Pakistan may study other fighter options as US asks Pakistan to make full payment for F-16 purchase

Umair Nawaz said:

i didnt talked abt army but military as a whole specially that airforce of our and its current command which is from the batches of 80s era. That was the time when f16s came in this region and they have a strange fascination from aircraft even today. That fascination has to end ASAP. I suggest to go the Musharaf's route. Where he himself forcefully signed deals of ZDK03 AWACS and gave them to operate. The problem in this f16 deal is also quit similar. We need the forceful people from high ups to buy themselves the weaponry and order them to induct.

Now coming back to topic of our discussion. The military would have to take the leading steps here because it is about weaponry procurement that we r discussing here, Its the military after who will get them either American weaponry or Russian, Chinese weaponry.

Regarding politicians n government, look my friend even u know what they are and what their interests r. They wont move until their own civilian AIDE or investments, accounts get freeze or confiscated. There is already a lot of hue n cry and off shore accounts n investments, but know and i know what will happen in the end of the day.

They have their own vested interests and they will do their efforts only accordance to those interests. They have never came to politics for making our country a better nation or for development and economics, they came to make their own bank accounts businesses to grow by public money.

Its futile to expect anything good from them. We all must work for what they r not interested in working.

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The problem is that is PAF chief goes behind everyone's back and try to sign a deal with Russia, will it be possible? It wont be.
I agree that the whole military leadership MUST understand that on going strategic shift in the regions and assure you that they are. It was the military leadership that pushed for Russian helos. It was them who showed interest in Russian planes. Ministers ko too raat ka khanay kaa aagy kuch nazar he nai aata, i am sure you do not think that such moves were planned by politicians. Yeh is qabil hotay tu aur kya chahea tha bahi.

The point i am trying to make is that we wont be able to reap the benefits from the on going developments UNLESS we get our foreign policy straight and work on diplomacy. It is sort of once in a life time opportunity and we are just letting it go by. THE GOVERNMENT need to play its part as that is essential. Without that, military wont be able to do much. When they do do much, the media start crying! aur hm be phr musharaaf kutaa musharraf kuta krty hann

Pakistan to decide how it wants to fulfill its defence needs: US
By News Desk
Published: May 4, 2016
A file photo of F-16 jet fighter.

The United States on Wednesday said it is up to Pakistan to decide how it wants to fulfill its defence needs.

“It is up to Pakistan to speak to how they will fulfill their defence needs. These are obviously sovereign decisions that Pakistan has to make,” Kirby said during his weekly press briefing.

Kirby’s statement comes a day after Pakistan expressed disappointment over Congress’ unwillingness to fund F-16 sale to Pakistan. Pakistan has indicated it may buy F-16 fighter jets from somewhere else if financing for the state-of-the-art planes is not arranged as Washington told Islamabad it would have to finance the purchase itself.

Pakistan will get F-16s from other countries if funding not arranged, Aziz tells US

When asked to comment on Pakistan’s description of US aid as ‘peanuts’, Kirby said, “I would again say that it is an important relationship and we’re going to continue to support that relationship and look for ways to improve our cooperation as best we can.”

“It is a relationship we have absolutely no intention of losing focus on or diminishing in any way,” US State Department spokesperson John Kirby said when asked if US unwillingness to subsidise the F-16 purchase will affect bilateral relations.

Sartaj Aziz, the prime minister’s adviser on foreign affairs, admitted on Tuesday that arranging funds for eight F-16s Pakistan intend to buy from the US was an issue. “The US has decided to sell F-16s to Pakistan. The only issue is now financing,” Aziz told reporters at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad (ISSI).

Pakistan will consult with the suppliers of F-16s regarding the alternates of financing. “If arrangement is made, we will buy F-16s from the US, otherwise we will have to look for planes somewhere else,” he added.

US administration supports F-16s for Pakistan, says official

Aziz’s comments came a day after the US State Department said it had asked Pakistan to fund the whole purchase of F-16 fighter jets on its own. “Given Congressional objections, we have told the Pakistanis that they should put forward national funds for that purpose,” spokesperson John Kirby told a weekly press briefing.



Previously, Islamabad was supposed to pay only $270 million while the Obama administration was to pay $430 million in subsidy through the US foreign military financing budget for the fighter jets.

US lawmakers block subsidy for F-16 deal

However, during a recent Congressional hearing, US lawmakers made it clear that they would not allow the Obama administration to use American funds for the deal. The decision to stop the subsidy came last week after hearing of a subcommittee on Asia and Pacific of the US Congress Committee on Foreign Affairs.

