Y-20 heavy transport aircraft News & Discussions

[samsara]

There will be a new feel on Y20 this year, according to a Y20 senior pilot, also a member of China's people congress.

No details given, so it could be (1) a new engine, or (2) a new variant of Y20.

海峡之声广播电台北京3月4日消息(记者 龚天宁 杨娜)【两会军情观察】作为中国自主研发的新一代大型军用运输机，运-20是名副其实的“大国重器”，也在广大的军迷和网友中具有很高的人气，官方绰号“鲲鹏”，网友们则亲切称之为“胖妞”。全国人大代表、空军某团飞行大队长冯玮，就是驾驭“鲲鹏”的人。


从轰-6K飞行员到运-20“管理者”

冯玮曾经是一名优秀的轰炸机飞行员，驾驶轰-6K出色完成了黄岩岛巡航等多项重大演训任务，成为运-20的飞行员后，冯玮感觉最大的不同是新型飞机的优异性能让自己从飞行中“解放”出来，更多去思考作战。

“我觉得首先真的是角色转变，虽然我都叫飞行员，但现在我是一个运-20的管理者。以往飞行员要大量的精力去保持这个飞机状态，现在不用你考虑，计算机在干。这个飞机的先进化程度已经保证了你可以管理它规划它，然后他自己去保持那种飞行的轨迹，那么让你更多的精力来干什么呢?规划你怎么去作战啊!如何隐蔽企图?空投完之后，如何快速返航?飞行员的精力更多地解放在这里。”

作为驾驶运-20的第一批飞行员，冯玮和战友们积极探索，取得多项突破，在每次飞行任务中和运-20共同成长，创造了新型大型运输机接装后一周内实现首飞、运输机编队参加阅兵等多个“首次”。


驾驶运-20巡航 见证祖国美丽与辽阔

因为任务的原因，冯玮驾驶飞机巡航过祖国的东西南北，也见证了祖国的美丽与辽阔，“每个地域都有不同的风景，比如像飞格尔木的时候，戈壁、黄沙，荒凉也未必不是一种美;青海湖，我见过湛蓝的青海湖，也见过全部冻上冰的青海湖，因为你飞的季节不一样;‘桂林山水甲天下’，我多次从桂林飞过，我在空中去看桂林，我能知道哪个地方是阳朔，哪个地方是上川岛，我们在空中看桂林山水，又是不一样的风景。你能感觉到祖国的大好河山和它的辽阔，比如说你要到新疆，飞半天你都没飞出去”，冯玮说，每当这种时候，自豪感和使命感油然而生，“一方面你要有能力有实力去保卫它;另一方面，我们也希望它能建设得更美好。”


运-20只是新起点 期待新装备闪亮登场

作为军队人大代表，冯玮说，要成为一名优秀的飞行员和战斗员，不仅要有优异的军事技能，还要有强大的心理素质。这次全国“两会”，他将提出心理训练的建议，“我希望把心理训练纳入到军事训练与考核这个体系里面去，只有纳入日常的训练，把它放在同等地位，才能让实战化训练更加接近实战，更有战味”。

作为新一代大型军用运输机，运-20的表现，让人们充满期待。冯玮透露，“今年运-20将给大家带来耳目一新的感觉，一定不会让大家失望。”

近年来，空军新型装备发展迅速，作为运-20的飞行员，冯玮希望更快更深融入作战体系，自己能成为新型作战力量的“奠基石”。对于未来空军装备发展，他也充满期待，“我愿意坐在电视机前，去看我们新的武器装备不断涌现，看他们闪亮登场，我相信有更多更好的装备，因为我们很好的基础。

OedoSoldier tweeted on 2019-03-21:

The Y-20B equipped with WS-20 engine will make its first flight this year
The current Y-20A engine is WS-18, and the H-6K engine is D-30KP-2.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108772254974914562

In responding to the question of our int'l mod here, Deino: “What's the source for this part, that the Y-20A's engine is the WS-18?”

