PAF to get extra F-16 Block-52+ ?

[IrbiS]

More than at any time I am now convinced that the paf pursuit of more f16 fighters is down to two things.

Firstly it is more capable s fighter than the the thunder even the block 2

Second it is available at much lower cost than both the thunder and the j10.

There can be no other logical reason for buying military hardware from a country that will not back in s war with India.it does not make sense. USA could easily sanction you at any moment proven time and time in history.

First of all, F-16 is our love in fourth generation fighters. It proved its metal both in war and in peace time.We know it better than many others and can give a hard time with our best drivers to any comparable machine and IAF or I should say both IAFs know that well. It is in fact more capable than even block 2. But it doesn't mean that there is any thing wrong with Thunder, Falcon is a mature platform while JF is still a kid. It need a little more time to grow up. If you give it cutting edge weaponary and sensors today, it 'll put our falcons to shame.

J 10 is simply not available as long as it carries AL 31

By the Time WS 10 matures it will be another five years and the Twin engine
J 31 with RD 93 will be available

And as far as comparision of Jf 17 Block 2 with F 16 is concerned ;
there is no comparision really

We dont even need J-10 for now. One of the reasons for this high performance delta was to counter MMRCA threat which hasn't even been signed yet. Even if India Signs it right now it 'll take time to materialize, by then JF would be what we need it to be by giving the capabilities that we wanted in J-10 plus hopefully more Falcons would have arrived.

 

[araz]

Well PAC has a mirage rebuild factory..and although for mirage 3/5 it can always be modified from mirage 3/5 rebuild to Mirage 2000-9 maintenance and overhaul factory.. But yes you are right that is the reason PAF didn't go for the purchase. Plus IAF has been operating the platform long enough to know how to counter it at ease. Just the same reason IAF didn't buy F-16IN the point being the same, we know more about F-16 based on experience

I think what you are suggesting regarding the M3/5 rebuild factory is a non starter. The whole factory would need to be re jigged for M2 K9 which is the problem. The M2K9 is a totally different platform as compared to M3/5.
Araz

 

[araz]

Sir i too am against dependence on USA, but JFT program is running late. Imagine the good that a squadron of MLU or New f-16s would do. You can replace those pilot killing Mirage and f-7 squadrons early. JFT will soldier on, but why wait another 4 years for that capability?

Dost.
My post was regarding the possible purchase of F15/18. I fully agree that Mlued 16s are the only viable option for us for the foreseeable future.
araz

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@araz
If ever PAF chose to induct M2k-9 would they find the machinery to rebuild? The production line closed long time back.

 

[Donatello]

Dost.
My post was regarding the possible purchase of F15/18. I fully agree that Mlued 16s are the only viable option for us for the foreseeable future.
araz

Sir F-15s and 18s would never come. Better off buying J-11/16s from China which can be tailored if going the twin engine way. PAF will probably just stick with F-16s and JF-17s and go with twin engine J-31s.

 

[niaz]

How I pray, oh how I pray that your government severs all military contact and terminates all military sales to Pakistan. How I pray a return to the Pressler sanctions which forced us to learn self reliance.......and just when we had begun to understand the golden principle, the sanctions were lifted.

It was as if your Government waited for us to take our last learning step towards independence from US to take us down, back to the old days.

Oh how I pray!

Honourable Sir,

I sincerely admire your sentiments but these reflect an emotional outburst devoid of common sense.

Re-imposition of Pressler Amendment could also result in all NATO countries following suite. If you care to look at the current inventory of Pak armed forces; you would realize that in addition to the tens of billions of dollars needed to replace the same with equivalent non-US hardware, it would also take hundreds of thousands of man-hours in retraining of the maintenance and operating staff. It would also means reliance on Chinese & Russian equipment instead.

Remember at one time Communist Vietnam & China were great friends but went to war in 1979. I remember ‘Hindi Chini bhai bhai’ slogan in the early 50’s as well but 1962 there was a large border war. Something similar happened between Soviet Union and China. What happens when Pakistani & Chinese national interests clash?

True patriotism does mean shooting yourself in the foot just to spite your enemy.

 

[Sinnerman108]

F-16 BLK 60 is NOT in USAF.

It was produced by U.A.E.

Stop spreading misinformation.

FOR the UAE. not by UAE.

 

[IrbiS]

F-16 BLK 60 is NOT in USAF.

It was produced by U.A.E.

Stop spreading misinformation.

UAE funded its development and will get royalties if sold to any other nation. U.S are too pretty much capable.

 

[HRK]

Honourable Sir,

If you care to look at the current inventory of Pak armed forces; you would realize that in addition to the tens of billions of dollars needed to replace the same with equivalent non-US hardware,

though my post is not directly related with the debate you are having with @Mav3rick but I think I can post something which might be of your interest related to this point .... hope you would reconsider your 'tens of billions of dollars' statement ...

 

[Neptune]

f-16s are too expensive over 100 million dollars

and what will be the replacement for those f-16s? it cant be f-35, turkey only intends to buy 100. its likely that turkey will also push the f-16 beyond 2030. financing any other aircraft will be difficult for turkey too. look how difficult it is for india for just 120 MRCA

Nope. We have our own 5th gen fighter program called TF-X

 

[Neptune]

I don't think we will still be buying falcons in 2024. If FC-31 comes online the way we expect it to, we will replace falcons with them. For long term replacement of JF-17s though if Turkey goes for a single engine TFX we might join in.

I see. TAI pushes for P&W F-135 whereas the Air Force asks for a twin-engine variant using Eurofighter Typhoon's engines.

 

[Syed Hussain]

Nope. We have our own 5th gen fighter program called TF-X

Will be too expensive without partnership from another country. Initial expenditure estimate is of 20 billion dollars which can go even further up.

 

[Neptune]

Will be too expensive without partnership from another country. Initial expenditure estimate is of 20 billion dollars which can go even further up.

They allocated 50 billion dollars for the program + aircraft orders

 

[araz]

@araz
If ever PAF chose to induct M2k-9 would they find the machinery to rebuild? The production line closed long time back.

They might be able to do so but the question is at what cost and to what benefit. The cost in retooling rejigging and getting spares will be so high we will crumble under the financial pressure. The next question is to what advantage when we do not know the platform and will have to develop new tactics on it which will defeat the very purpose of having them.
The question that I dont have an answer to is what happens when the sake platform loaded with the same missile comes face to face. Will the radars recognize each other as foes and fire their missiles. I know PAF has recently evaluated the option in 2005-06 and not gone for it.
The other more pertinent question is whether we can change its engine to RD 93 and save some costs some way as well as programme it to use AMRAAMS and AIM9S instead of the french options but again this would mean more expenses on a platform with minimal utility. So all in all it is a lost cause I am afraid.
Araz

 

[AFlover]

I like ur analysis, should try to rely on own mussles as much as possible, no one remains granted forever as long as common interest exist