Z-10 & Z-19 Combat Helicopter News & Discussion

[indian_foxhound]

sad to hear this. But need to accept the fact... Opsss they gonna wake up from wet dreams

 

[sweetgrape]

@Ankit_Pujari How can any Chini guy reply on this coz they know what CPC told them or information from some part of external world.

Right, we chinese all are "brainwashed" by CPC, we "Ignorant" Chinese build China better than "Smart" and "Democratic" India, Oh, Sorry, as a Chinese, How could I know Indian is "Smart" and "Democratic"?



And, seems much indian is "interesting" this article, and talk loundly here, wait for more indian, see whether can find more "interesting" indian comments about "truth", quote more article from western sites about "truth", "learn" from it, hope they can make "creative" and "funny" Comments like many Chinese forums, can make me laughing because of comments itself, hehe!

 

[qwerrty]

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Now, my Chinese brothers, please don't argue saying they were merely design consultants. The secret nature of the collaboration precludes possibility of them being mere design consultants. That argument won't cut ice among the sensible.

i don't see why they cant say that..?

Dubbed Project 941, the concept was initially designed in 1995 and developed by China into the WZ-10/Z-10.

 

[AViet]

Upon hearing this news, Premier Singh will jump in cheer and immediately phone President Obama "Sir, the WZ-10 is designed by the Russian, not by Chinese themselves. Please, please, please treat us with respect and fear, as you are doing with the Chinese, because they can not design the WZ-10, just like we do".

Typical mentality of Indian. And the behavior of Premier Singh may not be far from truth. I can guess after reading Indian news for long time, especially about the whole country of India boiling after newly-elected President Obama choosed to visit China, Korea, Japan and Indonesia, but not India for his first foreign visit.

 

[Ayush]

so,it is not an indigenous project,but still a good one.

Upon hearing this news, Premier Singh will jump in cheer and immediately phone President Obama "Sir, the WZ-10 is designed by the Russian, not by Chinese themselves. Please, please, please treat us with respect and fear, as you are doing with the Chinese, because they can not design the WZ-10, just like we do".

Typical mentality of Indian. And the behavior of Premier Singh may not be far from truth.

you know a lot about us,eh???

maybe you were researching on indians since dec.2009

 

[Wright]

That could rule out export to Pakistan.

 

[Akasa]

Let me introduce the amazing credibility of Russian news.
- They said China would buy the T-50. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy T-80. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Tu-22M3. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Slava. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Tu-160. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Su-35S. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Amur. Didn't happen.

A little while back a Russian poster showed a picture of a J-10A as their own Air Force planes. And now they are claiming that they designed a helicopter that the Americans claim were stolen from them. Indeed credible, huh?

Military Contractors Are Fined Over Aid to China
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/business/global/arms-contractor-pleads-guilty-on-china-exports.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON — A Canadian subsidiary of the Connecticut-based military contractor the United Technologies Corporation pleaded guilty on Thursday to federal charges that it had illegally helped the Chinese government develop an attack helicopter now in service there.
Enlarge This Image

Jonathan Alcorn/Bloomberg News
Louis R. Chênevert of United Technologies. He apologized after a subsidiary pleaded guilty to illegally exporting technology.
As part of a settlement with the Justice and State Departments, the military contractor, the Canadian subsidiary and another American subsidiary agreed to pay more than $75 million to the departments for making false statements to federal authorities.

The helicopter, known as the Z-10, seats two people and is designed mainly to attack tanks, armored vehicles and other ground forces. It is being mass produced in China.

The Canadian subsidiary, the Pratt & Whitney Canada Corporation, violated the Arms Export Control Act by providing the Chinese with 10 engines to power Z-10 helicopters in 2001 and 2002, according to an announcement by the United States attorney’s office for the District of Connecticut. Technology for the engines, the authorities said, had originally been created for United States military helicopters.

According to the settlement, Pratt & Whitney Canada pleaded guilty to illegally exporting to China the American military software used to operate the engines.

Pratt & Whitney Canada “anticipated that its work on the Z-10 military attack helicopter in China would open the door to a far more lucrative civilian helicopter market in China” that may have been worth $2 billion to the company, according to the Justice Department. Ultimately, the Chinese government chose not to award the company contracts for civilian helicopters.

United Technologies and its American subsidiary, the Hamilton Sundstrand Corporation, waited until 2006 to tell the United States government about the sales, according to the authorities, and then lied about them.

The settlement said that the Justice Department would defer its prosecutions of United Technologies and Hamilton Sundstrand as long as the companies paid their fines and allowed an independent monitor to assess their compliance with export law.

“We accept responsibility for these past violations and we deeply regret they occurred,” said Louis R. Chênevert, the chairman and chief executive of United Technologies.

He said that since 2006 United Technologies had invested more than $30 million “to strengthen its export compliance infrastructure,” including “increased employee training and communications efforts.”

The announcement from the Justice and State Departments comes as the Obama administration has increased its pressure on China. The administration has outlined plans to expand its military presence in the Pacific to reassure allies that they will be protected from the Chinese, who have vastly expanded their military spending in recent years.

