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Would Indians dare embrace Owaisi, the Patriot?

That slogan in its whole means worshipping "Bharat Mata" but sorry we only worship our Lord the Almighty.

I don't get your specific fixation on this slogan. There are many others, why you want us to utter this slogan specifically?

It makes no difference to me if you utter this slogan or not.

But it gives me a clear idea about the kind of "feelings" muslims like you have for India.

"Bharat Mata ki Jai" means "Victory to Mother India".

"Vande Mataram" means "Praise to Mother land (one and only)"

There is no "worship" in any of this slogan.
 
He isn't a patriot.....his brother holds regular meeting with young Muslim brothers and instigates hatred...in the recent meeting he called upon the youth to kill Atleast 2hindus
 
That slogan in its whole means worshipping "Bharat Mata" but sorry we only worship our Lord the Almighty.

I don't get your specific fixation on this slogan. There are many others, why you want us to utter this slogan specifically?

It makes no difference to me if you utter this slogan or not. The same way it makes no difference to me if some one stands up in a theatre for the National Anthem.

But it gives me a clear idea about the kind of feelings or lack of them, muslims like you have for India.

"Bharat Mata ki Jai" means "Victory to Mother India".

"Vande Mataram" means "Praise to Mother land (one and only)"

There is no "worship" in any of this slogan.


By this same logic, "Inqualb Zindabad" was written for overthrow of the rule of Kafir and establish a muslim Ummah.

Similarly the man who wrote "sare jaha se accha" was one of the people who broke hindustan into two. But unlike your kind, we do not practice or propagate bigotry or assign invisible restrictions on expressing our deep love for our Mother land.

He isn't a patriot.....his brother holds regular meeting with young Muslim brothers and instigates hatred...in the recent meeting he called upon the youth to kill Atleast 2hindus

His patriotism is a matter of convenience for him.

Same as Zakir Naik or M.F Hussain.

Which is why patriotism without Nationalism is always suspect.
 
It makes no difference to me if you utter this slogan or not.

But it gives me a clear idea about the kind of "feelings" muslims like you have for India.

"Bharat Mata ki Jai" means "Victory to Mother India".

"Vande Mataram" means "Praise to Mother land (one and only)"

There is no "worship" in any of this slogan.
Haha its not us who has brought religious connotations to those slogans rather your very own rss walas who have stated explicitly that "Bharat mata" is mother goddess and meant to be worshipped. To them the slogan is a veneration to their mother goddess.

As for the second one, its been penned by none other than Bankim Chandra Chatterjee in veneration of Hindu goddess. You are a Hindu so you should know its connotations.

You guys are quite quick to blame us for everything ignoring your own complicity

By this same logic, "Inqualb Zindabad" was written for overthrow of the rule of Kafir and establish a muslim Ummah.

Similarly the man who wrote "sare jaha se accha" was one of the people who broke hindustan into two. But unlike your kind, we do not practice or propagate bigotry or assign invisible restrictions on expressing our deep love for our Mother land.
These slogans don't invoke our Lord the Almighty that's why no one has problem with it
 
Haha its not us who has brought religious connotations to those slogans rather your very own rss walas who have stated explicitly that "Bharat mata" is mother goddess and meant to be worshipped. To them the slogan is a veneration to their mother goddess.

As for the second one, its been penned by none other than Bankim Chandra Chatterjee in veneration of Hindu goddess. You are a Hindu so you should know its connotations.

You guys are quite quick to blame us for everything ignoring your own complicity

How does it matter if "Bharat Mata" is "goddess" for RSS ?

Tomorrow if "Allah" becomes the devil for the RSS you will stop worshipping Allah too ?

Like the RSS, maybe Bharat Mata was goddess or maybe the Land of Bharat itself was the goddess for Bankim Chandra Chatterjee. After all India is our "holy land". So what ?

How does someone else's interpretation of "Bharat mata" become you own ? Not unless you are part of RSS.

Like I said, your "rationalisation" is fooling no one except yourself.

These slogans don't invoke our Lord the Almighty that's why no one has problem with it

But for a Hindu, it represents a call to brand them kafir and to establish a world order where they are second class citizen.

Similarly, the song by Iqbal is a lie and an exercise in hypocrisy.

Only we choose to look beyond such things and find the beauty in words.

The narrow minded find ugliness.

