World Concerns Over Shariah in Swat

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Let these comments be instructive to all those who think these kinds of ideas and people are open to "evolving", and that these people see Shariah as
anything other an instrument of totalitarian, Maoist, Tribal society -- Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge come to mind.

Once again, please do not distort my comments on a Shariah system in general, vs the dynamics that will play out in the context of the Talibna, Swat and Sufi Mohammed.

I have made no argument about Sufi Mohammed's 'good intentions' or otherwise.

In the context of Swat, I have already indicated that I am skeptical this arrangement will last given the stated positions of the Taliban.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's just your opinion. What matters is that the guys with the guns who say they are imposing Shariah say it does. And in case anybody disobeys them, they'll be driven out or their girls will be defaced with acid. Is there any example of a Shariah-ruled area successfully prosecuting the perpetrators of such deeds? No? Then the behavior of the enforcers is permitted and what they forbid is de facto prohibited - even if there isn't a law against it.

That woudl be true of any area where the law is enforced by whoever has the biggest gun and gets people to fear it. States inherently function on that basis.

The issue is then not one of "Shariah' but of ensuring that the State is the only 'gun in town'. Imposing Shariah is an attempted means to that end, whether or not it succeeds has little to do with Shariah, and a lot to do with the conditions the government will set and enforce.

 

[Flintlock]

That woudl be true of any area where the law is enforced by whoever has the biggest gun and gets people to fear it. States inherently function on that basis.

The issue is then not one of "Shariah' but of ensuring that the State is the only 'gun in town'. Imposing Shariah is an attempted means to that end, whether or not it succeeds has little to do with Shariah, and a lot to do with the conditions the government will set and enforce.

But the issue IS about imposing Sharia and its consequences.

The rest of your post simply repeats the obvious.

 

[muse]

Sir, is the distortion mine?? I do try not to distort, perhaps you can point out where and how, not being facious, I am genuinely confused by this statement and want to understand it.

Shariah system in general?? We don't even agree as what such a system is, how is to then open to distortion by me?

Every manner of politician will be arguing that this development is good for Pakistan - which in itself should cause alram bells to go off. However; as I said before if we do not know where we stand, we will become prey to these opportunists.

You will have noted Mr. Shahbaz Sharif's statement calling for a "new social contract" and " All federating units should be recognised as separate nationalities..."

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But the issue IS about imposing Sharia and its consequences.

The rest of your post simply repeats the obvious.

I don't see very many negative long term consequences, for the reasons I already outlined in my conversation with Solomon and others, so long as the GoP maintains its writ in Swat, and Shariah is implemented as part of a system with checks and balances.

If the GoP does not exercise control over Swat, and/or the Shariah system is essentially run by lackey's of Sufi Mohammed/the taliban with no oversight whatsoever, then I see a lot of problems.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sir, is the distortion mine?? I do try not to distort, perhaps you can point out where and how, not being facious, I am genuinely confused by this statement and want to understand it.

Shariah system in general?? We don't even agree as what such a system is, how is to then open to distortion by me?

Every manner of politician will be arguing that this development is good for Pakistan - which in itself should cause alram bells to go off. However; as I said before if we do not know where we stand, we will become prey to these opportunists.

Sir,

I took your comment about 'evolution' as being directed at my argument of a social and intellectual evolution driving a evolution in Islamic thought an therefore driving evolution in a hypothetical Shariah system.

You will have noted Mr. Shahbaz Sharif's statement calling for a "new social contract" and " All federating units should be recognised as separate nationalities..."

I think we disagree on this as well - you , Zyxius and I had a very interesting discussion on this issue. I tend to favor a decentralized model, given Pakistan's ethnic diversity, with provinces that have a large degree of autonomy.

 

[Flintlock]

Autonomy is fine, but separate nationalities?

 

[muse]

I took your comment about 'evolution' as being directed at my argument of a social and intellectual evolution driving a evolution in Islamic thought an therefore driving evolution in a hypothetical Shariah system.

It was directed at this comment, but how is that a distortion? If only Islamist thought in Pakistan and by extension Arabia, open to evolution - but from their stand point, it is "innovation" -- that is why they have neither Ijtihad nor do they posit that Sharaih is man made.


I think you may not realize the implication of the suggestion that Shariah is divine and not man made but if Pakistan survives, you may.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Autonomy is fine, but separate nationalities?

I would agree with Muse on this count.

Autonomy as an administrative unit is one thing, but arguing for separate nationalities tends to imply a dilution of the overall nationality of 'Pakistan'.

I have to wonder if SS sahib is a bit too hung up on the age old theory of 'Islam' being the sole uniting factor.

 

[muse]

The comment was made in Balouchistan where Shahbaz Sharif met with the chief minister

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Perhaps we should move away from discussing Shariah for a bit, to the actual conditions, enforcement mechanisms and potential disarmament of the Taliban under this agreement.

