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F16 ARE NO GOOD AGAINST THE US AIR FORCE

Since US knows the the frequency of their home made F-16s Radars, isn't it very easy to confuse it?

The same goes for AIM-120 data link, very prone to jamming by USAF. But aim-9m will be spot on.

Su-27 was lost to sa-6(?) IN Georgian war.

True.. but even these systems were built to survive jamming even if they were compromised, in a way American systems are so redundant that they planned for pretty much every contingency in a conflict. Which is why the aim-120 may not be 90 or 70 % effective against an American opponent.. but will still be at least 30 to 40% combat effective.
The same goes for the APG-66.

However, chances are.. if in the very unlikely scenario it comes to exchanging blows with the US.. F-16's may not be used alone.
There had been tactics thought up in case of such a scenario about eight to seven years back.

---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

another jf-17 stuff. You people looking low over mki advantages and high over jf-17 low rcs. I think awacs won't guide missiles. And mki carries more bvr missiles than jf-17. For awacs we have novator. . .

STICK TO THE TOPIC, you dont need to have the last word!!
 
The basic premise of this thread is an unlikely scenario.

Direct military confrontation that would pitch Pakistani F-16s against USAF is next to impossible, and even if it were to occur, the overwhelming superiority of US resources will ensure that the performance of F-16s, even if 101%, will not effect the outcome.

Hence the thread is pointless IMO.
 
The basic premise of this thread is an unlikely scenario.

Direct military confrontation that would pitch Pakistani F-16s against USAF is next to impossible, and even if it were to occur, the overwhelming superiority of US resources will ensure that the performance of F-16s, even if 101%, will not effect the outcome.

Hence the thread is pointless IMO.

Agreed, Any US force wont be just fighter assets..
There will be Massive EW support, Awacs providing picture, KH-13 sats providing live feed of every move of PAF jets from their pens to takeoff... last but not the least.. the many moles the US has cultivated over the years working hard to compromise our operational capability.
Its hopeless.
 
US has already crippled PAK F16 (Pods and Navigation uses US GPS which can be changed anytime in WAR scanerio)

Pakistan should get help from Chinese to decode these waves


AN/ALQ-131
ALQ.JPG


AN/ALQ-119 Jamming Pod

The Westinghouse AN/ALQ-119 jammer pod is currently carried on the F-16 and A-10, and previously carried on the F-4 prior to that aircraft's retirement. During the Vietnam War the ALQ-119 was carried on the F-4, typically frequently mounted on the inboard station, though subsequently it was frequently mounted on the Left Forward Aim-7 missile station. This noise/deception jammer covered three frequency bands. Current AN/ALQ-119 maintenance activities include programming of new threats and techniques to the system, system performance laboratory testing, threat and weapon systems analysis and technique development, and field support for various range testing of the system

AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Attack Pod

The AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Attack Pod provides self-protection for the F-16 combat aircraft and crew in a complex radar guided threat environment. Built by Raytheon E-Systems for the Air Force, the AN/ALQ-184 protects aircraft against radio frequency threats by selectively directing high power jamming against multiple emitters. In 1995 Raytheon's Goleta, California, electronic warfare operation, which builds the AN-ALQ-184, was combined with the company's E-Systems division.

Between 1989 and 1996 Raytheon delivered more than 850 pods to the US Air Force, including a 1993 award for 78 pods. During 1996 the US Air Force awarded contracts totaling $28 million to upgrade and improve the AN/ALQ-184 electronic countermeasures pod, bringing total value of that program since its inception to more than $1.2 billion. In April 1996 the US Air Force awarded Raytheon E-Systems a $5.2 million contract for the ALQ-184(V)9 Pod Program, under which Raytheon will modify ten pods to incorporate two previously stand alone self- protection systems. This integrated system will be produced by installing the AN/ALE-50 Towed RF Decoy into the AN/ALQ-184 ECM Pod. Additional modifications will enhance the combined performance of the pod and decoy. The modification provides the US Air Force with the most capable full-band self-defense suite available today. The system can be installed on nearly all tactical aircraft, with no changes to the airplane and will add a measure of effectiveness not available elsewhere. The ALQ-184(V9) production program continues the integration of the ALE-50 towed decoy system in a 3-band ALQ-184(V9) ECM pod. The ALE-50 towed decoy system cannot be carried on F-16 Block 25/30 aircraft without this modification.