OedoSoldier mentioned his source of info from the “Supreme HQ military forum”: cjdby.net.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Refuting the persistence by some that it's impossible for the Chinese side to use any domestically built engine as an alternative to the Russian-made D-30KP, Hendrik_2000 from SDF posted following interesting notions, principally he highlighted the substantial mismatch of the known imported D-30KP engines by China vs the guesstimated built number of the big aircraft as the prospective users of those Russian engines:

(with some minor typo corrections by myself)
“… It is not unusual for Chinese military to undertake 2 military development simultaneously as fall back option. If anything it is the norm we can see from ships type 51 and type 52 Myriad missile program and IFV. The loser in the competition normally will be offered for export.
China only imported around 150-200 D-30KP from Russian sources. There are 50 H6K that use 2 of them so total usage 100.
There are around 20 Y20 assuming it used 4 D-30KP. Another 80 is now used. So where are the spares?

And we know both H6K and Y 20A are now produced in large number. So where are all the engine come from? Unless China import more from Russia which we will know because the Russian will tell the world”


The underlying assumptions are:

- the imported number of D-30KP engines by Chinese will be accurately made known by the Russian side

Challenging the belief by some that China has no viable engines developed domestically at this point of time or even earlier to feed those big aircraft it produces (H-6 series and Y-20).

Conclusion: up to each to formulate his thought

Or, wait until any further official revelation by the Chinese authoritative side at some point of time in unspecified future.

 

[ILC]

Actually there are probably close to 90-100 H-6K.

 

[Beast]

OedoSoldier tweeted on 2019-03-21:

The Y-20B equipped with WS-20 engine will make its first flight this year
The current Y-20A engine is WS-18, and the H-6K engine is D-30KP-2.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108772254974914562

In responding to the question of our int'l mod here, Deino: “What's the source for this part, that the Y-20A's engine is the WS-18?”

OedoSoldier mentioned his source of info from the “Supreme HQ military forum”: cjdby.net.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Refuting the persistence by some that it's impossible for the Chinese side to use any domestically built engine as an alternative to the Russian-made D-30KP, Hendrik_2000 from SDF posted following interesting notions, principally he highlighted the substantial mismatch of the known imported D-30KP engines by China vs the guesstimated built number of the big aircraft as the prospective users of those Russian engines:

(with some minor typo corrections by myself)
“… It is not unusual for Chinese military to undertake 2 military development simultaneously as fall back option. If anything it is the norm we can see from ships type 51 and type 52 Myriad missile program and IFV. The loser in the competition normally will be offered for export.
China only imported around 150-200 D-30KP from Russian sources. There are 50 H6K that use 2 of them so total usage 100.
There are around 20 Y20 assuming it used 4 D-30KP. Another 80 is now used. So where are the spares?

And we know both H6K and Y 20A are now produced in large number. So where are all the engine come from? Unless China import more from Russia which we will know because the Russian will tell the world”


The underlying assumptions are:

- the imported number of D-30KP engines by Chinese will be accurately made known by the Russian side

Challenging the belief by some that China has no viable engines developed domestically at this point of time or even earlier to feed those big aircraft it produces (H-6 series and Y-20).

Conclusion: up to each to formulate his thought

Or, wait until any further official revelation by the Chinese authoritative side at some point of time in unspecified future.

Even more valid of WS-18 exists and equipped Airforce is after Y-20 equipped with WS-20, production of WS-18 will still goes on as WS-20 are not able to fit in H-6K.

WS-20 engine

I do not forsee H-6K bomber will retired in a few years time. With estimate 100 H-6K and few IL-76 serving in PLAAF. WS-18 engine will continued to serve PLAAF for at least another decade.

The need of WS-18 and its existence do not need a genius or pure black and white for confirmation.

 

[Deino]

OedoSoldier tweeted on 2019-03-21:

The Y-20B equipped with WS-20 engine will make its first flight this year
The current Y-20A engine is WS-18, and the H-6K engine is D-30KP-2.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108772254974914562

In responding to the question of our int'l mod here, Deino: “What's the source for this part, that the Y-20A's engine is the WS-18?”

....

Indeed, and I must apologise to @Beast since he was right and I was wrong.

Sorry

 

[Beast]

Indeed, and I must apologise to @Beast since he was right and I was wrong.

Sorry

There is no need for apology but i believe Y-20 equipped with WS-20 might not happen soon. There is no neccessary need. More likely when militarize of C919 is going to happen then we might see WS-20 equipped the Airforce.

