Yemen: Talks Collapse Over Houthi Demands

[HAIDER]

What I think a lot of people misunderstand in the Muslim and Arab world is that the introduction of democracy will radically change our societies, it wont.

Democracy is only a mechanism by which representatives or the people are elected, now the problem is that the Arab and Muslim world have not adopted liberal ideas and as a result the same actions we see in nations run by dictatorships will occur in nations that have only adopted elections as a means of providing a government. These governments will continue to rule by decree rather than consensus (as dictators do) and will ignore or persecute minorities just as much as the current regimes do, however, they will argue they are the legitimate and democratically elected representatives of the nation, to them (them being Islamists and conservative/partially secular politicians which dominate the political arena in these nations) democracy is only a tool to be used to achieve political office, they will laud it when it grants them the power they require and will just as easily damn it if it does not (for example some Islamists denounce democracy as Kufr yet will use it if it means gaining power).

The Arab and Muslim world needs a liberal democracy and not just the mechanism, that will only happen when the societies themselves adopt liberal ideas and values (separation of powers, rule of law, seperation of Church and state,civil rights, freedom of speech and press etc.).

As far as political maturity , noticed alot among. Egyptians,Iraqis,Kuwaits rest have emphasis on Pan Arabianism . But dictatorship has lots slogan for public consumption. Plus zero tolerance for opponent .

 

[al-Hasani]

As far as political maturity , noticed alot among. Egyptians,Iraqis,Kuwaits rest have emphasis on Pan Arabianism . But dictatorship has lots slogan for public consumption. Plus zero tolerance for opponent .

Say what? Arab nationalism was probably the strongest in Egypt out of all countries with Iraq and Syria next and a bunch of other Arab countries.

What we see in PARTS of the Arab world is no different from what we see in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Somalia, Senegal, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan etc. politically wise and the problem of the opponents and rulers not being able to find a healthy consensus and share power like people usually do in the Western world.

The social problems and other areas are similar as well. We touched on some of them in this very thread.

Also you cannot know anything about being politically mature when this has not been tested. What happened and is happening in Egypt, Syria and Iraq is hardly being "politically mature" but everything else. Nor has any of those countries been a true democracy either.

Nor any other ME country for that matter. In the Western European sense of the word.

 

[HAIDER]

Say what? Arab nationalism was probably the strongest in Egypt out of all countries with Iraq and Syria next and a bunch of other Arab countries.

What we see in PARTS of the Arab world is no different from what we see in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Somalia, Senegal, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan etc. politically wise and the problem of the opponents and rulers not being able to find a healthy consensus and share power like people usually do in the Western world.

The social problems and other areas are similar as well. We touched on some of them in this very thread.

Also you cannot know anything about being politically mature when this has not been tested. What happened and is happening in Egypt, Syria and Iraq is hardly being "politically mature" but everything else. Nor has any of those countries been a true democracy either.

Nor any other ME country for that matter. In the Western European sense of the word.

Well, meet lots of arabs outside their countries. Plus it feels Egyptian already learn the lesson from the failure of Jamal Nasir. Where slogan of Pan-Arabiansim badly failed. There is no thing call True democracy.

 

[al-Hasani]

Well, meet lots of arabs outside their countries. Plus it feels Egyptian already learn the lesson from the failure of Jamal Nasir. Where slogan of Pan-Arabiansim badly failed. There is no thing call True democracy.

Point in case is that we are not talking about the diaspora but people actually living in those countries. Arab nationalism in its socialistic form and in the Ba'ath form has failed. Not in the notion of 1 Arab world united by ancient history, language, culture, religions, geography, ancestral ties, a largely common pre-Islamic Semitic past etc. nor the notion of 1 Arab people. This is a huge difference that many fail to learn. Yes, Arab nationalism mixed with socialism and Ba'athism failed but has the notion among Arabs of a strong Arab world in harmony and cooperation with itself failed? Hell none. Otherwise all those Arab organizations and all that cooperation between governments and most important PEOPLE would not take place.

When Islamists will fail (inevitable) it will not result in a failure of Islam but just a failure of their particular interpretation of Islam as Islam has many facets.

What I mean by democracy is the democracy that you can find in Western Europe (which I consider more developed than in the US) where most people are democratically conscious. People in the ME are not there yet. Even NOT REMOTELY CLOSE TO THAT. Hence why democracy is not working fully.

Why? Because people lack a democratic tradition. It took Europe over 2-3 CENTURIES from the first democratic values that reemerged again during the Renaissance later culminating in the French Revolution of 1789 until Western Europe let alone Eastern Europe became democratic.

In fact if you consider Russia as Europe, Belarus and other states then democracy is far from being a reality there.

Hope you understand now.

 

[HAIDER]

Anyway , after reading this turmoil , it seems KSA has key to this situation, because KSA meet fuel demand of Yeman and can control the price hike. This is all peaceful demonstration against economic issue and fresh election. This is not shia issue, lots of sunni tribes are supporting economic and political cause . So, this is not religious or sectarian issue....its all ciziten rights related ...

 

[al-Hasani]

Anyway , after reading this turmoil , it seems KSA has key to this situation, because KSA meet fuel demand of Yeman and can control the price hike. This is all peaceful demonstration against economic issue and fresh election. This is not shia issue, lots of sunni tribes are supporting economic and political cause . So, this is not religious or sectarian issue....its all ciziten rights related ...

Haidar……

1) KSA is not a superpower but just one of the 3-4 regional powers of the ME/Western Asia.

2) KSA has problems and challenges of its own.

3) KSA is now experiencing one of the biggest building/investments booms in the Muslim world that takes a lot of the attention despite the region begin on fire next by.

4) KSA commits mistakes like any other country and does not have solutions for everything.

5) KSA usually has a less direct approach than other countries of her size, economic, military, cultural, religious etc. power/influence. One of the biggest aims is internal stability.

6) KSA considers Yemen more as a burden than an asset as of now.

7) The solution is in Yemen's hands. Assisting can obviously help but will not solve the underlined problems.

8) KSA does not look at problems with religious glasses. Only rarely does that happen. The examples that confirm this are too many to mention but KSA's close ties with non-Muslim countries, Shia majority Azerbaijan, Ibadi Oman, diverse Lebanon etc. should confirm my point.

9) This is an internal Yemeni matter that if needing an Arab approach should be raised in the Arab League like all other of such issues.

10) I need to go to bed.

 

[HAIDER]

Haidar……

1) KSA is not a superpower but just one of the 3-4 regional powers of the ME/Western Asia.

2) KSA has problems and challenges of its own.

3) KSA is now suffering from one of the biggest building booms in the Muslim world that takes a lot of the attention despite the region begin on fire next by.

4) KSA commits mistakes like any other country and does not have solutions for everything.

5) KSA usually has a less direct approach than other countries of her size, economic, military, cultural etc. power.

6) KSA considers Yemen more as a burden than an accent as of now.

7) The solution is in Yemen's hands. Assisting can obviously help but will not solve the underlined problems.

8) KSA does not look at problems with religious glasses. Only rarely does that happen. The examples that confirm this are too many to mention but KSA's close ties with non-Muslim countries, Shia majority Azerbaijan, Ibadi Oman, diverse Lebanon etc. should confirm my point.

9) This is an internal Yemeni matter that if needing an Arab approach should be raised in the Arab League like all other of such issues.

Remember its same we have Afghanistan next door and you have Yeman....sometime countries has to bring security in lazy neighbors and have no choice. Hungry and poor neighbor is more dangerous then one live across ocean....Agreed Yeman is not KSA liability , but they can help to resolve the issue.