The mind sees what it wants to see.

That is why for some the River Ganga is "pure" and washes away all sins, while for others it is just another River.
 
How does it matter if "Bharat Mata" is "goddess" for RSS ?

Tomorrow if "Allah" becomes the devil for the RSS you will stop worshipping Allah too ?

Like the RSS, maybe Bharat Mata was goddess or maybe the Land of Bharat itself was the goddess for Bankim Chandra Chatterjee. After all India is our "holy land". So what ?

How does someone else's interpretation of "Bharat mata" become you own ? Not unless you are part of RSS.

Like I said, your "rationalisation" is fooling no one except yourself.
Okay listen I got better things to worry about than some slogan. If uttering some slogan is your yardstick for measuring loyalty then I got nothing to say
But for a Hindu, it represents a call to brand them kafir and to establish a world order where they are second class citizen.

Similarly, the song by Iqbal is a lie and an exercise in hypocrisy.

Only we choose to look beyond such things and find the beauty in words.

The narrow minded find ugliness.

The mind sees what it wants to see.

That is why for some the River Ganga is "pure" and washes away all sins, while for others it is just another River.
If the line "Long live the Revolution" offends you then don't say it
 
Okay listen I got better things to worry about than some slogan. If uttering some slogan is your yardstick for measuring loyalty then I got nothing to say

If the line "Long live the Revolution" offends you then don't say it

It is ONE of the yardstick for measuring Nationalism.

BTW the man who coined "Inqulab Zindabad" also had this to say about Indian muslims,

“Hindustan ka musalmaan communist ho sakta hai, ya communalist ho sakta hai. Woh nationalist nahin ho sakta.” Food for thought.
 
What is the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of Asaduddin Owaisi? As far as popular imagination goes, it mostly revolves around him being a firebrand politician known to stoke communal conflagrations in sensitive areas. The problem with this image is with the way "perceptions" are understood as some sort of concrete "reality". The inherent prejudice that a modern, Hindu, urban voter has about Muslims in general gets in the way of caricaturing Owaisi.

Our biases are stark and skin-deep when one thinks of this tall, sturdy bearded figure donning a skull cap and kurta. It is as if he is bound to be "like how most Muslims are". A more charitable, yet equally problematic take is to commend him by saying how he is not like normal Muslims!

Recently in Pune, Owaisi addressed a rally at a time the corporation elections are round the corner. He was initially rejected permission for the same by the police under the pretext that his speeches have communal overtones. This makes us wonder if those like the Thackerays never resorted to communal politics. When a Muslim talks of representing the interests of his community at large, the popular psyche gets jittery and nervous.

We start building a thread of naive presumptions about how damaging this is for democracy. Needless to say, this image of Owaisi being a communal polariser has been polished by the media. It fails to show what Owaisi actually thinks about the everyday concerns of the people and where he sees Indian Muslims in near future.

Consider this: in a recent interview to The Hindu, Owaisi made a really basic, yet remarkably significant statement. He said, “I speak the language of the constitution. I believe in the plurality and diversity of this country. Like others, I don't want to turn this country into a theological entity".

Not bad for a man who has largely been accused of circumventing the law by deploying parochial means to satiate his ideological goal. Be it his astute and shrewd remarks on the floor of the House or his well-mannered, polite and to-the-point arguments on TV debates, Owaisi steers away from being ideologically close to the attitude that the lunatic fringe of the Sangh Parivar boasts of.

One recalls the famous video clip of Owaisi, in which he categorically stated to moderators of a Pakistani news show that they should stop worrying about Indian Muslims as they had made their decision 60 years ago.

owaisi_021817033840.jpg

By projecting himself and his party as one that speaks for all Muslims, without any sectarian bias, Owaisi emerges as a beacon of new hope for some. [Photo: DailyO]
An Indian Muslim defending fellow Muslim citizens and the robust democratic apparatus of his own country in an enemy land should have actually spurred displays of patriotic support by the fellow citizens.

Of course, we never saw any of that as our nationalism, today, is contingent to the religion you belong to. We have happily internalised the vacuous distinction of "Good Muslim and Bad Muslim" where the good one always has to assimilate himself in the mainstream culture to prove his or her nationality. Doses of morality apply only to people like Owaisi who dare to speak about the virtues of the politics of difference.