In May 1994 it was announced that Raytheon will upgrade Taiwan's of F-16s with AN/ALQ-184 ECM pods. The contract, worth nearly $106 million includes 82 pods and support equipment and spares, marked the first foreign sale of the AN/ALQ-184.

LANTRIN AN/AAQ-13, AN/AAQ-14

lantrin.jpg


Type: Navigation and targetting system
Origin: USA
Mfg: Lockheed Martin
IOC: 1987
Lenght: 6,5ft
Diameter: 15in
Weight: 994lbs
Sensors: IR, TFR and Laser
Sensor range: 15NM
Field of view: 30deg

Low Altitude Navigation and Targeting Infrared for Night, or LANTIRN, is a system for use on the Air Force's premier fighter aircraft -- the F-15E Eagle and F-16C/D Fighting Falcon, as well as the Navy's F-14 Tomcat. LANTIRN significantly increases the combat effectiveness of these aircraft, allowing them to fly at low altitudes, at night and under-the-weather to attack ground targets with a variety of precision-guided and unguided weapons.

LANTIRN consists of a navigation pod and a targeting pod integrated and mounted externally beneath the aircraft.

The AN/AAQ-13 navigation pod provides high-speed penetration and precision attack on tactical targets at night and in adverse weather. The navigation pod also contains a terrain-following radar and a fixed infrared sensor, which provides a visual cue and input to the aircraft's flight control system, enabling it to maintain a preselected altitude above the terrain and avoid obstacles. This sensor displays an infrared image of the terrain in front of the aircraft, to the pilot, on a head-up display. The navigation pod enables the pilot to fly along the general contour of the terrain at high speed, using mountains, valleys and the cover of darkness to avoid detection. The pod houses the first wide-field, forward-looking infrared navigation system for Air Force air-superiority fighters.

The AN/AAQ-14 targeting pod contains a high-resolution, forward-looking infrared sensor (which displays an infrared image of the target to the pilot), a laser designator-rangefinder for precise delivery of laser-guided munitions, a missile boresight correlator for automatic lock-on of AGM-65D imaging infrared Maverick missiles, and software for automatic target tracking. For a Maverick missile, the pod automatically hands the target off to the missile for launch with pilot consent. For a laser-guided bomb, the pilot aims the laser designator, and the bomb guides to the target. For a conventional bomb, the pilot can use the laser to determine range, then the pod feeds the range data to the aircraft's fire control system. The designator is a four-digit PRF-coded laser that can designate for its own weapons or for other acquisition devices or munitions. These features simplify the functions of target detection, recognition and attack and permit pilots of single-seat fighters to attack targets with precision-guided weapons on a single pass.

The research and development program began in September 1980 with Martin Marietta Corp. [now Lockheed Martin, Inc.], Orlando, Fla., as contractor. Initial operational test and evaluation of the LANTIRN navigation pod was successfully completed in December 1984. The Air Force approved low-rate initial production of the navigation pod in March 1985 and full-rate production in November 1986. The first production pod was delivered to the Air Force March 31, 1987.

In April 1986, initial operational test and evaluation of the LANTIRN targeting pod proved that a low-altitude, night, under-the-weather, precision attack mission was feasible. The Air Force approved low-rate initial production in June 1986. Introduction of the LANTIRN revolutionized night warfare by denying enemy forces the sanctuary of darkness.

