JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Aliph Ahmed]

Hi,

Paf is trying to under play the JF17 BLK3---that is why we don't see too much show & pomp at the dubai air show---. No plethora of smart air to surface weapons or air to ship weapons----just only dumb bombs with their kits--- .

Jeff is literally a monstrous aircraft below the 5th gen category---covering all versions of the 4.5 gen aircrafts and below on agiven day---.

With an aesa radar---data link---update EW warfare package---PL15 / SD 10 --and the HOBS missile for air to air and then some very capable air to ground & air to ship missiles---.

You pakistani posters are posting some not very intelligent comments regarding the show case & not understanding what is at stake---

Today---you are in competition with any and every american aircraft other than the F-22 & the F-35 on so very very close to equal terms that there are showing some serious concerns by the men in blue---.

For the knowledgeable people, there is no doubt that block 3 is a really potent fighter. However, it is mind boggling to see Pak bring the jet at Dubai air show and not show off. There should have been something new other than flying it like It has been flying in previous air shows. Waste of limited funds in my opinion.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

I believe that the Jeff BLK3 has already been marketed to the nations interested in it---.

There are NO OTHER nations interested in the aircraft---. The display is utilitarian and not a show off display---,

Everyone who know abo9ut the Jeff---knows what weapons it can utilize.

I also think that the US influence in pakistan----Paf does not want to be too obvious---.

Perhaps the JF-17 also doesn’t break the mold. If it could operate from unprepared airfield, it might have a chance to win more customers in Africa for example. A fighter tailored for customer needs, the way it was tailored for the needs of the PAF.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

JF17 Block III has achieved it's objective of matching F16 C/D capabilities which it was modeled upon. The Goal has been achieved

• Only other enhancement that can be done is just the Avionics package to 2023 Standard
• New Engine , increasing Payload

It is a bit unfair to compare it to F22 or F35 which are multi Billion Dollar development crafts


But the plane is sufficient for Local Air Space Protection

 

[CriticalThought]

It flies just like the block 2 so nothing new to see there in terms of it's moves. And private viewing for whom? Someone has to be interested first and those interested parties have most likely seen the jet at PAC Kamra already.
The airshow is for other future buyers to see and also just to create buzz. Also to showcase quality of the product. Overall the whole presentation inside the halls was lacking. PAF should have bought in a simulator like Lockheed Martin does with Block 70. There you could showcase it's new capabilities over previous versions

The Block-3 has been fundamentally redesigned from the grounds up

https://x.com/dafengcao/status/1098391214829723649?s=20

The ‘electro-mechanical system’ is an umbrella term that encompasses the entire fly-by-wire system including full-authority control of the engine, control surfaces, and the actuators used in them. This has immediate implications for the flight envelope. Also checkout messiach’s recent post hinting about changes in flight performance. Finally this also encompasses the ‘feel’ of the controls for the pilot through sensory feedback.

This is why I am waiting to see an actual video.

A private viewing can showcase the holographic HUD as well. A normal HUD paints information in 2D. The holographic HUD can paint waypoints, enemy combatants, and firing solutions in 3D.

Finally, with Live Virtual Construct, the aircraft IS the simulator. What you would do with a simulator, is now done with the full flight experience of the aircraft. LM is living in the past and you seem stuck to their backside.

 

[Gorgin Khan]

I only see qualities similar to F16 C/D , comparing Block III to F16 E/F would be far fetched

But the plane is respectable 4.5 Generation fighter Jet ideal for own air space protection

F16 E/F , payload carrige is higher and also coverage for flight/distance is higher


However with greater number of planes , it is enough for Pakistan's Local Regional Needs

Buhahahaha.....

 

[CriticalThought]

In terms of Block 4, I believe Block 3 and J-10C need to be fully inducted into Combat Commanders School. From there the requirements for the next version will emerge.

This is PAF’s first experience with delta-canard configuration. The aces in CCS will be putting it through its paces and the result will heavily inform PAF’s future direction.

