Xi’s Submarine Sale Raises Indian Ocean Nuclear Clash Risk

[black-hawk_101]

I am sure PN would go for more after the 8 of them that they are going to acquire or produce in Karachi. Also, I think PN should focus on a mini version of it with 700 ton weight that can launch torpedoes and AShMs.

My apologies if this was posted here or elsewhere on this forum. Just found it interesting - that's all.

All content copyright Trishul-Trident Blog concerning Indian Navy matters.

Pakistan Navy's Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-Class & Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-Class Submarines

China’s R & D programme to develop the double-hulled Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-class and Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-class SSK submarines—all to be powered by China-developed Stirling Engine air-independent propulsion systems—was begun in January 2005.

The first and only S-26 was launched at Wuchang Shipyard in Wuhan in September 2010, and it completed its harbour-trials by September 2012. Its sea-trials commenced on October 16, 2012 in the Bohai Sea. The S-26 has a length of 92.6 metres, width of 10 metres, hydroplane width of 13 metres and a height of 17.2 metres. It has a draught of 6.85 metres when surfaced with a displacement of 3,797 tons. It operates at a submerged depth of 160 metres, but can dive as deep as 200 metres. Maximum surfaced speed is 10 Knots and maximum submerged speed is 14 Knots. It can operate with a crew of 88 for 30 days without resupply, or 200 crewmen for three days.

The S-30 will have a submerged displacement of 6,628 tons, and will be armed with four vertically-launched Babur long-range land-attack cruise missiles and two submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM), most likely the upgraded JL-1 SLBM. Construction of the first S-30 is presently underway at Wuhan. Deliveries, however, will not commence until 2020 at best.

The S-26 and S-30 submarines are being developed by China solely for the Pakistan Navy, and they will not enter service with the PLA Navy. The Pakistan Navy will procure four S-26s and four S-30s. China will also supply Pakistan with a submarine rebuild centre (SRC) that will be located at Ormara, and a VLF communications facility that will be located at Turbat. Deliveries of the S-26 submarines will begin by 2017.

The silos shown above are to contain sea-launched versions of the JL-1 SLBM as well as Vertical tube launched version of the Babur (HATF III) missile.

FD-2000 (HQ-9) LR-SAM are also to be potentially sold to Pakistan - more here and here.

Information on the JL-1 is here.

@TOPGUN @Penguin Is this true?

What my thinking is saying is that; PN will be procuring this:
8+8 S-20 which might be a 2200 Ton vessel.
7-8 S-30 which will carry a Pakistani nuclear reactor.

I hope so; S-10 will be in service too with 700 tons for coastal operations.

 

[immortalsoul]

@Oscar @ was
I believe you find this statement offensive hope that you this troll.

who start the fight first? look at your own post

 

[Irfan Baloch]

smart people thanks for not quoting the troll
I have removed his flame bait. and all those simpletons whoo fell for his bait

good luck with staying smart

you are assuming pakistani navy can operate subs hundreds of miles away without being compromised

thanks to geography and aircraft carriers the indian navy enjoys complete naval air dominance. india has 100+ ASW aircraft and choppers

you are assuming the pakistani subs have the ability to fire cruise missiles

I am also assuming the same. this is why Hatf7 cruise missile has been modified for Naval based platforms.
unfortunately its test will never be confirmed or declared to keep you guys guessing.
we hope that you are dismiss the idea that we have this ability. it suits us just fine

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

smart people thanks for not quoting the troll
I have removed his flame bait. and all those simpletons whoo fell for his bait

good luck with staying smart


I am also assuming the same. this is why Hatf7 cruise missile has been modified for Naval based platforms.
unfortunately its test will never be confirmed or declared to keep you guys guessing.
we hope that you are dismiss the idea that we have this ability. it suits us just fine

Would Babur also be a sea based weapon?

 

[timetravel]

Bhai there is no Arms Race because there is no comparison between Pakistani and Indian Armed Forces.

Indian Armed Forces >>>>>> Pakistani Armed Forces. Only thing Pakistan can count on is their Nukes.

By 2035-50, with all laser based anti missile systems covering whole of India, even Pakistani nukes will be 100% out of the equation. India is going to be the technology king of world in another 3 decades.

The only countries which can take on Indian Armed Forces in 21st century are China, Russia and US.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Would Babur also be a sea based weapon?

In the works or already done. Not sure.

@Rashid Mahmood @Irfan Baloch @fatman17 @Horus Any updates?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

In the works or already done. Not sure.

@Rashid Mahmood @Irfan Baloch @fatman17 @Horus Any updates?

yes that is the plan

there is speculation and some analysis from international media. they think we dont have the technology yet to adapt the cruise missile for submarine launch but they DO acknowledge that we have the intent to get the platforms and develop the missiles for our naval strategic force

Does Pakistan Have a Sea-Based Second-Strike Capability? | The Diplomat

 

[Indus Falcon]

Bhai there is no Arms Race because there is no comparison between Pakistani and Indian Armed Forces.

Indian Armed Forces >>>>>> Pakistani Armed Forces. Only thing Pakistan can count on is their Nukes.

By 2035-50, with all laser based anti missile systems covering whole of India, even Pakistani nukes will be 100% out of the equation. India is going to be the technology king of world in another 3 decades.

The only countries which can take on Indian Armed Forces in 21st century are China, Russia and US.

What hallucinogen are you on?

