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Would the PA be interested in this weapon system

fatman17

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JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 01, 2006

China develops 155 mm/52-cal howitzer
YIHONG CHANG JDW Correspondent and
CHRISTOPHER F FOSS Jane's Land Forces Contributing Editor
Hong Kong and London


The new 155 mm/52-cal Norinco howitzer is based on the existing 45-cal PLZ45

There is speculation that the new system copies Russian designs



China North Industries Corporation (Norinco) has developed to the prototype stage a new 155 mm/52-cal self- propelled howitzer (SPH), which has already started its firing trials.

Defence sources told JDW that the weapon may be designated the PLZ52 or Type 05. At this stage it is not certain whether it has been developed for use by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) or for the potential export market.

The PLZ52 appears to be based on the tracked chassis of the standard Norinco 155 mm/45-cal PLZ45 that has been in service with the PLA for some years.

Most recent export customers for self-propelled artillery systems have opted for a 155 mm/52 cal-gun rather than the older 155 mm/45-cal weapon because it offers increased range. As far as is known, the only export sales of the PLZ45 to date were two batches of artillery systems to Kuwait in 1997 and 2001, including ammunition resupply vehicles, a fire-control system and target acquisition systems.

The turret of the PLZ52 is new, but similar in appearance to that used by the Russian 152 mm 2S19 (MSTA-S) SPH, first fielded in 1989-90. For the export market, Russia has developed to prototype stage a new 155 mm/52-cal system: the 2S19M1. This has been shown and demonstrated at a number of Russian defence exhibitions but, as far as is known, not outside Russia. The older 2S19 has been demonstrated outside Russia. JDW sources state that Chinese defence officials made a close study of the 2S19M1 and that the new PLZ52 is based on this analysis.

China has in the past made major purchases of complete Russian weapon systems but in recent years has moved towards acquiring subsystems in the land sector.

A source in the Russian defence industry said that it had not sold or transferred the technology of any version of the 2S19 or its turret system to China.

JDW sources believe there is a parallel to the Chinese 300 mm (10-round) A100 multiple rocket system (MRS) that is very similar to the Russian Splav 300 mm BM 9A52 (12-round) Smerch MRS; the Chinese once again borrowed the design concept of the Russian system.

The new Norinco 155 mm PLZ52 will fire standard NATO artillery ammunition as well as Chinese 155 mm ammunition developed for the PLZ45.

The 155 mm/52-cal ordnance fitted to the PLZ52 has a muzzle brake and fume extractor and a muzzle-velocity measuring device is mounted over the rear part of the ordnance.

The baseline PLZ45 had a maximum range of 30 km firing extended-range full bore (ERFB) ammunition and 39 km firing ERFB base bleed ammunition.

Defence sources told JDW that Norinco has developed a new ERFB high-explosive projectile that combines base bleed and rocket assist. When fired from a 155 mm/45-cal system, a range of 50 km can be achieved.

The latest 155 mm/52-cal system would have increased range and therefore higher survivability against counter-battery fire.

The PLZ45 and PLZ52 can also fire the locally produced version of the Russian 155 mm Krasnopol laser-guided artillery projectile.

Why China elected to develop a new turret is not clear as the existing PLZ45 could have been fitted with a 155 mm/52-cal barrel. It is considered probable that the new turret system has a more advanced automatic ammunition handling system that first loads the projectile and the charge. This gives a higher rate of fire and reduced crewing requirements.

In the West there has been a major move from conventional bag type charges to modular charges. At this stage it is not certain whether China has developed this capability as well.

Norinco 155 mm 45 calibre self-propelled gun-howitzer PLZ45 (jaa.janes.com)
 
I think Pak is buiying 155mm Howitzer from Turkey.


Regards
Wilco
 
According to Sino defence the latest version of this system features an autoloader similar to that of 2S19.

I thought Pakistan was recieving more M109s and as these are being phased out from most European armies like M113 APCs these might be better to get hold of.
 
No 384/2007-ISPR Dated 6-9-07
Rawalpindi September 6: A prestigious ceremony was held at School of Artillery Nowshera in which Chief of Logistics Staff Turkish Armed Forces Lieutenant General Hulusi AKAR donated 155 mm Howitzer Panther Gun to Pakistan Army.
Speaking on occasion Lieutenant General Hulusi AKAR said Pakistan and Turkey enjoy a very special relationship marked by a rich reserve of mutual good will and strong desire to further strengthen bilateral ties. Both brethrens countries enjoy close relations in field of defence collaboration ranging from weapons and equipment training of each student officer in Pakistan and turkey and joint exercise being conducted.


Turkey is a leading country in production of arms and this donation will be a mile stone in the history of both countries in further fostering brotherly relations. Lieutenant General Hulusi AKAR handed over the keys, of 155 mm Howitzer Panther Gun to Lieutenant General Ejaz Ahmed Bakhshi, Director General Weapons & Equipment. A memorandum of understanding between both countries was also signed to boost existing ties on defence production. 155 mm modem towed Howitzer Panther Gun is latest artillery piece manufacture by Turkey and has range of 40 Kilometer.


A view of ceremony of handing over the keys of 155 mm Howitzer Panther Gun to Pakistan Army at School of Artillery Nowshera. Chief of Logistics Staff Turkish Armed Forces Lieutenant General Hulusi AKAR and Lieutenant General Ejaz Ahmed Bakshi attended (06-9-2007), Photo ISPR.


Chief of Logistics Staff Turkish Armed Forces Lieutenant General Hulusi AKAR and Lieutenant General Ejaz Ahmed Bokshi, Director General Weapon & Equipment and others group photographed on the eve of handing over ceremony of 155 mm Howitzer Panther Gun to Pakistan Army at School of Artillery Nowshera (06-9-2007), Photo ISPR.

ISPR Press Release - 5 Mar 2007
 
Negetive.

Pakistan is using M109A2 version and USA has agreed to deliver M109A5 pieces to Pakistan Army.

The A6 Paladins is used by USA only.

Correct. Paladin and earlier derivatives are considerably different. It makes sense for Pakistan to keep the older versions (A2) and the more recent A5s due to the price and also the fact that if they went with Paladin then you essentially have two different guns M109A2 and A6 in service.
 
Here is another point,
what is the usefulness of tracked self propelled artillery, as focus of warfare is shifting to mountainous terrain wher field guns/howitzers are req?
 
The M109s were bought and upgraded given the strategic context of a war with India so the Self propelled guns are for the likes of armoured divisions.

However Pakistan is looking towards towed pieces like the panther for its field regiments.
 
The primary purpose of SP artillery in the Pakistan Army is to be able to provide Artillery support to the strike corps of the Pakistan Army. The artillery units need to keep up with the movement of the armour which is the reason that towed artillery is not considered as an option in this case. This is also the reason that 200-300 SP artillery guns are considered sufficient for the Pakistan Army.
 
Hi,

The primary purpose of the towed artillery is not to keep up with the troops movement but rather shoot and scoot. With present day technology, the artillery piece will be immediately vulnerable to enemy after the first round---it maybe able to fire three to five rounds before it needs to move---otherwise it will be history by the enemy fire.
 
Hi,

The primary purpose of the towed artillery is not to keep up with the troops movement but rather shoot and scoot. With present day technology, the artillery piece will be immediately vulnerable to enemy after the first round---it maybe able to fire three to five rounds before it needs to move---otherwise it will be history by the enemy fire.

Correct but Artillery pieces like Pathar are mobile enogh for such purposes..
 
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