Owaisi is a barrister who graduated with a degree from the UK. As one with a sharp mind and a tight grip on the changing realities, he very well understands the pulse of the young, aspirational Muslim. In fact, in more ways than one, his personal demeanor and career achievements - apart from his political life - are what the ordinary Muslim youth looks up to. Having said this, nobody is trying to hold a brief for him in the objective sense.

The image of him running Hyderabad almost as a political fiefdom, being ruthlessly radical in his solutions and attacking the opposition in their own language of venom and hatred has certainly limited and even accentuated the popular belief that non-Muslim voters have about him.

By falling for this perception, one forgets to acknowledge the progressive difference he associates himself with - which is in stark contradiction to the ideals of what someone like Raj Thackeray may espouse.

The way oratory is received in our country is anything but secular. When Raj Thackeray hurls invectives with callous disregard to his critiques, it is immediately lapped up as being a “fitting reply”. When Owaisi does the same, he is conveniently branded as a communalist.

This intensely Brahmanical logic goes back to what Ambedkar had said once, when the majority stakes a claim to power, it is secularism and when a minority claims its share of power, it is communalism!

If we can have parties catering to specific castes, regions, religions and ideologies, can we really have a problem with someone who is unabashed about his politics, which revolves around safeguarding the future prospects of his community?

Owaisi will find it extremely difficult to make his voice heard at the national level. Yet, by projecting himself and his party as one that speaks for all Muslims, without any sectarian bias, he emerges as a beacon of new hope for some. At the same time, by including Dalits in his intriguing slogan of "Jai Bheem, Jai Meem", he has shown the willingness to broaden the ambit of his political imagination.

By treating Dalits as a natural ally in his political project, he understands the merits of this integrationist politics, which vows for the collective emancipation of the marginalised groups at large.

It is for the prejudiced people to decide if they want to embrace Owaisi, the patriot.

http://www.dailyo.in/voices/asadudd...-muslims-bjp-sangh-parivar/story/1/15729.html
Nicely put... Shows the hypocrisy of some
 
Nationalism is taking PRIDE in one's Nation.

Without nationalism, patriotism is shallow and a matter of convenience.

A Nationalist remains a patriot even when he moves to another nation. A patriot shifts his allegiance when he shifts his place of residence.

One doe not aim to be either patriotic or nationalistic. These are feelings that one feels based on one's love for the country. No one "aims" to love a girl.
Your definitions are no different from a person who is recently being introduced to a particular word.
Let me try in a simpler and direct way.
Nationalism is showing allegiance to a "nation". Patriotism is showing allegiance to one's country.
If you find the difference between a nation and a country, you will understand how shallow is nationalism compared to patriotism, esp in the indian context.
If not, then you are free to dismiss my take on this and move on.
Your choice.
 
After asking the police to step away for 10 mins to cleanse the Hindu from their homeland there is no way I can consider him a patriot.

He is a radical to the core but just puts on the patriot coat to garner support of sickular people.
 
Your definitions are no different from a person who is recently being introduced to a particular word.
Let me try in a simpler and direct way.
Nationalism is showing allegiance to a "nation". Patriotism is showing allegiance to one's country.
If you find the difference, you will understand how shallow is nationalism compared to patriotism, esp in the indian context.
If not, then you are free to dismiss my take on this and move on.
Your choice.

Your definition shows your thinking.

You presume that muslims have "Arab" culture while Hindus have "Indian" culture :cheesy:

Indian muslims are people who's ancestors were very much Hindus, not arabs or turks or persian. So their culture is very much Indian and no amount of "arabic names" is going to alter your DNA or your past.

Patriotism without pride in one's nation is as hollow as being faithful to one's wife without loving her. A sham. A failed marriage that exist for the "sake of the kid". That is the extend of Owaisis "Patriotism" or anyone like him.
 
Your definition shows your thinking.

You presume that muslims have "Arab" culture while Hindus have "Indian" culture :cheesy:

Indian muslims are people who's ancestors were very much Hindus, not arabs or turks or persian. So their culture is very much Indian and no amount of "arabic names" is going to alter your DNA or your past.