Indian agents to be wiped out from Swat
Wednesday, February 18, 2009
By Ansar Abbasi

ISLAMABAD: The NWFP administration and Maulana Sufi Muhammad would immediately move to wipe out the RAW elements and criminals from the Malakand division as the government had sufficient evidence of Indian involvement in the Swat lawlessness, a source told The News.

The key NWFP government source, who has been involved in the successful negotiations between Tanzim Nifaz Shariat-e-Muhammadi (TNSM) chief Maulana Sufi Muhammad and the ANP government, further revealed that it was agreed in the talks that all the closed schools in the area would be reopened, the Army would not be withdrawn and the police would be redeployed at all the police stations to ensure the writ of the government.

The source said the RAW elements and criminals had been involved in kidnapping for ransom, dacoities and blackmailing in the troubled areas of Swat. “We have even caught the RAW agents, both alive and dead,” the source said.

The source held the RAW agents and local criminals responsible for most of the crimes in the area, saying they were also involved in attacks on military targets. With the inking of the peace agreement between Maulana Sufi Muhammad and the provincial government, the source said, these elements would be cornered immediately and wiped out to make Swat crime free as it once used to be.

Dispelling the impression that the Taliban would be running the show in the Malakand division following the Monday’s agreement, the source said Maulana Sufi Muhammad, in return for the acceptance of the longstanding demand of enforcing the Nizam-e-Adl Regulation, had asked for the introduction of a strong administrative system in the area to ensure the writ of the government.

The Maulana has demanded of the appointment of clean, strong, impartial policemen and civilian administration officials in the area to ensure that the signed agreement is implemented in letter and spirit.

The system of district magistracy is likely to be introduced in Swat immediately for which the governor would have to de-notify a 2002 notification.The executive officers are also expected to be entrusted with the kind of powers previously enjoyed by the Nawabs and the Walis in the area.

A committee comprising MPs of the area, elders, representatives of the local administration and the TNSM would be set up to review and monitor the implementation of the agreement. As agreed between the two sides, Maulana Sufi Muhammad would visit Swat and start addressing rallies soon after the agreement gets implemented.

The Maulana would personally help the redeployment of police personnel at the police stations, which were abandoned during the recent weeks and months because of growing influence of the Taliban there.

He would also mobilise the people to bring peace in the area and flush out all the unwanted elements. Maulana Sufi Muhammad did not ask for the withdrawal of the Army from the area during the negotiations, the source said, adding that he had rather given his consent for the presence of the Army in the Malakand-Swat areas till the time the government desired so.

The source said those in the government, who had played a pivotal role in making possible what was announced on Monday, included ANP Secretary Information Zahid Khan, NWFP Information Minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain, Minister for Livestock Haji Hidayatullah and Hazara Commissioner Syed Muhammad Javed.
Indian agents to be wiped out from Swat

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The comment was made in Balouchistan where Shahbaz Sharif met with the chief minister

So I noted - perfect audience for his comments.

 

[Flintlock]

Can we have a more credible source than news.com.pk?

 

[Flintlock]

Belgium: NATO Objects to Pakistan Truce With Taliban

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 17, 2009

NATO warned Tuesday that a truce between the Pakistani government and Taliban militants in a restive region near the Afghan border risked giving the extremists a “safe haven.” The truce effectively ceded the Swat Valley to the Taliban and ended Pakistan’s military effort to defeat them there. Many NATO troops face attacks by fighters for the Taliban and Al Qaeda who are believed to be taking refuge in pockets of Pakistan’s northwest. “We should all be concerned by a situation in which extremists would have a safe haven,” a NATO spokesman, James Appathurai, said in Brussels. “Without doubting the good faith of the Pakistani government, it is clear that the region is suffering very badly from extremists, and we would not want it to get worse.”

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Belgium: NATO Objects to Pakistan Truce With Taliban

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 17, 2009

NATO warned Tuesday that a truce between the Pakistani government and Taliban militants in a restive region near the Afghan border risked giving the extremists a “safe haven.” The truce effectively ceded the Swat Valley to the Taliban and ended Pakistan’s military effort to defeat them there. Many NATO troops face attacks by fighters for the Taliban and Al Qaeda who are believed to be taking refuge in pockets of Pakistan’s northwest. “We should all be concerned by a situation in which extremists would have a safe haven,” a NATO spokesman, James Appathurai, said in Brussels. “Without doubting the good faith of the Pakistani government, it is clear that the region is suffering very badly from extremists, and we would not want it to get worse.”

Prophetic words , IMO
The Pak army has been drawn into a tactical retreat. Fight in Swat and alienate large chunks of the population. Another area of Pakistan will now remain lawless and the perogative of insular narrow minded mullahs with their own version of Sharia and more ruthless butchery of common people !!
All this , 100 miles away from Islamabad ! Just waiting for the day when this Mullah Sufi declares war on the infidel state of Pakistan for having common law and women getting an education !!