Wow, an OPPO smartphone factory tour...

[AndrewJin]

all humans are capable of equal productivity in the long run.

How?

 

[Shotgunner51]

How?
View attachment 328857

Are these Maths results from Singapore or Malaysia?

 

[AndrewJin]

Are these Maths results from Singapore or Malaysia?

In Singapore...
Malaysia dares not to publish the real data....
Singapore is basically Chinese.

 

[Jlaw]

I'm afraid that manufacturing jobs will not be coming to India because robots and automation will replace the need for repetitive manual labor in all areas. What will India do with its "demographic dividend"? Will India's demographic dividend turn into a demographic disaster, with hundreds of millions of India's young becoming unemployed or underemployed for life? What will happen to India's social stability? Will India be able to hold itself together under social unrest? These are important questions that Modi government must study in depth.


A great video on China's "cooperative robots":

In China, robots cost less than hiring people and are more efficient and productive. This is a natural solution for China's labor shortage:

MIT Technology Review on China's robotic revolution:

China's leading robots manufacturer Siasun:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...on-undercuts-modi-s-quest-to-put-poor-to-work

Robot Invasion Undercuts Modi’s Quest to Put Indians to Work - Bloomberg

In a sweltering factory in southern India, Royal Enfield motorcycles are being painted and lacquered by giant robotic arms that move at twice the maximum speed of a human limb, day in, day out, never making a mistake.

Only a few workers are still needed on the paint line at Royal Enfield Motors Ltd.’s plant in Oragadam, doing touch-ups on the iconic two-wheelers coveted for their classic design. Four robots can do the work of 15 human painters toiling across three shifts.

India’s largely uneducated labor force and broken educational system aren’t ready for the more complex jobs that workers need when their low-skilled roles are taken over by machines. Meanwhile, nations employing robots more quickly, such as China, are becoming even more competitive.

“The need for unskilled labor is beginning to diminish,” Akhilesh Tilotia, head of thematic research at Kotak Institutional Equities in Mumbai and author of a book on India’s demographic impact. “Whatever education we’re putting in and whatever skill development we’re potentially trying to put out - - does it match where the industry will potentially be five to 10 years hence? That linkage is reasonably broken in India.”

Competing Tasks
Improving automation will “likely compete with some low-skill tasks,” Standard Chartered Plc economists in London and Toronto wrote in a May report.

Royal Enfield Motors’ plant, near Chennai, is an example. Spray painting is a repetitive and hazardous job, perfect for a machine. Done manually, it exposes laborers to noxious, dizzying paint fumes that can impair memory and cognitive function.

Humans are imperfect: They miss spots, which can corrode the bike. They waste more because they go over the same place twice. No human can paint exactly the same way each time.

Robots installed by Zurich-based ABB Ltd. at Royal Enfield’s newest plant in southern Tamil Nadu state have 2.1-meter (7-foot) mechanical arms that reduce paint wastage by half. At maximum speed, they paint four times faster. They never miss a spot, never take a break, never go on strike.

Nimble Production
Robots also mean more nimble production in an era of frequent product launches and shorter manufacturing cycles: while a human needs to be retrained, a robot can switch at a touch of a button.

“Large manufacturing plants can really struggle to find enough stable, skilled blue-collar workers that can do repetitive tasks day in, day out,” said Per Vegard Nerseth, ABB’s global head of robotics. “Turnover is very high, so you have a huge task training people, which incurs costs. That makes the payback for robots more favorable for a company.”

The Oragadam plant started with four painting robots in 2013 and plans to add 14 more as it expands. Both Royal Enfield and ABB declined to disclose the cost of the machines but said the investment will pay for itself in about two years.

Royal Enfield’s motorcycles, ridden by British troops in World War II, have cult appeal among enthusiasts, and the waiting list to buy one has been as long as a year. Fans who have owned one include Brad Pitt and Billy Joel.

Its older plant further north has also recently added four welding robots, which do in 20 seconds what takes two minutes for a human. The company declined to say how many workers were displaced or whether it has further automation plans for the facility, at Tiruvottiyur.