Similarly, they can now compare legacy pulse modulated radars with single plate AESA and three sided AESA on J-10C. This will lead to input for the next block.

In previous discussions with SQ8 and messiach, we reached the conclusion that block 3 should be based on the B version. I still think this forms a valid base for block 4. The B version is a larger plane. Remove the back seat and all of a sudden you have reduced a lot of weight and created a lot of space. One use would be an EW jammer for a wild weasel version. It would be limited in power given the smaller size of thunder as compared to medium and heavy weight aircraft, so it would be a balancing act.

 

[Trango Towers]

I only see qualities similar to F16 C/D , comparing Block III to F16 E/F would be far fetched

But the plane is respectable 4.5 Generation fighter Jet ideal for own air space protection

F16 E/F , payload carrige is higher and also coverage for flight/distance is higher


However with greater number of planes , it is enough for Pakistan's Local Regional Needs

With asea radar and longer range missiles...if would sit in a block 3 jf17 anyway over the f16 c/d

Perhaps the JF-17 also doesn’t break the mold. If it could operate from unprepared airfield, it might have a chance to win more customers in Africa for example. A fighter tailored for customer needs, the way it was tailored for the needs of the PAF.

Name me a fighter that does that?

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,.

 

[MastanKhan]

I only see qualities similar to F16 C/D , comparing Block III to F16 E/F would be far fetched

But the plane is respectable 4.5 Generation fighter Jet ideal for own air space protection

F16 E/F , payload carrige is higher and also coverage for flight/distance is higher


However with greater number of planes , it is enough for Pakistan's Local Regional Needs

Hi,

First of all---we have to fight in our own space---. So---primarily----the primary focus of the aircraft is to manipulate those flight distances---.

Neither carrying more payload---or longer flight distance makes it a 4.5 gen aircraft---.

So---what is it technically / electronically that the F16---E/F has that he BLK 3 does not---?

 

[GriffinsRule]

The Block-3 has been fundamentally redesigned from the grounds up

https://x.com/dafengcao/status/1098391214829723649?s=20

The ‘electro-mechanical system’ is an umbrella term that encompasses the entire fly-by-wire system including full-authority control of the engine, control surfaces, and the actuators used in them. This has immediate implications for the flight envelope. Also checkout messiach’s recent post hinting about changes in flight performance. Finally this also encompasses the ‘feel’ of the controls for the pilot through sensory feedback.

This is why I am waiting to see an actual video.

A private viewing can showcase the holographic HUD as well. A normal HUD paints information in 2D. The holographic HUD can paint waypoints, enemy combatants, and firing solutions in 3D.

Finally, with Live Virtual Construct, the aircraft IS the simulator. What you would do with a simulator, is now done with the full flight experience of the aircraft. LM is living in the past and you seem stuck to their backside.

No it has not been redesigned from the ground up. That's a fallacy. Besides they are not even flying the Block 2 very aggressively, so a Block 3 doing the same display routine will be just the same thing.

I won't even comment on your sim stuff. Sure US is living in the past and PAC Kamra is breaking new grounds...while it's pilot is telling the press we won't even need to market it.

 

[CriticalThought]

No it has not been redesigned from the ground up. That's a fallacy. Besides they are not even flying the Block 2 very aggressively, so a Block 3 doing the same display routine will be just the same thing.

I won't even comment on your sim stuff. Sure US is living in the past and PAC Kamra is breaking new grounds...while it's pilot is telling the press we won't even need to market it.

What seems like a fallacy to you is just the depth of your own ignorance.

