IAF modernisation plan: Saab offers Gripen fighter jets under 'Make in India' with full control

[Ind4Ever]

I wouldn't have beleived this prior to May 2014 but Parrikhar's comments on the state of defence "we are in a mess" coupled with the fact that within 10 months of being in power the NDA scrapped the MMRCA procurement process in its entirity is certainly drawing me in that direction.

Isn't it curious that despite the MMRCA process being scrapped the current GoI has continued with the Rafale and not issued a seperate RFI/RFP or given up entirely and simply gone for a govt-govt deal from the US/Russia etc? This leads be to beleive that the IAF's selection process was 100% sound and the Rafale is by far the best plane on offer but between the down select in 2011 and point when the UPA's electoral loss in 2014 saw the deal still in no-man's land something went wrong and the previous DM was either unable or unwilling to address it.


Which islands exactly are you talking about?

Andaman and Nicobar and many other small islands in our IOR region. This could be something much needed Boost for our defence at sea

 

[Abingdonboy]

I believe our PM for trolling everyone should have ordered 56 rafales instead of 36.. that way the claim of his pet project would have got more credibility...

Well I think his "pet project" is the MII element of the Rafale deal which will massively overshadow this feeble 36 order, all told

A good question now to Wonder -
Sinzo Abe went to Benaras and did Ganga Aarti? His bag of goodies included $12 Bn HST - Bullet train project
Hollande should do something even more "pious" so that his bag includes a bigger value ...

Haha, well being the Cheif Guest of R-Day itself is hugely signifcant these days so one should expect some gifts for the President for making the long trip....

"Guest is God" in Indian culture, right?

Andaman and Nicobar and many other small islands in our IOR region. This could be something much needed Boost for our defence at sea

A&N islands are being devloped along these lines for sure

 

[PARIKRAMA]

One place France is messing with India is the recent submission to Autralian next gen sub deal. Their comments kind of wreak a bit of annoyance to me especially with India sharing such a big and strategic relationship with France in various fields. Especially in defence

Inspite of that France offered its crown jewel of stealth tech in submarine in conventional sub bid to Australia
http://dcnsgroup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DCNS-SEA1000-Insert-FINAL_low-res.pdf

So i am wondering when we have ordered 6 scorpenes and planning 3 follow on why they dont offer us such a hi tech sub but can offer Australia.

 

[It.is.all.mudi's.fault]

I don't buy it, thoughout this period the MoD was still returning unspent funds to the Fin Min year after year. It was NEVER a question of funds, the deal just wasn't in a postion to be signed, it was increidbly complex and the previous DM had refused to think out of the box. It is no coincidence that under India's longest serving DM defence procurements across the board came to a halt- the financial "crunch" is an all too convenient excuse for him and absolves him of any liability. It wasn't long ago and I can remember the issues very vivdly, the MMRCA was simply another casualty of that b@stard's signature "keep myself clean at all costs" policy along with the S-70B, RSH, AW-101, A330 MRTT etc etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again- he has blood on his hands.

Creative accounting sirjee, Creative accounting.

Budget is an statement of expected expenditure. No money is allocated in the budget; Parliament only authorize executive to use so and so amount of money for certain end. The money is allocated throughout the year as revenue flow in.So there is no returning of money. That term only means that there is some money whose spending was authorized by parliament, but was never spent. The money may not have been spent beacuse it was not there in first place as revenues fell short of expected.

Since GoI needed to contain deficit, as economy would have collapse if deficit was more than 7%, so GoI silently instructed MoD to go slow on purchases.

 

[egodoc222]

Well you should hear the full "truth" of the Gospel that some folks are unleashing under MII

Boeing says
+ We can have F18s under MII in India itself
+ Fact: Pls order 200 F18s for doing that... (with that money let me develop a new gen fighter for USAF/USN)

GE says
+ We will make Ge engines (404/414 uprated) in India itself
+ Fact: GE engine assembled in Chikan Plant India (TOT/Hot engine tech etc pending approval from US Senate)

Saab says
+ We will offer Gripen under MII
+ We will help in LCA program
+ Fact 1: Gripen uses GE derived engines so Engine part they cant help
+ Fact 2: Gripen is a direct competitor to our own LCA project..
+ Fact 3: LCA will cost 1/3rd price of Gripen and 100 odd orders to Gripen/Gripen NG means a bullet shot in the heart of LCA program (the end game over for LCA)


We are waiting for Eurojets to add their comments too... If they wish to add of course...

I think we shouldn't fool ourselves...no country is gonna give engine technology to us!!
Whole idea of mmrca is to build aerospace industry in india...I don't think it will compete with tejas...Indian air force has massive requirements...mig 21 mig 27 form chunk of the airforces inventory....they'll be for a decade or so....!

 

[Spectre]

I believe our PM for trolling everyone should have ordered 56 rafales instead of 36.. that way the claim of his pet project would have got more credibility...

A good question now to Wonder -
Sinzo Abe went to Benaras and did Ganga Aarti? His bag of goodies included $12 Bn HST - Bullet train project
Hollande should do something even more "pious" so that his bag includes a bigger value ...