New Jobs
While displacing some types of jobs, robots also create new ones, like engineers to maintain and program them. A study by industrial analysis firm Metra Martech Ltd. shows they help create more jobs than they eliminate from the assembly line.

India can use the help. Labor productivity in Indian factories is the worst among major economies, according to a report by the Boston Consulting Group and the Confederation of Indian Industry. Brazilians, who ranked second to last, are still three times more productive than Indian workers.

Robot installations in India grew 23 percent in 2013 from the previous year, with annual sales hitting a record 1,900, the latest figures available from the International Federation of Robotics. That’s just a fraction of China. About 56,000 units were sold last year alone in the world’s biggest robot market, where factories including iPhone producer Foxconn Technology Group are helping China keep its manufacturing edge against lower-wage rivals.

It’s not just factory jobs either. In Meerut, about 80 kilometers (50 miles) northeast of the capital Delhi, local police are considering using robots to help guide traffic at busy intersections, Ramit Sharma, the city’s deputy inspector general, said by phone on Monday. Information technology companies and banks are also looking to automation to eliminate lower-end jobs and clerical staff, according to a June report by Kotak.

Losing Out
“There’s the threat of India losing out,” said Madhur Jha, senior economist at Standard Chartered in London. “Other countries are slightly more developed, have a stronger manufacturing base, and are moving toward automation more quickly to keep themselves competitive.”

When Modi announced his Make in India campaign in September, he cited India’s “greatest strength” as having 65 percent of the population under 35.

That demographic dividend may not pay out as expected.

For one, India’s working-age population is increasing far faster than the number of jobs in the formal sector: roughly 1 million a month versus 1 million a year, according to a report by JustJobs Network, a labor research institute.

Stealing Jobs
It’s also not clear if factories planned today will create the number and type of jobs that Modi is expecting.

“If you build a factory today assuming that it will create 100 jobs, in the course of 10 years as new technologies are adopted, it may create only 10 or 20 percent of the jobs you expected,” said Makoto Yokoyama, the head of Mitsubishi Electric Corp.’s factory automation division in India, who has witnessed Japan’s car plants employ fewer and fewer workers.

“It’d be a lie to say that robots won’t steal jobs,” said Sonali Kulkarni, who heads the India unit of Fanuc Corp., one of the world’s biggest robot makers. “They will, but not the jobs that people should be aspiring to. People are capable of really a lot more than mindlessly loading or unloading from a machine or welding.”

Yet India is failing to educate its illiterate 287 million -- greater than the population of every other country except China and the U.S. -- to do much more than that.

Unemployable Grads


The average Indian adult has been schooled for only 4.4 years, the worst among Asia’s major developing economies, according to United Nations data. Worse, half of the 5 million graduating annually with bachelor’s degrees are unemployable because of poor cognitive and language skills, according to a study by Aspiring Minds, a skills-assessment company. Larsen & Toubro Ltd., India’s biggest engineering firm, is forced to train new hires from scratch.

"The challenge for many emerging markets, like India, will not be to create low-cost jobs, but to make use of its gigantic human potential through broader and better education,” said Antoine van Agtmael, a former World Bank economist who coined the term emerging markets and is writing a book on automation undermining the advantage of cheap labor.

In the race to create factory jobs, Modi isn’t just competing against Asian rivals. Robots are increasingly helping developed economies. In Switzerland, robots make toothbrushes for export; in Spain, they cut and pack lettuce heads -- a job previously done by migrants; in Germany, they fill tubs of ice cream, and in the U.K. they assemble yogurt into multipacks at a rate of 80 a minute.

Tharman Shanmugaratnam, chairman of the International Monetary Fund’s policy advisory committee until March and Singapore’s finance minister, gives India -- and rivals such as Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia -- a fast-closing window to catch up with rich countries or miss the boat.

“Time is not on India’s side,” he told Indian policymakers at a government conference in December. “I give 10 years for labor-intensive manufacturing to survive in its present form before machines take over.”

Robotics automation will not result in millions of lost jobs in China. Japan is the number one world users in robotics. Look at these numbers.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

How?
View attachment 328857

First tell me what is this data about?