Originally built for F-15E and F-16C/D fighters, LANTIRN was modified for the F-14 to include a global positioning system and an inertial navigation subsystem in the AN/AAQ-14 targeting pod [the F-14 does not carry the navigation pod]. The modification was ordered in response to a Navy decision to phase out the A-6 carrier-based ground-attack aircraft by mid-1996. The Navy has ordered LANTIRN targeting pods to equip a total of 19 F-14 Tomcat Strike Fighters. VF-103, the first Strike Fighter squadron which became operational in June 1996, saw action in Bosnia and Iraq while deployed aboard the USS Enterprise (CVN-65). The LANTIRN pods flew a total of 1,575 hours on 750 sorties, with a mission availability rate of 93 percent. This LANTIRN upgrade is part of a broader initiative to add a ground attack capability and other improvements to 210 F-14 Tomcat fighter aircraft (53 F-14Ds, 81 F-14Bs, and 76 F-14As). The F-14As of VF-154 on the USS Independence (CV 62), normally forward deployed in Yokosuka, Japan, were equiped with LANTIRN prior to their deployment to the Persian Gulf, as ar the F-14Bs of VF-102 on the USS George Washington (CVN 73).

An upgraded software package, installed beginning in 1999, for the LANTIRN pod allhws the F-14 to more accurately employ weapons as well as record more accurate target coordinates. Using the Fast Tactical Imagery (FTI) system, the F-14A Aircrew can transmit digital images captured from the LANTIRN pod video to another Tomcat or to the Battle Group Commander. These images could be used for immediate attack by another aircraft, for damage assessment, for locating targets of opportunity, or simply for determining precise coordinates for targeting by other weapons.

The LANTIRN Bomb Impact Assessment (BIA) Modification Program, formerly known as the Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) Mod Program, consists of detailed design, manufacture, integration, and test of a radiometer, digital recorder, and portable data transfer device with the current LANTIRN Targeting Pod on F-15 aircraft. Software and hardware updates will also be completed on associated support equipment and image interpreter workstations. This modification would be done on existing LANTIRN targeting pods with no degradation in current mission performance and would be transparent to the pilot. A production/retrofit decision will be made following successful completion of the EMD program and authorization to proceed for retrofits of 43 Targeting Pods spread out over a three-year period. Delivery of the first production LANTIRN BIA Pod is anticipated to occur in January 2002.
The currently unfunded TESSA LANTIRN upgrade would integrate a 3rd Generation Staring Array into the existing LANTIRN Targeting pod. The upgrade will increase acquisition, identification and weapon employment ranges by a factor of four over the current 1st Generation Scanning Array in LANTIRN. This program will also incorporate an Automatic Target Cuer (ATC) to assist the WSO/Pilot in the detection and identification of targets in the viewing area. The ATC will provide a limited target recognition capability and display by class or vehicle type. The ATC performance is enhanced by incorporating an IMU for sensor stabalization. The upgrade improves standoff range (4-5 fold) for autonomous detection, acquisition, and attack of Time Critical Targets. It provides a higher probability of first-pass acquisition and attack of unsheltered mobile targets, enhances target re-acquisition following target hand-off from off-board sensors, and provides increased all-weather target acqusition , identification and assists in defeating passive CCD.

AN/ALE-40 Counter Measure Dispenser System (CMDS)

The AN/ALE-40 Counter Measure Dispenser System (CMDS) provides expendable counter measures stores and dispensing for multiple aircraft platforms. The AN/ALE-40 system is a means by which the pilot can release chaff or flare, depending on the threat type, to counter any homing of a missile to the plane. This is a very simple yet effective system. Chaff looks like millions of tiny strands of aluminum foil and each strip is cut to length to match the various wavelengths of the radar. Using chaff to combat radar was used as early as WWII and still proves very effective against nearly all radar threats. Flares are white hot magnesium that are designed to defeat a missile's infra-red (IR) tracking mechanisms.
 
Agreed, Any US force wont be just fighter assets..
There will be Massive EW support, Awacs providing picture, KH-13 sats providing live feed of every move of PAF jets from their pens to takeoff... last but not the least.. the many moles the US has cultivated over the years working hard to compromise our operational capability.
Its hopeless.

No, it is NOT hopeless.

