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Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

According to latest issue of a Turkish magazine called MSI adverted that Indian officials told their interests to both TAI and Agusta-Westland to order huge number T-129 Atak Helicopters so They offered Atak team to take some offsets from both Agusta's and TAI's workload over T-129 Atak...


Really Interesting... Why Indians interested in T-129, While Many Russian Attack helicopters models are on market ?
 
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According to latest issue of a Turkish magazine called MSI adverted that Indian officials told their interests to both TAI and Agusta-Westland to order huge number T-129 Atak Helicopters so They offered Atak team to take some offsets from both Agusta's and TAI's workload over T-129 Atak...


Really Interesting... Why Indians interested in T-129, While Many Russian Attack helicopters models are on market ?


Brother, I think it's possible that Indians have Problems in maintaining the russian Hardware and with the supply of spare Parts. For example, our Jandarma use russian MI-17 Transport Helicopter and Turkey have great Problem in maintaining these Helicopter. So it's likely possible that Indians look to alternative Sources where are Chances for Tech-Transfer.
 
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According to latest issue of a Turkish magazine called MSI adverted that Indian officials told their interests to both TAI and Agusta-Westland to order huge number T-129 Atak Helicopters so They offered Atak team to take some offsets from both Agusta's and TAI's workload over T-129 Atak...


Really Interesting... Why Indians interested in T-129, While Many Russian Attack helicopters models are on market ?

They are diversifying their arsenal, plus wish to enjoy the western weaponry due to their higher combat quality and proven systems.
 
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They are diversifying their arsenal, plus wish to enjoy the western weaponry due to their higher combat quality and proven systems.

May be, but in that case they would prefer to opt for american platforms like Apachi plus they are also making thier own LHC, so i dont think they are in dire need of Atak. the only reason behind this move seems to be political, as they are trying to nutrilize Pak-Turk relationship.









adios
 
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i think pakistan has a option of t-129 under the transfer of technology
the engine use in t-129 is same as RAH-66 Comanche use
but i did recognize the front of t-129
i think we choose a different type of face of t-129
 
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wz19.jpg

AVIC has put this model up
 
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quoting from chinese website . sorry for introduction less translation
Wind in the pines off the grass Court no vulgar, Listening to the Spring tea seems immortal. The tea party with the past is different from Daisen declined in advance of you old friends, not Babe grass is always greener, rolling stone, but because today invited some special guests as it is, many people are afraid to speak is not convenient - he has served as a key model designers.
wz10.jpg

Q: WZ-ten is the uproar was uploaded on the Internet, today, I would like to ask in the end there is no WZ-ten?
A: WZ-ten is no doubt that the existence of. Ten straight for the arms like smoke and mirrors people, this is not surprising, at least that we do security work is very successful, very proficient.

Q: Speaking of confidentiality, we can say is cautious, do not overdone it?
A: The work of military secrecy is no small matter, everything about the safety of the country, the outcome of the war, how do not be overstated. This is no alarmist, we learned in this regard is profound, to say the least, just say a certain period is because someone leaked, leading to the reunification of the motherland off a major military operation abortion. The work of military secrecy, not only China attaches importance to, any country in the world is true. Sense of confidentiality should be a basic quality of the people.

Q: Internet users often complain that, to protect confidentiality to protect confidentiality, the earth people knew it, people do not know, the truth is that so?
A: This is not true. In fact, our enemy's military secrets to China are more concerned than the users, more enthusiastic, they do everything possible to do anything, do almost crazy to collect China's military intelligence. In fact, our enemies are, and not necessarily know more than the number of netizens, Take the "Yuan" class submarines, for instance, either a domestic Internet users made a shipyard habitat loaded image goes, the old United States it also kept in the dark, the old U.S. intelligence agencies for this disgrace the ugly.
This example also illustrates to day stresses security work, and always speaking, can not have the slightest careless. Confidentiality is our principle to follow the conversation, can say that, can not say that the firm did not say, but please understand.

Q: The armed helicopters in modern warfare how the status of it?
A: The armed helicopters in modern warfare is no doubt the position, and has been proven by practice of modern war. In short, the role of armed helicopters, primarily to win, "a tree of the high" of the air, just to make up for gaps in fixed-wing aircraft fire; by topographical constraints and dependence on a small ground-service, mobility and good for hiding, survivability and attack power, around the clock to one's own can provide a strong air cover and fire support, the enemy land and air targets a fatal blow, the "flying tank" reputation, is by no means the waves have a catchy title. With the new material (functional materials, composite materials, etc.), new technologies (such as microelectronics, information technology) applications, and new-concept weapons (such as laser weapons, directed energy weapons, etc.) The successful development of armed helicopters will menace .