Also, as I said in the long run everyone is capable of equal productivity. Racism has never worked out as a good policy for anyone.

Singapore is basically Chinese.

Except no one in Singapore believes that.

The Chinese Singaporeans will always say that they have no loyalty towards China, only Singapore. Singapore is an ally of US, and I have seen many Singaporean Chinese who actively work against China in the international stage.

 

[endyashainin]

First tell me what is this data about?

Also, as I said in the long run everyone is capable of equal productivity. Racism has never worked out as a good policy for anyone.



Except no one in Singapore believes that.

The Chinese Singaporeans will always say that they have no loyalty towards China, only Singapore. Singapore is an ally of US, and I have seen many Singaporean Chinese who actively work against China in the international stage.

Were you in Singapore legally? Singapore has a huge problem with illegal Indian immigrants. There was a riot by Indians a few years back which shocked the Singaporean society. Since then, immigration has been restricted to those from India.

 

[Nilgiri]

Were you in Singapore legally? Singapore has a huge problem with illegal Indian immigrants. There was a riot by Indians a few years back which shocked the Singaporean society. Since then, immigration has been restricted to those from India.

Are you one of these???:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-chinese-border-california-20160607-snap-story.html

You certainly sound and have the mental fortitude of one.

 

[AndrewJin]

First tell me what is this data about?

Also, as I said in the long run everyone is capable of equal productivity. Racism has never worked out as a good policy for anyone.



Except no one in Singapore believes that.

The Chinese Singaporeans will always say that they have no loyalty towards China, only Singapore. Singapore is an ally of US, and I have seen many Singaporean Chinese who actively work against China in the international stage.

lol, they are basically Chinese, what's wrong? Did I say they are Chinese nationals? Are Hindu in Sinngapore loyal to your country? They are proud to live in a Chinese-dominated society which provides the Chnese style stability and prosperity.

Second, the information in that chart was published by Singaporean government. Are u saying Tamil in Singapore living in a racist society which is hostile to non-Chinese ethnic groups?
@Mista @CAPRICORN-88

Thrid, this thread is about automation.
Pls do not reiterate the non-sense "everyone is capable of having the same productivity in the long run". Political correctness is a tool for high-IQ elites to brainwash the naive liberals who firmly believe people have the same performances in math and 100m running IN THE LONG RUN (long means when the earth explodes?)

 

[endyashainin]

Indians love to express their pride in India, but when given a chance, they'd rather all leave India for a better life.

 

[maverick07]

lol, they are basically Chinese, what's wrong? Did I say they are Chinese nationals? Are Hindu in Sinngapore loyal to your country? They are proud to live in a Chinese-dominated society which provides the Chnese style stability and prosperity.

Second, the information in that chart was published by Singaporean government. Are u saying Tamil in Singapore living in a racist society which is hostile to non-Chinese ethnic groups?
@Mista @CAPRICORN-88

Thrid, this thread is about automation.
Pls do not reiterate the non-sense "everyone is capable of having the same productivity in the long run". Political correctness is a tool for high-IQ elites to brainwash the naive liberals who firmly believe people have the same performances in math and 100m running IN THE LONG RUN (long means when the earth explodes?)

Would you have said the same thing about Chinese workers (when they had lower productivity than today) in the 1970s. Times change and with that people/culture and nations change too

Indians love to express their pride in India, but when given a chance, they'd rather all leave India for a better life.

The Indian diaspora is smaller than China, does it mean the Chinese led the trend of leaving their own country and then mocking others?

I think once we start establishing a manufacturing base, then we can start forcing the manufacturers to bring more and more value chain into India..... we do have a huge market no one will be able to say no to....... or else they lose out to others. I can bet that in 20 years time we can have a manufacturing base which China has today

 

[powastick]

Would you have said the same thing about Chinese workers (when they had lower productivity than today) in the 1970s. Times change and with that people/culture and nations change too

Lee Kuan Yew did.
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/artic...head-curve-when-he-predicted-chinas-emergence

Lee told Deng that the Singapore Chinese were descendants of illiterate landless peasants from Guangdong and Fujian, whereas the scholars, mandarins and literati had stayed and left their progeny in China.
"There was nothing that Singapore had done which China could not do, and do better," Lee wrote. "He stayed silent then. When I read that he had told the Chinese people to do better than Singapore, I knew he had taken up the challenge I quietly tossed to him that night 14 years earlier."