At the hearing, US lawmakers accused Pakistan of not doing enough to fight militants and expressed concerns that the jets could be used against India while also raising objections to using American taxpayers’ money to fund the sale.

Darth Vader said:

1st proven air craft
2 years of experience by pilots and. Air crew
3 cheap
4 capable modern
5 easily available at low time frame
6 big market
7 can work with majority of systems in use of pakistan armed forces
8 will be operational in no time
List goes on and on

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Means absolutely positively nothing as this bird will be sanctioned the day war start and without spare parts this is just giant piece of aluminum sitting on tarmac.

Darth Vader said:

Now if you go for a shopping with 700million dollars on a 4++gen air craft market

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Yeah what will happen, please, explain. You didn't finish the 700 million dollars threat.

Darth Vader said:

you people are the worst kind of idiots
Because even when you get a buy a brand new sports you cant just start drag racing it needs time experience or you will end up messing it up big time

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Fortunately, idiots like us, have access to Genius and obvious forward thinker like you, who is born with experience to do everything, us the idiots, have to do it the old fashioned way and learn by trying and get experience doing so.

I take it, when we got these birds for the first time our pilots had years of experience flying them, right, the infrastructure was in place, so didn't have any issue assimilating them, otherwise it would have been stupid to get them.

Chinese, Indians and other respected nations investing billions to move forward are stupid they should stick with what they know and settle.

weqi said:

this is the definition """""not connected with religious or spiritual matters""""""""""""

according to you FRANCE VALUES = Liberty + fraternity + equality + FORCED RESTRICTION HIJAB

FRANCE DON'T MEET CRITERIA

INDIAN VALUES = MASS KILLING OF MUSLIMS IN GUJRAT

INDIA IS FAR AWAY FROM THIS DEFINITION

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I am lost for words ask any French person what French values are

There is plenty of F16's in the world some are in very good condition (countries replacing them with F-35) why can't Pakistan go for those?

Send them to Turkey for upgrades and Bob's your uncle job done!

Kim Philby said:

Make peace with India.....You won't need anything to buy (weapons)......nor will require the Army to maintain!!

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We extend the same offer to you .... with all the 'additional benefits' ....

'Gurru' ...

Arsalan said:

The problem is that is PAF chief goes behind everyone's back and try to sign a deal with Russia, will it be possible? It wont be.
I agree that the whole military leadership MUST understand that on going strategic shift in the regions and assure you that they are. It was the military leadership that pushed for Russian helos. It was them who showed interest in Russian planes. Ministers ko too raat ka khanay kaa aagy kuch nazar he nai aata, i am sure you do not think that such moves were planned by politicians. Yeh is qabil hotay tu aur kya chahea tha bahi.

The point i am trying to make is that we wont be able to reap the benefits from the on going developments UNLESS we get our foreign policy straight and work on diplomacy. It is sort of once in a life time opportunity and we are just letting it go by. THE GOVERNMENT need to play its part as that is essential. Without that, military wont be able to do much. When they do do much, the media start crying! aur hm be phr musharaaf kutaa musharraf kuta krty hann

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Then what do we do? aisy he hath main hath rakh kar or internet forums pr apni frustrations nikaalty rahain?

kya karain phir, koi pakka solution ha ap kay pas?

Pakistan have to pay for F-16

LeGenD said:

On what grounds you are assuming that J-10 is much better then latest variants of F-16? Do you think that PAF have not evaluated J-10? They have and still chose JF-17 Thunder.

PAF wants the latest variants of F-16 because they have capabilities that JF-17 Thunder does not have.

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Like what capabilities? We wont get latest block anyway. Its logistics and spare parts delivery is unreliable. They can shut down your f16 in mid air. They already told you that you can't use them against india and they assured the same to Indians.
In block III Jf17, u r getting aesa. F16 don't have it, no maintenance issues with jf17, with f16 u may have to beg for spare parts from India if Lockheed martin shifts to India. Jf17 can carry out nuclear, ground, air attack, bvr capable, anti ship attack, fire cruise missile. Can u do it with your beloved block 52s. Production rate of jf17 can always be taken up to 50-100 a year. U can never get more than 8-16 f16s a year. 16 f16s vs 50 jf17, jf17 will win. No platform is worth sh1t if its spare part supply line and freedom of use can't be ensured.