Q: Also talk WZ ten. WZ-ten in the context of what developed? What is the significance of China?
A: Yes. As we all know, originally compiled in China there is no army aviation units, not to mention the armed helicopter. By this time, set up the world military powers of the aviation and military in general, including armed helicopters equipped with advanced helicopters, including the United States represent the world's highest level. The early eighties to Deng as the core of the party and the country's second generation of leaders solemnly declared to the world: China cut its military personnel by one million! In order to keep the tide of world military revolution, almost at the same time, the group made the wise decision-making system for Army Aviation.
The early formation of Army aviation can be said to start from scratch, almost all received the Air Force helicopters, and the performance is lagging behind. Chinese army aviation helicopters urgently needed especially in advanced helicopters to quickly improve the Chinese army's combat capability, so that it can compete with the world's military powers.
"Dolphin" helicopter full set of technology introduction, the Chinese scientists really out of the helicopter mode of the shackles of the Soviet Union, the first exposure to the world's most advanced helicopter technology and air promised us to chew slowly digested and absorbed, as was developed with independent intellectual property rights independent of paved the way for the advanced helicopter, this is worth it to pay tuition fees.
The late 90s of last century, in order to adapt to the new revolution in military affairs with Chinese characteristics and needs, the needs of national defense modernization, the world's military technology aimed at the commanding height of the CPC Central Committee and State Council and Central Military Commission, vision, size up the situation, after careful after the demonstration made a significant and decisive Decision: The Development of the WZ-ten included in the national "Ninth Five-Year Plan" Key weapons research project known as the national "key model." Needless to say anything else, this decision itself is of great strategic significance.

Q: Can you briefly talk about the development of weapons until after ten, right?
A: Yes. WZ-ten by the China Research Center, featuring the helicopter, and more than forty domestic units involved in related research institutes, and finally determined by the Changhe Aircraft Industry Group Company is responsible for final assembly. This is a high risk, and advanced systems engineering, airframe structure and key system technologies and new, difficult, coupled with the forces needed, short development cycle, the whole development process is full of challenges, but also to the Chinese scientific researchers with the helicopter to a rare historical opportunity. WZ-ten say the outcome of the collective collaboration is the collective wisdom.

Q: Why is determined by the WZ Chang Fei ten manufacturing, not Hafei? Hafei's technical strength is not enhanced it?
A: It was very heavy Hafei production tasks, the production of a single nine straight series got busy enough, already overloaded, no time for anything else. Chang Fei's technical strength is not weak, I am not claiming credit to Chang Fei, straight eight series, eleven straight series of successful development is a strong proof.

Q: WZ mention ten, people will naturally think of the helicopter expert Wu Ximing, you can talk about his arms straight in the development of the ten plays what role?
A: Wuxi Ming is a young and promising our helicopter specialists, the chief architect of the China Helicopter Research Institute, deputy chief designer of a key model. He has participated in the China has independently developed, including straight eight, nine straight, straight, etc., almost all of eleven models of the design helicopter, the helicopter developed and accumulated a wealth of practical experience. It is because of Wu Ximing research and development in the helicopter made an outstanding contribution, he has been identified as a national "863" aircraft based on technical subject matter experts, the National Defense Science, Technology and Industry Committee of experts with outstanding contributions, on several occasions in the meritorious service in the model development, the number of times above provincial and ministerial level scientific and technological achievements, has candidates for National Defense "511 Talents Project" State "New Century Talents Project"; fifteenth session of the "Ten Outstanding Youth", Wuxi Ming also made the list.
Wuxi Ming was started in 1998 as a "key model" the first division vice president positions, during the creative force to assist the chief engineer for the technical coordination of the development until ten, organization and management of ten straight on the successful development of weapons has made outstanding contributions.

Q: Internet users are very much like to know what force when ten straight first flight, you can give an authoritative statement?
A: Ha ha! Authority not to mention, but this is not a secret, and talk about it anyway. Researchers and workers through the efforts of the master, WZ-ten in May 2002 through the ground joint test, in April 2003 successfully achieved the first flight. It was an exciting day, it was a memorable occasion: the maiden flight of the day, under the drizzling sky, as if God shed tears; WZ ten eagle like a vigorous stand, arbitrary to make a variety of stunts, demonstrating excellent performance in the presence of officers all worked up!