Patriotism without pride in one's nation is as hollow as being faithful to one's wife without loving her. A sham. A failed marriage that exist for the "sake of the kid". That is the extend of Owaisis "Patriotism" or anyone like him.
All the examples you gave me are indeed laughable.
Let me simplify matters for your orange coloured brain.
Context : Germany
E.g. Hitler was a nationalist, while Albert Einstein was a patriot.
Nationalism is based on one nation, one idea, one religion, one language. It's glorifying a single culture, instead of many. Hence, you see for a country like india, if you pledge allegiance to a single community or sect (by definition it is called nationalism), you throw away a very integral part of the concept of india, unity in diversity.
You can see why the far right ppl always bay about nationalism and how it's an insult to the concept of india. Of course, if you bat for a Hindu india (coz our cultures are so different, india could simply not be a single country), then I can understand your bias towards "nationalism" while throwing the real thing-patriotism to obscurity.
Good day to you.

After asking the police to step away for 10 mins to cleanse the Hindu from their homeland there is no way I can consider him a patriot.

He is a radical to the core but just puts on the patriot coat to garner support of sickular people.
You are talking about the elder owaisi. He is a jerk at best.
 
There are innumerable patriotic muslims in India. But this guy Owaisi, while articulate and says the right things most of the times, seems however more to be using such articulations as a tactic to gain power rather than meaning them. At times you can see the undesirable fundamentalist islamic traits come out in his speeches. So yeah, not trustworthy.
 
All the examples you gave me are indeed laughable.
Let me simplify matters for your orange coloured brain.
Context : Germany
E.g. Hitler was a nationalist, while Albert Einstein was a patriot.
Nationalism is based on one nation, one idea, one religion, one language. It's glorifying a single culture, instead of many. Hence, you see for a country like india, if you pledge allegiance to a single community or sect (by definition it is called nationalism), you throw away a very integral part of the concept of india, unity in diversity.
You can see why the far right ppl always bay about nationalism and how it's an insult to the concept of india. Of course, if you bat for a Hindu india (coz our cultures are so different, india could simply not be a single country), then I can understand your bias towards "nationalism" while throwing the real thing-patriotism to obscurity.
Good day to you.

lol.....so your reply is to point to a White Christian nation and draw analogy ?

The good "old Godwin Law", the last resort of the incompetent.

Your "perfect" Patriot Albert Einstein abandoned his German Patriotism to adopt American Patriotism and then went on to promote Israeli Nationalism. :lol:

If that is your "hero", we can gauge the extend of your "Patriotism".

Hindus do not believe in "diversity" to then go an an seek a Fake "unity". That is a very Abrahamic concept that seeks to first divide people and then "unite" them under a common faith.

In Indian culture, A persons identity is decide by his Karma (hence his Varna), not his beliefs or practices. That is the Indian culture.

Our culture is as old as our Civilisation and that is Ancient by any measure. One of the oldest in the world. Our society is the caretaker of our past. And no amount of foreign values can corrode our core values, however flimsy it may appear on the outside.

India was and will continue to be a single Nation and a single country with a unique civilisation and culture that is rooted in Hinduism and all people born in this land are Hindus, irrespective of their faith.

Our ROOTS are deep and strong and the tree and its various branches will reflect that strength. Not the colour of the birds that make their nest in that tree.

No amount of burkha can hide this truth.
 
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lol.....so your reply is to point to a White Christian nation and draw analogy ?

The good "old Godwin Law", the last resort of the incompetent.

Your "perfect" Patriot Albert Einstein abandoned his German Patriotism to adopt American Patriotism and then went on to promote Israeli Nationalism. :lol:

If that is your "hero", we can gauge the extend of your "Patriotism".

Hindus do not believe in "diversity" to then go an an seek a Fake "unity". That is a very Abrahamic concept that seeks to first divide people and then "unite" them under a common faith.

In Indian culture, A persons identity is decide by his Karma (hence his Varna), not his beliefs or practices. That is the Indian culture.

Our culture is as old as our Civilisation and that is Ancient by any measure. One of the oldest in the world. Our society is the caretaker of our past. And no amount of foreign values can corrode our core values, however flimsy it may appear on the outside.

India was and will continue to be a single Nation and a single country with a unique civilisation and culture that is rooted in Hinduism and all people born in this land are Hindus, irrespective of their faith.

Our ROOTS are deep and strong and the tree and its various branches will reflect that strength. Not the colour of the birds that make their next in that tree.

No amount of burkha can hide this truth.
Ok .... whatever floats ur boat man.
 

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