Wtf is "Seraiki" or "Hindko" identity????

[Hamza913]

Why are some people acting like these groups are not just sub-communities of Punjabis? It's so weird, a few hundred years ago or even just a couple of decades ago they would have all been called Punjabis. Who concocted these made-up ethnic groups? Why would anyone identify with them?

I can't think of a single "Seraiki" or "Hindko" dynasty, poet, ideologue, etc who exists in the history books. All such people simply called themselves Punjabis (or, more broadly, Indo-Aryans). There is no basis for any of this. It just seems like a desperate ploy to carve the Punjab, and before someone says "muh vote bank too big", why not just make Lahore, Karachi and other big cities their own independent territories like Islamabad, as opposed to cutting up provinces along such arbitrarily made-up identities?

 

[RescueRanger]

Why are some people acting like these groups are not just sub-communities of Punjabis? It's so weird, a few hundred years ago or even just a couple of decades ago they would have all been called Punjabis. Who concocted these made-up ethnic groups? Why would anyone identify with them?

I can't think of a single "Seraiki" or "Hindko" dynasty, poet, ideologue, etc who exists in the history books. All such people simply called themselves Punjabis (or, more broadly, Indo-Aryans). There is no basis for any of this. It just seems like a desperate ploy to carve the Punjab, and before someone says "muh vote bank too big", why not just make Lahore, Karachi and other big cities their own independent territories like Islamabad, as opposed to cutting up provinces along such arbitrarily made-up identities?

OP your thread is really unhelpful, first of all its Siraiki not Seraiki. The history of the language can be traced back to well before the 7th Century. In fact there is an entire post-doctoral thesis on the subject:

https://eprints.lancs.ac.uk/id/eprint/133467/1/11003560.pdf

Furthermore in his recent paper a prominent Linguist has argued that the it is a language of its own rather than a dialect. In a recent study, Atta (Reference Atta2019) claims that Saraiki is a language of its own rather than a dialect of any other language. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316786693_Siraiki_Language_or_Dialect

Whilst I don't believe that people should divide themselves solely on ethnic/lingual diversity (after all we are all Pakistani) denying people the right to claim what they feel is theirs is the whole reason we have conflicts in Sindh and Balochistan in the first place.

 

[Hamza913]

OP your thread is really unhelpful, first of all its Siraiki not Seraiki. The history of the language can be traced back to well before the 7th Century. In fact there is an entire post-doctoral thesis on the subject:

https://eprints.lancs.ac.uk/id/eprint/133467/1/11003560.pdf

Furthermore in his recent paper a prominent Linguist has argued that the it is a language of its own rather than a dialect. In a recent study, Atta (Reference Atta2019) claims that Saraiki is a language of its own rather than a dialect of any other language. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316786693_Siraiki_Language_or_Dialect

Whilst I don't believe that people should divide themselves solely on ethnic/lingual diversity (after all we are all Pakistani) denying people the right to claim what they feel is theirs is the whole reason we have conflicts in Sindh and Balochistan in the first place.

A Latin transliteration of a Perso-Arabic word has no formal spelling, either is fine.

Citing XYZ fat book is not a rebuttal, highlight the relevant sections that prove Seraikis are their own ethnicity going back to the 7th century. It doesn't matter if it's "sensitive", it's a made-up identity and if they want to claim otherwise they have to prove it. These same people run around insulting other Punjabis 24/7 so let's not pretend they're some oppressed community either.

Baloch and Sindhis are also a separate story.

 

[Asimzranger]

I will say every city have is its own identity

 

[Hphobe]

Furthermore in his recent paper a prominent Linguist has argued that the it is a language of its own rather than a dialect. In a recent study, Atta (Reference Atta2019) claims that Saraiki is a language of its own rather than a dialect of any other language. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316786693_Siraiki_Language_or_Dialect

If you read the study you posted below, you'd see that the researchers clearly states that Seraiki does not meet any of the linguistic characteristics to be it's own language.

 

[RescueRanger]

A Latin transliteration of a Perso-Arabic word has no formal spelling, either is fine.

Citing XYZ fat book is not a rebuttal, highlight the relevant sections that prove Seraikis are their own ethnicity going back to the 7th century. It doesn't matter if it's "sensitive", it's a made-up identity and if they want to claim otherwise they have to prove it. These same people run around insulting other Punjabis 24/7 so let's not pretend they're some oppressed community either.

Baloch and Sindhis are also a separate story.

What utter tripe - You have just posted opinion whilst I have shared facts! You need to practice what you preach - let me point you to your own previous post below!

If you wish to have an adult conversation with me on the subject kindly share with me any peer reviewed publication to the contrary that supports your ethnofacist archaic and dismissive views!

 

[Hamza913]

If you read the study you posted below, you'd see that the researchers clearly states that Seraiki does not meet any of the linguistic characteristics to be it's own language.