Pakistan can be clever and avoid that scenario altogether, while preserving its interests. I am sure of it. :)
 
The basic premise of this thread is an unlikely scenario.

Direct military confrontation that would pitch Pakistani F-16s against USAF is next to impossible, and even if it were to occur, the overwhelming superiority of US resources will ensure that the performance of F-16s, even if 101%, will not effect the outcome.

Hence the thread is pointless IMO.

Just to keep the discussion believable, the USAF can be replaced by the Israeli AF. Presumably, if there's one foreign country to which the Americans would give F16 secrets, it is Israel. (Assuming the Israeli spies haven't already gotten the info.)
 
No, it is NOT hopeless.

Pakistan can be clever and avoid that scenario altogether, while preserving its interests. I am sure of it. :)

Well.. you do refer to Pakistan dont you?
Pakistani interests in Pakistan are very uncommon
There are PPP interests, PML(N) interests.. JuI interests.. Establishment interests.
Mullah interests, Liberal interests, Now even LGBT interests..
Occasionally something you hear of being done in Pakistan's interests was actually done for the same.

Now Im derailing the topic..

In any case.. A Pakistani US hostile engagement scenario, is fairly unlikely.. at least on a direct military to military basis.
 
Well.. you do refer to Pakistan dont you?
Pakistani interests in Pakistan are very uncommon
There are PPP interests, PML(N) interests.. JuI interests.. Establishment interests.
Mullah interests, Liberal interests, Now even LGBT interests..
Occasionally something you hear of being done in Pakistan's interests was actually done for the same.

Now Im derailing the topic..

In any case.. A Pakistani US hostile engagement scenario, is fairly unlikely.. at least on a direct military to military basis.

I place Pakistan above all the divisions you mention. :)

To get back to the topic, Israel would have no reason to attack Osiraq style in Pakistan, and the scenario that Developereo mentions above is quite unlikely too.
 
I place Pakistan above all the divisions you mention. :)

To get back to the topic, Israel would have no reason to attack Osiraq style in Pakistan, and the scenario that Developereo mentions above is quite unlikely too.

I believe the Israeli's would rather get the Indians to do it if they wanted to. Why get their hands dirty?
Plus, Osiraq was the first of Iraq's reactors.. compared to that.. even in 98.. Pakistan's nuclear program was very well developed and spread out.. with multiple redundancies. Even multiple raids like Osiraq would have done insufficient damage or caused any major setback.
 
Just to keep the discussion believable, the USAF can be replaced by the Israeli AF. Presumably, if there's one foreign country to which the Americans would give F16 secrets, it is Israel. (Assuming the Israeli spies haven't already gotten the info.)

Well, they won't..they declined to allow to change the radar to EL/2032 of Sufas.
 
When?. Last reports still indicate the APG-68(X) in use by the F-16I's.

I said the wanted to integrate their radar on Sufas but Americans did not allow it. I was replying to Deveopro's point that US allows IsSAF to extensively change their machines.
 
I said the wanted to integrate their radar on Sufas but Americans did not allow it. I was replying to Deveopro's point that US allows IsSAF to extensively change their machines.

They did however, integrate their own ECM , Targeting and misc other electronic equipment.. that even the US is unaware of.
 
The basic premise of this thread is an unlikely scenario.

Direct military confrontation that would pitch Pakistani F-16s against USAF is next to impossible, and even if it were to occur, the overwhelming superiority of US resources will ensure that the performance of F-16s, even if 101%, will not effect the outcome.

Hence the thread is pointless IMO.

No this is wrong statement.

Please read post #2

India, US, Iran, ISAF and RAWlibans are war adversary against Pakistan.

Do you think our blk-2 F-16 can hurt any TTP? or defend against Indian incursions? or TTP hideouts inside Afghanistan?

Any how the scope of this thread is beyond US and Pakistan.
 
Would IFF matter in a close dog fight using heat seakers? i mean didn't one of our own birds went down coz of friendly fire? i know in the age of BVR this point would not matter a lot but still wouldn't PAF be able to target a USAF bird using a heat seaker?
 

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