees that NOBODY pays. They are there as a formality, b/c they must be there. A 2000 dollar freight can be knocked off, as I said in my other post, within 5 minutes of negotiation. The tax has to be paid, but if you buy used, you can avoid having to pay tax (you can buy something that was driven for a month and avoid the tax). Cars in Canada are actually expensive, but even at 20K, that's only 2 months of work for a person with a salary that's slightly above average.

The standard specs that you referred to are for North America. Here are the specs of the lowest Corolla model sold in Iran:

مشخصات فنی

It only has front airbag and no electric powered front seat.

Base price of Corolla in Canada is by the time you pick it up is above $16k or 480 million Rials. Which is exactly the same as Dena while you don't pay any GST or PST when buying a car in Iran.

Needless to say Corolla costs far more than that in Iran (almost $50k) so wise money is on Dena.
Okay, ignore the options. The transmission, engine, brakes, electrical, steering etc... are all still superior on the Corolla. A car with the quality of Dena would probably cost 5000 dollars here. You need to mention that too.

We're getting side tracked. The original argument began when someone stated that Dena is better than a Corolla. It clearly is not.
 
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