Q: WZ-ten a total of several prototypes developed?
A: hard to say. Ten such as WZ model, generally less than two prototypes, the joint tests, such as ground static test such use, such as performance verification flight tests have used.

Q: WZ-ten say many, I also want to look at WZ-ten overall in the end at what level?
A: After all the hard research staff participate in research, hard work, time for completion of two years in Europe and America and other Western developed countries, 6 years time to complete the work, and create more miracles in the history of aviation, the development level of China's helicopter to move forward the past 20 years, the rapid increase in combat capability and defense forces modernization of weapons and equipment made outstanding contributions.

Q: Speaking of WZ-ten model development process to create a miracle, you can list a one two three, it?
A: The following statement taken from the published reports:
First, the successful development of ten straight arms to the overall level of helicopter design one more increase from 70 to 90 years, catching up with the world's highest level;
Second, the overall level of force until ten in the study of similar helicopters in service can be ranked in the top five in the world, you can use the same top three helicopters;
Third, the military straight to ten engineering programs in general, to the successful maiden flight, it only took less than half the time similar foreign helicopters ... ... so, this is not a miracle?

Q: You talked about the overall level of force until ten in the study of similar helicopters in service can be ranked in the top five in the world, you can use the same top three helicopters, I do not know these "research in service of its kind in the helicopter," and " similar use of a helicopter "is something that the story behind?
A: The evaluation of the industry is: WZ-ten overall operational performance, and Europe's "tiger" slightly lower than, but not with America's "Cobra" and Italy's "Weasel" considerable; and the U.S. AH-64 " Apache "and Russia's rice -28" catastrophe "attack helicopters and heavy attack is weaker than some, but possession of mobility, easy maintenance, low cost, procurement and the use of reasonable cost and other advantages. The armed helicopter with a variety of light compared to just ten arms straight out to major vendors.

Q: The foreign media has said WZ ten units of production equipment, can you confirm this?
A: (laughs) well said. However, manpower and resources we spend so painstakingly developed the advanced weapons are not for decoration, is the need to equip our troops used to improve combat effectiveness. Has been publicly reported that, following the WZ-ten in April 2003 after a successful maiden flight in 2004, while in the six front war, tough forward, full range of harvest. December 17, 2004, general manager of AVIC Liu Gaozhuo Development of key model investigated the situation, watch the flight performance, the development of key model given full recognition. December 15, 2004 to the Institute of Aviation Minister Song Xiangsheng boarding inspection and personally driving, had difficulty flying, great joy, repeatedly praised the good performance of WZ-ten. At this point, we can say that mass production of WZ ten nodes have been some major breakthroughs.

Q: Some say the appearance of ten straight arms as "Tiger", was said WZ ten like "kestrel." I recently saw a report from the United States, said WZ-ten copy of his "Apache", is it?
A: from advanced technology is what makes sense. Americans say that we copied what his "Apache", is simply talking nonsense! Intuit is also a small look at the wisdom of our Chinese people. This is what Americans used to thinking of a way: the line you are on the line that you, not also the line; not to say you can not, the line does not work; line and not depend entirely on his political needs. Zhu Rongji visited the United States when he said: With our Chinese people's wisdom we can develop all that we want to develop advanced weapons! We are rarely at what he "Apache", we have WZ full now!
(Because of the time, this interview for the time being written here, other topics discussed later)
 
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we need 40 from turkey and 60 from china than i think will be good for our ary remember we are figting with enemy who 5 times bigger than us so we need to have extra gunships too
 
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WZ10 Attack Helicopter - PLA Army

The PLA Army Aviation lacks an attack helicopter such as the AH-64 Apache or Mi-28 Havoc. The limited attack helicopter force consists of 30-40 WZ-9s and 8 SA-342L Gazelles, along with 60 Mi-17 Hips with unguided rocket launchers.

The primary mission for the treetop hugging WZ-10 is battlefield interdiction, eliminating the enemy ground fixed and mobile forces, and concurrently certain air combat ability.

Development of a dedicated attack helicopter began in the mid-1990s at the 602 Institute and Changhe Aircraft Industry Company (CHAIC) in Jingdezhen, Jiangxi Province. The new WZ-10 (Wuzhuang Zhisheng-10) is apparently similar to the South African Rooviak and Italian Agusta A129. The design uses the power plant and transmission derived from the Harbin Z-9, with the fuselage modified to accommodate two pilots.



The helicopter can carry up to 8 ATGMs, or IR-guided short-range AAMs. Although the helicopter might still not be as capable as the U.S. AH-64 Apache, it will probably play a significant role in Army Aviation modernisation and force compabilities.