“Due in part to the efforts of these companies, China was able to develop its first modern military attack helicopter with restricted U.S. defense technology,” said Lisa Monaco, assistant attorney general for National Security. “As today’s case demonstrates, the Justice Department will spare no effort to hold accountable those who compromise U.S. national security for the sake of profits and then lie about it to the government.”

The Justice Department has increased prosecutions against domestic companies selling military technology to the Chinese. So far this year, it has prosecuted six significant cases.

The most recent arrest occurred in May, when authorities apprehended a Chinese citizen in connection with charges that he had illegally exported transducers to China that can be used in centrifuges to enrich uranium. In April, a California man was sentenced to 46 months in prison for exporting thermal-imaging cameras to China.

“This is not the first and in all likelihood won’t be the last as the U.S. intelligence community assesses that the government of China is one of the most aggressive and capable collectors of sensitive U.S. technologies,” said Bruce Foucart, special agent in charge of homeland security investigations for New England, at a news conference in Bridgeport, Conn.

According to e-mails obtained by the Justice Department, Pratt & Whitney knew that it may have been violating American laws.

“Please note the attached notice (in bold) regarding the imposition of US sanctions on the Chinese Government for military aircraft,” according to an e-mail obtained by the Justice Department. “We must be very careful that the helicopter programs we are doing with the Chinese are not presented or viewed as military programs. As a result of these sanctions, we need to be very careful with the Z10C program. If the first flight will be with a gun ship then we could have problems with the US government.”

So which is it? Is it a development from Kamov or a development from US companies? It's similar to how they claimed the J-31 was at first a copy of the F-22 and then a copy of the F-35. Make up your minds, people.

 

[Gentelman]

Pakistan wants russian helis so if that chineese helo is designed by russia then it's a golden bird for PA..
they should sign a TOT agreement....

 

[Saleem]

Chinese attack helicopter's secret Russian roots


Now, my Chinese brothers, please don't argue saying they were merely design consultants. The secret nature of the collaboration precludes possibility of them being mere design consultants. That argument won't cut ice among the sensible.

Have to give credit where it is due, China made full use of the collapse of Communism in present-day Russia, to further its goals, unlike India, that refused a similar proposal the Soviets had made.

and the martians designed the J35 under a special contract where they get two orange lollipops for each J35 produced......

 

[Fsjal]

Let me introduce the amazing credibility of Russian news.
- They said China would buy the T-50. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy T-80. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Tu-22M3. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Slava. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Tu-160. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Su-35S. Didn't happen.
- They said China would buy Amur. Didn't happen.

A little while back a Russian poster showed a picture of a J-10A as their own Air Force planes. And now they are claiming that they designed a helicopter that the Americans claim were stolen from them. Indeed credible, huh?

So which is it? Is it a development from Kamov or a development from US companies? It's similar to how they claimed the J-31 was at first a copy of the F-22 and then a copy of the F-35. Make up your minds, people.

Actually, China did receive some T-80

 

[cirr]

Calm down you guys.

The Russians like to claim credits for themselves these days.

Even if what the Russian says is true, it was only "Concept Design" which happened in 1995 when China had nothing.

This is 2013 and not a single bit of the Z-10 originates from Russia.

 

[cirr]

It would be stupidity of the highest order not to learn from, and cooperate with, someone of Kamov's calibre in the field when a country like China set out to design and build its own attack helicopter back in 1995.

Now is 2013 and China has made great strides in the last 15-20 years.

If Russia did contribute to the Z-10 programme, even if the contribution was only in the early concept design stage, we should thank Russia for helping China become a new force in the design and build of modern attack helicopters.

 

[JSCh]

If you are getting help from foreign, you should openly admit it. Whats the point in pretending otherwise?

The truth is always bitter, and it always tumbles out of the closet suddenly. WZ-10's engines were designed by Pratt & Whitney. The US Govt. has fined the company many millions of $ for violating embargo and China shamelessly claims that WZ-10's engines are indigenous. Chinese gov. denies the P&W support.

Are we to think US Govt. is fining companies for nothing?

WZ-10 was initially designed and tested with US P&W, Russian and Ukrainian engine.

But later China developed Wozhou (WZ)-9 turbo-shaft engine that is used in production WZ-10 attack helicopter.

WZ-9 IS a Chinese made indigenous engine.

 

[Malik Usman]

cant make heli,,,, nw am thinking chinese so called stealthy fighter planes r made in chinese or just got from other country?

And which is that other country.....India......

 

[qwerrty]

Upon hearing this news, Premier Singh will jump in cheer and immediately phone President Obama "Sir, the WZ-10 is designed by the Russian, not by Chinese themselves. Please, please, please treat us with respect and fear, as you are doing with the Chinese, because they can not design the WZ-10, just like we do".

Typical mentality of Indian. And the behavior of Premier Singh may not be far from truth. I can guess after reading Indian news for long time, especially about the whole country of India boiling after newly-elected President Obama choosed to visit China, Korea, Japan and Indonesia, but not India for his first foreign visit.

they're going to chuck a big party tonight and a public holiday tomorrow based on how they jumping up and down here