Remember what Russian tanks did to formidable tiger tanks of Germany in ww2. Why? Russian tanks, simple in design kept on rolling out of factories at a faster rate as compared to complex tiger tanks of Germany.

Work on jf17, improve it, get aesa radar, get a Damocles or aeslan Turkish targeting pod and JF17 in large numbers will give Indian fighters run for their money.

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has conveyed to the United States that it does not have the money to buy F-16 jets from its resources and has cautioned that if the stalemate over funding is not resolved it may consider buying some other fighter aircraft to meet its needs.

According to a diplomatic source, this was conveyed by Finance Minister Ishaq Dar to US Ambassador David Hale at a meeting at the Foreign Office.

The meeting was held last week before the controversy of procuring the F-16s became public.

Adviser on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz, PAF Chief Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman and Special Assistant Tariq Fatemi also attended the meeting.

Initially, the deal for the sale of eight F-16s to Pakistan was to be partially funded through the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) with the US providing $430 million, while the remaining $270m was to be paid by Pakistan from its national resources. But after the Congressional hold on subsidising the sale through FMF, the US administration asked Pakistan to make a commitment to buy the jets from its own money.

But the Pakistan government refused to make any pledge unless the restriction on financing through FMF was lifted.

There is a perception in some quarters that the government made a mistake by refusing to make the commitment for the purchase of the fighter aircraft because doing so would not have precluded the option of financing through FMF in future.

The Pakistani commitment, it is believed, would have eased Congressional pressure on the administration, besides allowing the process for approval and appropriation of the entire FMF package to move forward. The process is being currently held back because of the very intense debate on the financing of the F-16 deal.

In view of the lingering impasse, the administration has now started emphasising on the Congress to focus on the package instead of getting stuck with one of its elements.

The FMF money for this year has to be approved and appropriated before September 30 or else the funds would remain no more available.

Adviser on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz, in a media interaction on Tuesday, said Pakistan was working with the “suppliers to see what could be alternative sources of financing”.

Mr Aziz said that Pakistan would only buy the F-16s if some arrangement was worked out “otherwise we will look for some other (fighter) aircraft”.

He, nevertheless, looked optimistic about the issue being resolved and said: “We’ll be able to find some way out”. The message from the adviser looked very calculated.

It should be recalled that Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker, whose committee has jurisdiction over foreign arms sales and who is maintaining the hold on the financing of the deal, had while voting in favour of the sale of the jets to Pakistan in March noted that he did not block the deal so that Islamabad is not driven towards Russian- or French-made jets.

Mr Corker had then said that he would like to maintain US leverage over Pakistan, which he described as uncertain ally, through its continued reliance on the US for maintenance of F-16s.

Despite approving the deal, Mr Corker withheld its financial component.

Among the key reasons behind the Congressional hold are concerns that Pakistan has not taken enough action against the Haqqani network; jail sentence for Dr Shakeel Afridi — the physician who had cooperated with the US in tracking Osama bin Laden; and fears about Pakistani nuclear programme.

Published in Dawn, May 4th, 2016

Spectre said:

Something you would bet money on?

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Yes.

This isn't the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last. The US will find a way, especially since Lockheed Martin is actively lobbying for the deal to go through.

That Guy said:

Yes.

This isn't the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last. The US will find a way, especially since Lockheed Martin is actively lobbying for the deal to go through.

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That's cool. Depends though on risk/return. If 8 F-16s are worth the headache.

I have no doubt that if LM puts all their big guns in DC on the case, Pakistan will get it's F-16s.

Spectre said:

That's cool. Depends though on risk/return. If 8 F-16s are worth the headache.

I have no doubt that if LM puts all their big guns in DC on the case, Pakistan will get it's F-16s.

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You would think LM lobbyist would be pushing the deal through Congress from day one, but seem to be coming up short. But until the budget bills are passed, there is still a chance the funding will come through.

cloud4000 said:

You would think LM lobbyist would be pushing the deal through Congress from day one, but seem to be coming up short. But until the budget bills are passed, there is still a chance the funding will come through.

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May be or may be not but the trouble Pakistan has to get these kind of deals passed will increase progressively until there are no more deals.

Spectre said:

May be or may be not but the trouble Pakistan has to get these kind of deals passed will increase progressively until there are no more deals.

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This is already happening. The budget US allocates for Pakistan -- civilian and military -- is getting smaller each year, and Congress is adding more restrictions as well.