Yes, here's the relevant screenshot from the doctoral thesis (page 29):

Seraikis are not their own ethnic group, they are just Punjabis getting played by those who wish to see the province destroyed out of some sort of jealousy complex towards it and its power

 

[RescueRanger]

If you read the study you posted below, you'd see that the researchers clearly states that Seraiki does not meet any of the linguistic characteristics to be it's own language.

Have you read the thesis or just glanced at the document from DocPub?

Furthermore:

The historical development of Saraiki identity and impediments to the establishment of South Punjab province – Pakistan Monthly Review

pakistanmonthlyreview.com

Seraikis are not their own ethnic group, they are just Punjabis

That is your opinion and not that of any Siraiki speaker.

 

[Hamza913]

What utter tripe - You have just posted opinion whilst I have shared facts! You need to practice what you preach - let me point you to your own previous post below!

View attachment 845692


If you wish to have an adult conversation with me on the subject kindly share with me any peer reviewed publication to the contrary that supports your ethnofacist archaic and dismissive views!

Nothing you posted proves that Seraikis are their own ethnic group, in fact, it only validated my own point that they're not. I just showed such from your own sources.

Seraikis are not oppressed, there are no military operations in south Punjab. They are not economically neglected. To equivocate them with Balochistan or FATA is a joke.

Seraiki "oppression" is Pakistan's equivalent to pronoun people in the West complaining of "oppression".

That is your opinion and not that of any Siraiki speaker.

You've brought not one fact to validate them being a separate ethnic community. You complain that I'm ill-informed, fine. Cite me a passage that states that Seraikis are an ethnic group that existed from the 7th century (as you originally claimed). Because all I could gather is that your own source refutes you.

 

[RescueRanger]

Nothing you posted proves that Seraikis are their own ethnic group, in fact, it only validated my own point that they're not. I just showed such from your own sources.

Seraikis are not oppressed, there are no military operations in south Punjab. They are not economically neglected. To equivocate them with Balochistan or FATA is a joke.

Seraiki "oppression" is Pakistan's equivalent to pronoun people in the West complaining of "oppression".

And that is your opinion, you are welcome to it, but don't try to push your opinion on others stating it as fact!

For your kind information, I am not a Saraiki speaker - but I don't like how people dismiss the claims of communities in Pakistan like you have done in this shitty thread!

 

[Hamza913]

Furthermore:

From your own link:

"It was the British in 1849 who first classified the Saraiki language as being distinct from Punjabi."

You're not helping your case

 

[RescueRanger]

From your own link:

"It was the British in 1849 who first classified the Saraiki language as being distinct from Punjabi."

You're not helping your case

Its called history. Who discovered the first Stupa in Pakistan? Your argument is moot! Try harder.

 

[Hphobe]

By the way, any Punjabi advocating for a decoupling of Punjab from South Punjab should carefully look at what Seraiki identitarians advocate an

Have you read the thesis or just glanced at the document from DocPub?

Quick glance. See the findings of the author below.

Also, thank you for citing a commie pinko rag like Pakistan Monthly Review which on top of making a number of unproven assertions, touts the usual victimhood line about Seraikis suffering some sort of 70 year long repression and discrimination at the hands of Punjabis.

 

[Hamza913]

And that is your opinion, you are welcome to it, but don't try to push your opinion on others stating it as fact!

No, it is a fact - Seraikis are Punjabis. They are not their own community. People don't get to claim such out of the blue, that's not how ethnicity works.

If me and a few other Pakistanis said we ethnically identify as jinn, are you going to demand that people respect our identification as jinn and do not impose upon us a human identity? Let's be mature here.

 

[RescueRanger]

No, it is a fact - Seraikis are Punjabis. They are not their own community. People don't get to claim such out of the blue, that's not how ethnicity works.

If me and a few other Pakistanis said we ethnically identify as jinn, are you going to demand that people respect our identification as jinn and do not impose upon us a human identity? Let's be mature here.

Again its your opinion - NOT fact! Like I said - try harder maybe!

By the way, any Punjabi advocating for a decoupling of Punjab from South Punjab should carefully look at what Seraiki identitarians advocate an

Quick glance. See the findings of the author below.

View attachment 845695

Also, thank you for citing a commie pinko rag like Pakistan Monthly Review which on top of making a number of unproven assertions, touts the usual victimhood line about Seraikis suffering some sort of 70 year long repression and discrimination at the hands of Punjabis.

Oh dear oh dear. Its a shame that people like you exist in Pakistan. No wonder we are where we are! Live in your echo chamber with your little butt-hurt buddies. Whilst I am not a Saraiki speaker - I will speak up for their right to have their own identity.

Again this is my opinion, and I am very well within my rights to express it.