@Abingdonboy

Sorry to disappoint you folks but the claims of 100+ Rafales are rather fanciful at the moment. Take it with a pinch of salt but the analysis behind my statement is as below

1. Finances - India has huge outlays planned in all sectors but chief of them being infrastructure and education. We all know that our budget already runs on a deficit which expected to further expand due to weak global demand, Fed rate hike resulting in withdrawl of easy money from Indian markets and upward trajectory of oil prices (they have already hit the bottom and only way forward is up). Considering Govt has to be smart about how it spends the limited resources in it's kitty. Emphasis would be given to the projects which has maximum value addition and job creation content in them - Make in India.

This ofcourse is decoupled from National Interest and Security aspect - S-400 fall in this category but sadly Rafales considered to be the Rolls Royce of Aircrafts dont. LCA and AMCA are where our destiny lie and till then Govt would do the bare minimum needed to sustain and secure our AF. The 36 Rafales form a part of that.

2. Strategic Interest - Lets look at what France has to offer in this arena to India - Not much is the sad conclusion. When we consider the balance of Power - China, Russia, US and Germany are the leading poles which have to engage. Among them US and Russia are the two which hold the tech edge in leading weapon systems and what we cannot make ingeniously have to be covered by them in order to keep the two positively aligned to Indian interest. There Frankly is no more room in Indian purse to keep the second string powers happy. If we look at the broader contours most of the big ticket deals have been with US and Russia barring some exceptions and the future trends for 10+ Billion Dollar deals would follow the same trajectory. Rafales being an exception as India cannot back out of the deal without loosing face. Many members have correctly stated that the 36 Rafales would assume the role of .elite squadron which would be used in specialised roles - ironical considering Rafale is supposed to be a bread and butter multi role fighter

Regards

 

[Pulsar]

Gripen NG is the boss!

It excels in performance, technology transfer and cost, not only for acquisition but also for maintenance.

• Total cost of Saab Gripen procurement x 1.5 = price of the Super Hornet procurement
• Saab Gripens x 2 = price of the Typhoon or Rafale
• Saab Gripens x 3 ¾ = price of the F-35

While the Gripen NG might be cheap in comparison, it can still boast impressive performance. The only downside is its payload and a single engine, which is the same as the Super Hornet engine (with some modifications by Volvo) which has proved its extremely high degree of reliability.

 

[Alphacharlie]

We hope that the deal will be signed during India's republic day where Hollande will be the chief guest.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @sarjenprabhu @The Huskar @Koovie @Nilgiri @Alphacharlie

My Friend, we certainly Need Rafale. But DASSAULT is a Very Shrewd Negotiating company....
Your Nation by the way was not keen for us to Integrate Russian or Indian Missile on the Bird.

In arms market - Money Talks Bullshit Walks - There is no concept of"Our Old Friend" or "Oh we Love your Nationals and Culture"

Take Care

 

[[Bregs]]

I think the main reason why MMRCA took so long is because Indian government ,since 2013 to early this year, had empty treasury. This is probably the reason why not many military systems were brought by India in recent past.

well yea this can be one reason too but still this is sort of absurd to take 5 yrs to sign a deal( If its signed in January end 2016) after selecting a aircraft way back in feb 2012

 

[anant_s]

YAWN.

Yet ANOTHER competitor who was NOT found to meet the orginal IAF technical criteiria now offering the world to India after having LOST-where were these "sweetners" the first time around?


Do these clowns think Indians are idiots? The Rafale is almost certain to be procured but the IAF would get into the highly cost-prohibitve buisness of inducting yet ANOTHER fighter type to serve in its inventory?Oh and on top of this the GoI would be ordering a fighter that effectively kills of the need for the domestic light fighter that they have already commited to >100 orders for. Please serve your BS somewhere else, dangling the "Make in India" carrot isn't going to blindsight anyone.


@PARIKRAMA @anant_s

almost become a trend to offer by manufacturers of MMRCA rejected bids.
Lets see when MiG 35 is also offered to be built in India.

 

[$@rJen]

We hope that the deal will be signed during India's republic day where Hollande will be the chief guest.

That's what i hope.. and that's the main reason he is been invited.

So finally French Wine is going to be readied, Time to taste it on 26th

 

[HariPrasad]

This is a very attractive offer and we seriously need to consider this.

 

[surya kiran]

I say, use baniya brain.

Make in India. Sell to Pakistan.

Everybody beri beri happy!

 

[#hydra#]

Too much sugar coating

Those stupid sab guys even produce a promotional video for gripen in which it shows as gripen is neutralising few su35s,that too without any casuality.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Full TOT along with full system and software control+help in the development of LCA and AMCA. That's too much desperation by the Swedish.

Man that's too funny I almost imagined my dog doing that.lol:

now all you need is a feild full of canabis, and your good.

on topic. it is a good idea. but theres so much going on , that it will complicate things and extreame weathers is a weakness of the jet, and those who said they should see who brazill finds it is wrong. brazill is a hot tropical country. typical standards for a jet. you may as well ask south africa on it opinion on the jets adaptation as it is very hot in south africa