The list of new features on this jets require a thorough system re-design. Let’s recount features that increase the requirements on the data rate supported by the system bus:

1. AESA radar integrated with
2. 360 degree MAWS integrated with
3. Holographic HUD integrated with
4. HMD/S integrated with
a. HOBS missiles
b. PL-15 E
c. EW suite

On this system bus, the load of a quad redundant, 3-axis fly-by-wire flight control system has been placed which is not possible without upgrading:

1. The engine DEEC
2. The networking
3. The actuators powering control surfaces
4. The HOTAS to give the pilot tactile feedback

On top of all this the jet now features auto-pilot and auto spin recovery. You think you can take a normal block 2 and put ChatGPT into it to achieve all of this?

And then you actively make an effort to misinterpret what I am saying. I want the PAF to stop playing games and show us what it got. That implies not just flying the block 3 but flying it to its full capability. Your response reeks of Active deCeitfully-Induced Dung-headedness or ACID. Get off drugs it will save your life.

And yes, LM with their simulator for F-16 is living in the past and you don’t have the strength to free yourself from the mental slavery.

 

[MastanKhan]

1. AESA radar integrated with
2. 360 degree MAWS integrated with
3. Holographic HUD integrated with
4. HMD/S integrated with
a. HOBS missiles
b. PL-15 E
c. EW suiteThe engine DEEC
2. The networking
3. The actuators powering control surfaces
4. The HOTAS to give the pilot tactile feedback
On top of all this the jet now features auto-pilot and auto spin recovery. You think you can take a normal block 2 and put ChatGPT into it to achieve all of this?
I want the PAF to stop playing games and show us what it got. That implies not just flying the block 3 but flying it to its full capability. Your response reeks of Active deCeitfully-Induced Dung-headedness or ACID. Get off drugs it will save your life.

And yes, LM with their simulator for F-16 is living in the past and you don’t have the strength to free yourself from the mental slavery.

Hi,

You know that and I know that the Paf is not going to do it.

It showed off the Blk1 & BLK2's---so that it could prove to the world what it could do---.

Now with the BLK3---it has achieved what it needed to---now it feels that it does not need to prove anything to anyone till the D-Day.

 

[Reichmarshal]

JF17 Block III has achieved it's objective of matching F16 C/D capabilities which it was modeled upon. The Goal has been achieved

• Only other enhancement that can be done is just the Avionics package to 2023 Standard
• New Engine , increasing Payload

It is a bit unfair to compare it to F22 or F35 which are multi Billion Dollar development crafts


But the plane is sufficient for Local Air Space Protection

Block 3 is way ahead of capability then f16 c/d....
With its avionics package, weapons, esea radar n tweeked engine. F16c/d n all other non easa f16 stand little to no chance.

 

[GriffinsRule]

What seems like a fallacy to you is just the depth of your own ignorance.

The list of new features on this jets require a thorough system re-design. Let’s recount features that increase the requirements on the data rate supported by the system bus:

1. AESA radar integrated with
2. 360 degree MAWS integrated with
3. Holographic HUD integrated with
4. HMD/S integrated with
a. HOBS missiles
b. PL-15 E
c. EW suite

On this system bus, the load of a quad redundant, 3-axis fly-by-wire flight control system has been placed which is not possible without upgrading:

1. The engine DEEC
2. The networking
3. The actuators powering control surfaces
4. The HOTAS to give the pilot tactile feedback

On top of all this the jet now features auto-pilot and auto spin recovery. You think you can take a normal block 2 and put ChatGPT into it to achieve all of this?

And then you actively make an effort to misinterpret what I am saying. I want the PAF to stop playing games and show us what it got. That implies not just flying the block 3 but flying it to its full capability. Your response reeks of Active deCeitfully-Induced Dung-headedness or ACID. Get off drugs it will save your life.

And yes, LM with their simulator for F-16 is living in the past and you don’t have the strength to free yourself from the mental slavery.

That doesnt constitute a redesign from a ground up but just a midlife upgrade

 

[TheSolution]

Block 3 is way ahead of capability then f16 c/d....
With its avionics package, weapons, esea radar n tweeked engine. F16c/d n all other non easa f16 stand little to no chance.

F-16 has greater T:W ratio