According to another report, the PLA orignally selected the the MI-35 but chose the Rranco-German Tiger as the source of emulation. Around 1991-92 the PLA leased a single Pakistani AH-1 for technical evaluation.

Future upgrades to the WZ-10 will include sensor package carried on the Z-11 light helicopter that will improve target acquisition. The WZ-10 is equipped with FLIR thus allowing an operations in all weather.



The helicopter's net weight is approximately 5,543 kilograms. The helicopter approximate length is 14.15 meters, is 3.84 meters high, and is roughly 4.25 meters at its widest point.

The WZ-10 is believed to be equipped with flight transmission system from the Z-9. The main rotar consists of 4 blades made up of a compound material. The diameter of the blades is approximately 12 meters length. The WZ-10 has a non-traditional design that uses composite and radar absorbant materials.



The WZ-10 is believed to have two European MTR 390 turboshafts, though concrete information on the system is not entirely clear. The navigation and avionics are probably from domestic sources. The navigation system consists of radioaltimeter, doppler radar and GPS.

Reports indicate that the WZ-10 has an optics system that relays sensor information to the pilots helmets; essentially a system similar to the US Integrated Helmet and Display Sighting System (IHADSS). The helmet system also controls the direction that the machine gun is aiming. This allows the pilots to have an improved situation awareness as they can monitor flight systems and observe the terrain.

Two wings along the fuselage that are roughly 4.32 meters long may carry 1,500 kilograms of munitions, including a 57.0 mm multibarrel rockets, the red arrow 10(HJ-10) anti-tank missile. A 23 mm machine gun is fixed to the cabin at the front of the helicopter.



The HJ-10 (AKD-10) is China's third-generation of battlefield anti-tank missile (after the HJ-8 and HJ-9), and the first to be developed as an airborne weapon from the outset. The HJ-10 forms part of the wider weapons and systems package that has been produced for the Changhe Z-10 (WZ-10) combat helicopter. The HJ-10 is in the same class as the US AGM-114 Hellfire but follows a slightly different design approach. The status of the HJ-10 is closely linked to that of the Z-10 attack helicopter which has been under secretive development in China since the late 1990s. The Z-10 is China's first modern combat helicopter but it has received considerable technical assistance and direct design input from several Western suppliers. The main obstacle to progress for the programme has been to secure a suitable indigenous powerplant. A handful of Z-10 prototypes flew with Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C turboshafts, but production standard aircraft (perhaps designated Z-10A) are to be powered by a Chinese-built WZ-9 engine. Delays in fully developing and producing these engines have slowed the Z-10's entry into service with the People Liberation Army (PLA).

The fire control system is similar to the French Starry Night digital integration design.

The cabin's bulletproof glass may resist 7.62 millimeter ammunition and composite armor under the cabin resists 12.7 millimeters machine gun fires. The cabin is equipped to maximize fire protection and thw WZ-10 is also outfitted with ejection seats similar to the Ka-50.



The WZ-10 is also equipped with radar warning systems and with systems that will alert the crew that it has been targetted with laser range finders. The helicopter is also equipped with passive countermeasures and in an effort to reduce fratricide is equipped with IFF.

Future upgrades to the WZ-10A will likely include new a radar, fire control systems, infrared exhaust suppression and the ability to be flown from naval vessels.
 
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T-129 of course.

with lot of westren influence. the insight may also help to get a few further improved Z-10.
however, with T-129, we must take care that the ammunition that can be used like anti tank missile and rockets are Pakistan made.

Arsalan Aslam
 
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WZ-10 --- While Clearly we do not have a great deal of information about the Wz-10, were I advising the Pakistan Army procurement committees, I would recommend the Chinese helicopter - Why ? It can grow with us, it can help us grow, even if on a rather limited scale, a helicopter manufacturing capability -- somewhere along the line, Pakistan has to go from parasite consumer, to developing genuine military capability - that means our own doctrines, our own testing and refining of these doctrines and the equipment and sensors required to implement the doctrine successfully - A Pakistani way of war.

Developing such a capability is a absolute must, it should be part of a overhaul of the doctrines Pakistan armed forces have inherited from the Western colonial armed forces, the Pakistan army grew out of and now should work towards becoming a Pakistani force -- How well have the Western doctrines and equipment and colonial mindset been for the Pakistan army?? Let me refer you to their many defeats.

Yes, that was harsh but entirely factual - the WZ-10 can help the Pakistan armed forces develop the technical and industrial capabilities that are necessary for these armed forces to transition away from their parochial, outdated training and doctrines.
 
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