 

[Deino]

There is no need for apology but i believe Y-20 equipped with WS-20 might not happen soon. There is no neccessary need. More likely when militarize of C919 is going to happen then we might see WS-20 equipped the Airforce.

No, I need to apologise since I now I know especially in my early days here at the PDF I was always one of the most critical readers of your posts and my role as a moderator especially against you was barely and rarely unbiased.

That does not mean I now fully agree with you on all points, but the way I did was unprofessional.
Therefore I beg your pardon.

 

[Han Patriot]

No, I need to apologise since I now I know especially in my early days here at the PDF I was always one of the most critical readers of your posts and my role as a moderator especially against you was barely and rarely unbiased.

That does not mean I now fully agree with you on all points, but the way I did was unprofessional.
Therefore I beg your pardon.

It seems Chinese engine tech is maturing. Y-20s using Chinese engine is a very important milestone.

 

[Beast]

It seems Chinese engine tech is maturing. Y-20s using Chinese engine is a very important milestone.

Rumours is that even the engine currently used on J-10 and J-20 are domestic engines.

 

[Han Patriot]

Rumours is that even the engine currently used on J-10 and J-20 are domestic engines.

J10 is a known fact I think.

 

[cirr]

Y-20，WS-20 and N1 Trim

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/j0QFEO9hfqQOYlvw3AzjOg

Excerpts

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运20飞机自从配装了大涵道比涡扇发动机后，类似民航飞机的推力管理技术也被写进了设计要求中，唐总听闻N1 Trim具有降噪的效果，指示运20飞机也要有这项技术。张伟的导师高总则提出“我们不但要掌握如何应用这项技术，更要对技术原理吃透，这样才能做到型号飞机设计心中有数”。

。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

有了理论，如何落地到型号研制过程中？凭借着对发动机控制规律扎实的工程经验及飞机机载系统架构的理解，提出了应用于运20飞机拍频噪声抑制技术方案，回答了当时大家关心的风扇转速N1同步范围、同步方法及在自动飞控系统中N1同步功能的控制算法，并使用Simulink工具进行了拍频建模仿真。这项技术虽然来自于民航飞机，但是却特别贴合我院大中型军民用运输机主研单位的定位，不仅适用于大涵道比多发涡扇飞机，也适用于多螺旋桨飞机，对我院在研及未来型号研制意义深远。

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[samsara]

Y-20，WS-20 and N1 Trim

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/j0QFEO9hfqQOYlvw3AzjOg

Excerpts

。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

运20飞机自从配装了大涵道比涡扇发动机后，类似民航飞机的推力管理技术也被写进了设计要求中，唐总听闻N1 Trim具有降噪的效果，指示运20飞机也要有这项技术。张伟的导师高总则提出“我们不但要掌握如何应用这项技术，更要对技术原理吃透，这样才能做到型号飞机设计心中有数”。

。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

有了理论，如何落地到型号研制过程中？凭借着对发动机控制规律扎实的工程经验及飞机机载系统架构的理解，提出了应用于运20飞机拍频噪声抑制技术方案，回答了当时大家关心的风扇转速N1同步范围、同步方法及在自动飞控系统中N1同步功能的控制算法，并使用Simulink工具进行了拍频建模仿真。这项技术虽然来自于民航飞机，但是却特别贴合我院大中型军民用运输机主研单位的定位，不仅适用于大涵道比多发涡扇飞机，也适用于多螺旋桨飞机，对我院在研及未来型号研制意义深远。

。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

Please correct it if see material error
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
Since Y-20 is equipped with high-bypass ratio turbofan engines, the thrust management technology similar to civil aviation aircraft has also been written into the design requirements. Manager Tang heard that N1 Trim has the effect of noise reduction, instructed that Y-20 aircraft should also have this technology. [Gao Zongze,] Zhang Wei's mentor, put forward that "we should not only master how to apply this technology, but also understand the technical principles thoroughly, so that we can have a good idea of the design of model aircraft".
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
With the theory, how to land in the process of model development? Based on the solid engineering experience of the engine control law and the understanding of the airborne system architecture, this paper puts forward the technical scheme of beat-frequency noise suppression technology solutions applied to Y-20 aircraft, answers the fan speed N1 synchronization range, synchronization method and the control algorithm of N1 synchronization function in the automatic flight control system concerned at that time, and carries out beat-frequency modeling and simulation using Simulink tool. Although this technology comes from civil aviation aircraft, it especially fits the position of the main research units of large and medium military and civil transport aircraft in our institute. It is not only suitable for large bypass ratio turbofan aircraft, but also suitable for multi-propeller aircraft. It is of far-reaching significance for our institute's research and development of future models.
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@cirr - thx, corrected already
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Btw, here's the profile under focus, Zhang Wei 张伟、born in September 1985 in Qingyang, Gansu Province, graduated from the Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics. He was sent to Northwestern Polytechnical University and graduated in 2011. In 2016, he pursued a PhD in Aircraft Design (accomplished in 2018).