 

[wiseone2]

smart people thanks for not quoting the troll
I have removed his flame bait. and all those simpletons whoo fell for his bait

good luck with staying smart


I am also assuming the same. this is why Hatf7 cruise missile has been modified for Naval based platforms.
unfortunately its test will never be confirmed or declared to keep you guys guessing.
we hope that you are dismiss the idea that we have this ability. it suits us just fine

the platform needs to be modified for launching naval cruise missiles. i doubt the french will ever release the tech for agosta submarines

See, this arms race between Pakistan and India is really going overboard! In this era, there never is going to be a full scale war due to geopolitical considerations. However, there could be minor skirmishes and some not so minor ones like the Kargil fiasco. The enormous amounts being spent on defense can be better utilized for development of both our countries.

Like Pakistan is known to have the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world (which needless to say will never be used!) Minimum deterrence should be the strategy so that the extra money being spent on 'overkill' can be better utilized for improving the quality of life.

But then there's a dick measuring contest going on between our two countries which doesn't seem to be ending soon. However it should be noted that we have another front to defend against. Our defenses are not Pakistan specific whereas yours are India specific as you have no other threats on the horizon.

india will spend on military to prevent china from being a threat

 

[Bilal9]

What hallucinogen are you on?

I was going to ask what the OP thought Pakistan was going to sit around doing while India became 'the technology king of world in another 3 decades'.

Underestimating one's enemy is the last thing a strategist does....

the platform needs to be modified for launching naval cruise missiles. i doubt the french will ever release the tech for agosta submarines

There will be other options - China is already fielding such short range sea-launched cruise missiles as the C-708UNA which boasts 3-times the range of the C-801 (128 km) and can be fired from torpedo tubes, which makes Song class subs SLCM capable. I have no reason to believe that they cannot adapt the marginally larger HATF-7 (or improved variant) to be launched using the same launch regime.

The only thing you have to worry about for large cruise missile sizes (when launched from a sub) is rapid stability and buoyancy control in the sub post-launch, which - as shown in those images posted at Trishul, is possible. If they can launch 15000 kg 300kt Nuclear SLBM's like JL-1 from a 6000 ton diesel sub (S-30), I'm sure they can deal with HATF-7 which weighs about one-tenth as much. There are supposed to be two JL-1's and four HATF-7's in VLS canisters in the S-30 sub. The HATF-7 canisters are located aforeships of the conning tower.

 

[Bilal9]

I am sure PN would go for more after the 8 of them that they are going to acquire or produce in Karachi. Also, I think PN should focus on a mini version of it with 700 ton weight that can launch torpedoes and AShMs.

@TOPGUN @Penguin Is this true?

What my thinking is saying is that; PN will be procuring this:
8+8 S-20 which might be a 2200 Ton vessel.
7-8 S-30 which will carry a Pakistani nuclear reactor.

I hope so; S-10 will be in service too with 700 tons for coastal operations.

The S-20 has six torpedo tubes capable of firing up to 18 torpedoes and missile canisters, which include the 533mm Yu-6 heavy torpedo, naval mines and 300km range YJ-82 AShM. Pakistan is already working to navalize HATF-7 land attack cruise missile for launch from its current Agosta 90B submarines, so the new S-20s would almost certainly also be designed to carry nuclear armed HATF-7 missiles.

This would give Pakistan an additional credible second strike capability by way of,
a) Being able to launch nuclear strikes from previously inaccessible (littoral - shallow depth) areas like the Bay of Bengal or other coastal areas off of the Indian coastline, where the heavier 6000 ton S-30 can't go but lighter 2200 ton S-20's can,
b) And that too with an underwater nuclear deterrent like the nuclear tipped HATF-7 (range of 750-1000km).

So - Pakistan's naval plan calls for twelve submarines. PN currently operates five French Agosta class, with two of its Agosta 70s over 40 years old and in dire need of replacement. My understanding is that the S-20 (Song Class) or S-26 might be the Agosta replacements. And the S-30's (modified type 032 'Qing Class' as some are saying) could be the new upgraded class for the PN as a temporary Indian SSN deterrent.

 

[Icewolf]

Bhai there is no Arms Race because there is no comparison between Pakistani and Indian Armed Forces.

Indian Armed Forces >>>>>> Pakistani Armed Forces. Only thing Pakistan can count on is their Nukes.

By 2035-50, with all laser based anti missile systems covering whole of India, even Pakistani nukes will be 100% out of the equation. India is going to be the technology king of world in another 3 decades.

The only countries which can take on Indian Armed Forces in 21st century are China, Russia and US.

Meanwhile no military equipment that can tackle laser weapons will be made, and India will be a Vedic superpower.

 

[Bilal9]

Meanwhile no military equipment that can tackle laser weapons will be made, and India will be a Vedic superpower.

Ha ha ha

 

[Icewolf]

Ha ha ha

I mean, seriously, do these Indians think that the world is not going to progress in military technology?
I mean just look at WW2 times and look now to see how far the world has progressed.

Mirrors can deflect lasers too.

 

[Basel]

Bhai there is no Arms Race because there is no comparison between Pakistani and Indian Armed Forces.

Indian Armed Forces >>>>>> Pakistani Armed Forces. Only thing Pakistan can count on is their Nukes.

By 2035-50, with all laser based anti missile systems covering whole of India, even Pakistani nukes will be 100% out of the equation. India is going to be the technology king of world in another 3 decades.

The only countries which can take on Indian Armed Forces in 21st century are China, Russia and US.

And you think Pakistan will not have HEL systems till that time?? China is already testing HEL for taking out subsonic and low flying targets and they will soon start testing against other targets so in the end Pakistan will have HEL to handle threat posed by its enemies on its borders.

China Develops Anti-Drone Lasers | The Diplomat