 

[maverick07]

Replace China with India in the above quote and you have the same story...... we had many foretelling the breakup of India as late as the 1980s...... today we have a cohesive and focused country..... we may appear to be argumentative and we certainly are much more noisy but I think we are moving in the right direction we will reach the same productivity levels as China in a decade and a half

 

[AndrewJin]

Lee Kuan Yew did.
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/artic...head-curve-when-he-predicted-chinas-emergence

Lee told Deng that the Singapore Chinese were descendants of illiterate landless peasants from Guangdong and Fujian, whereas the scholars, mandarins and literati had stayed and left their progeny in China.
"There was nothing that Singapore had done which China could not do, and do better," Lee wrote. "He stayed silent then. When I read that he had told the Chinese people to do better than Singapore, I knew he had taken up the challenge I quietly tossed to him that night 14 years earlier."

It's all about people's average intellectual level. Lee was right about it. Overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia were originally the disadvantaged peasants who were regarded not so smart in China after hundred years of Social Darwinist selection. But once they are given an opportunity like in Singapore, they have established one of the most successful societies where even non-Chinese ethnic groups can enjoy prosperity thanks to the majority people's hardwork and wisdom, a model of Chinese around the world.

https://defence.pk/threads/how-soci...meritocracy-shaped-the-middle-kingdom.444685/

Lee's kingdom was founded and built by a number of Chinese poor peasants and low-class people. But now they are one of the smartest groups in the world, check their PISA rank. If Chinese peasants can achieve in Singapore, you can fully believe the elites and higher class Chinese on the mainland.

 

[powastick]

Replace China with India in the above quote and you have the same story...... we had many foretelling the breakup of India as late as the 1980s...... today we have a cohesive and focused country..... we may appear to be argumentative and we certainly are much more noisy but I think we are moving in the right direction we will reach the same productivity levels as China in a decade and a half

Nope, Lee Kuan Yew never said the same thing with India. Here what he says.

In 2000, Lee published "From Third World to First," an account of the rise of Singapore beginning in 1965. It contains a long section on India’s flaws, both as a civilization -- Lee believed the caste system was inimical to meritocracy, which is the foundation of economic development -- and as a new nation-state that he said couldn't transcend its native introversion and its (democratic) directionlessness.

 

[endyashainin]

Nope, Lee Kuan Yew never said the same thing with India. Here what he says.

Lee Kuan Yew's view was that India would be lucky to catch up with Brazil in per capita income and no more. But for China, Lee predicated that it could easily surpass Singapore in per capita income in the not too distant future.

Replace China with India in the above quote and you have the same story...... we had many foretelling the breakup of India as late as the 1980s...... today we have a cohesive and focused country..... we may appear to be argumentative and we certainly are much more noisy but I think we are moving in the right direction we will reach the same productivity levels as China in a decade and a half

To reach China's productivity level in a decade and a half, India needs to grow as fast as China has in the past 15 years, if not faster.

This is a simple matter of arithmetic. India's GDP is about $2 trillion today. Chinese GDP is around $11.4 trillion today. For India's GDP to grow to $11.4 trillion in 15 years, India needs to grow 12% per year every year until 2030.

India's official GDP growth rate is a lie made up by the Statistics Ministry, which miraculously added 3% to her GDP growth rate overnight. India's real growth rate is closer to 5.5%, based on all the component indicators such as service sector growth, industrial production growth, investment levels, etc. The component indicators have only improved slightly from 3 years ago.

At current pace, it will take more than 30 years for India to reach where China is today. Even if India manages a constant 7% annual growth rate, which it has never done before, it would take India 25 years to reach where China is today. If we go by India's average growth rate between 1992 and 2012, which is about 6.5%, it will take India 27 years to reach where China is today.

25 to 30 years is a very long time. Given India's life expectancy is only 65 years, many of our Indian forum members will be dead before India can catch up with China of today.

Good luck!