This man just reminds us again that TODAY the top brains in China no longer need to carry their educations and be trained in the Western universities like the earlier generations of Chinese engineers. China's domestic universities and institutes have the necessary qualities to train the top brains into the diamond quality of engineers!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From OedoSoldier on 29 April, just tersely:

Quoted the same link as above, https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/j0QFEO9hfqQOYlvw3AzjOg

“The WS-20 engines were already mounted on Y-20”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1122621946112376832

 

[cirr]

Please correct it if see material error
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
Since Y-20 is equipped with high-bypass ratio turbofan engines, the thrust management technology similar to civil aviation aircraft has also been written into the design requirements. Manager Tang heard that N1 Trim has the effect of noise reduction, indicating that Y-20 aircraft should also have this technology. [Gao Zongze,] Zhang Wei's mentor, put forward that "we should not only master how to apply this technology, but also understand the technical principles thoroughly, so that we can have a good idea of the design of model aircraft".
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
With the theory, how to land in the process of model development? Based on the solid engineering experience of the engine control law and the understanding of the airborne system architecture, this paper puts forward the technical scheme of beat-frequency noise suppression technology solutions applied to Y-20 aircraft, answers the fan speed N1 synchronization range, synchronization method and the control algorithm of N1 synchronization function in the automatic flight control system concerned at that time, and carries out beat-frequency modeling and simulation using Simulink tool. Although this technology comes from civil aviation aircraft, it especially fits the position of the main research units of large and medium military and civil transport aircraft in our institute. It is not only suitable for large bypass ratio turbofan aircraft, but also suitable for multi-propeller aircraft. It is of far-reaching significance for our institute's research and development of future models.
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Btw, here's the profile under focus, Zhang Wei 张伟、born in September 1985 in Qingyang, Gansu Province, graduated from the Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics. He was sent to Northwestern Polytechnical University and graduated in 2011. In 2016, he pursued a PhD in Aircraft Design (accomplished in 2018).
View attachment 557052

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From OedoSoldier on 29 April, just tersely:

Quoted the same link as above, https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/j0QFEO9hfqQOYlvw3AzjOg

“The WS-20 engines were already mounted on Y-20”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1122621946112376832

Not indicating but instructing......

 

[samsara]

taxiya at SDF pointed out the significance of the above article, thus made it clearer. Based on words, the relationship between the Y-20 and the WS-20 has been made pretty clear. Now the outside world is simply awaiting some visualization support to baptize these written depiction as irrefutable!

Read it here:

Just pass on a post from CJDBY: https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2546833-1-1.html

Which referred to an AVIC First Academy post about Zhang Wei's work
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/j0QFEO9hfqQOYlvw3AzjOg

运20飞机自从配装了大涵道比涡扇发动机后，类似民航飞机的推力管理技术也被写进了设计要求中，唐总听闻N1 Trim具有降噪的效果，指示运20飞机也要有这项技术。

Translation:
Since mounting of large bypass turbofan engine, thrust management technology similar to civilian airliner has been introduced into Y-20's design specification. Chief Tang (that is Tang Changhong) instructed that Y-20 must have N1 Trim after hearing that it has noise reduction effect.

The interesting thing is not the "N1 Trim", but the LARGE bypass turbofan engine. In Chinese practice, that can only be anything above 4, which is WS-20. The WS-18/DK30 are regarded as “medium bypass.”

Note: the Weixin account is the official account of AVIC First Academy.

 

[LKJ86]

 

[Deino]

View attachment 559041

The XAC Y-20's nest at Xi'an-Yanliang ... can't wait to see the first Y-20B with WS-20 engines this year.