Women: Pakistan’s second-class citizens

[Raja.Pakistani]

No I dont, you win..

lol funny

We are not not playing one day cricket match here so winning and losing is out of the question

well i would like it more if you don't agree with me and bring criticism so that we can continue this topic further

 

[SHAMK9]

On my part, hence forth, I will be more conscious of the rights of our women & ensure that they're protected - I promise !

Our women are the best in the world & they deserve so much better from us - the Pakistani Men !

 

[Armstrong]

Bera Gharak !

 

[livingdead]

lol funny

We are not not playing one day cricket match here so winning and losing is out of the question

well i would like it more if you don't agree with me and bring criticism so that we can continue this topic further

well the thing I am disagreeing about is so fundamental, I dont see how I can argue about it. The idea that a male member 'toils hard' to bring food for women folks and care for rest of women is a traditional patriarchial setup. I have no doubt that in our society we love our mom, our sister or daughter.
That is never the issue. Its what we do with such love is the issue.

Equal opprtunity for women is key to women's empowerment, which means equal level of freedom to chase their dream. That is something western society has tried hard to achieve. If I was an woman, I would prefer to live in a society where I am treated as any other, than treated as some precious flower.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

...............

I'm sorry for whatever part I my have played, knowingly or unknowingly, in perpetuating a Second-Class Status for Our Women !

On my part, hence forth, I will be more conscious of the rights of our women & ensure that they're protected - I promise !

Our women are the best in the world & they deserve so much better from us - the Pakistani Men !

.................................

The important thing to do is to lead by example. For example, respecting ladies no matter how rude or mistaken they might be is sign of good training by parents and we must always practice that. Little by little attitudes will change.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

well the thing I am disagreeing about is so fundamental, I dont see how I can argue about it. The idea that a male member 'toils hard' to bring food for women folks and care for rest of women is a traditional patriarchial setup. I have no doubt that in our society we love our mom, our sister or daughter.
That is never the issue. Its what we do with such love is the issue.

Equal opprtunity for women is key to women's empowerment, which means equal level of freedom to chase their dream. That is something western society has tried hard to achieve. If I was an woman, I would prefer to live in a society where I am treated as any other, than treated as some precious flower.

My friend its very simple. Men in our society are expected to take the financial responsibility of women without any choice. People will not give any lesson to women about equality and sharing equal financial responsibility of men but instead they will blame men if he don't bring any food on table. More rights come with more responsibilities. Western women get more rights/choices but then they also play equal part in sharing the responsibilities of men. Men in western countries have less burden of responsibility than men in our society

I also witnessed that western society and their family system is getting worse because of this too much freedom which people misuse most of the time. It is also free choice of women to be objectified in the hands of man. Is it better choice? Sleeping with as many man as you like is also free choice but Is it any better than doing traditional role of staying home and looking after your family?

 

[livingdead]

My friend its very simple. Men in our society are expected to take the financial responsibility of women without any choice. People will not give any lesson to women about equality and sharing equal financial responsibility of men but instead they will blame men if he don't bring any food on table. More rights come with more responsibilities. Western women get more rights/choices but then they also play equal part in sharing responsibilities of men. Men in western countries has less burden of responsibility than men in our society

I also witnessed that western society and their family system is getting worse because of this too much freedom which people misuse most of the time. It is also free choice of women to be objectified in the hands of man. Is it better choice? Sleeping with as many man as you like is also free choice but Is it any better than doing traditional role of staying home and looking after your family?

yet again, If I was an woman, I would rather have multiple sexual partner, marry the person I love and stay with him till we both want to, and be an equal partner. There can never be too much freedom. And yes, I want to be responsible as well as free. Because I am empowered, I can only be objectified if I want to, and sometimes I might want to take advantage of it. why not. Its in my hands.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

yet again, If I was an woman, I would rather have multiple sexual partner, marry the person I love and stay with him till we both want to, and be an equal partner. There can never be too much freedom. And yes, I want to be responsible as well as free.

I was asking why people do not tell women in our society to share financial responsibility of men the way western women does before talking about equality and what is guarantee that you would be more happy and satisfied after having all these experience of multiple sex partners and one night stands ? You have no problem if women decide to be objectified in the hand of men by choice but if she play traditional role then she would become less equal to men

What you mean by equal partner ? You mean if a man decide to walk without t shirt then you would be doing the same if you were woman or you would be peeing while standing the way man does .Why only men should pay for expenses of child when you both have mutual sex and you get pregnant ? Where is equality here? what about laws of abortion who favour women more than men in Western countries ?

 

[Spring Onion]

.1 WHAT IS A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN? if anyone can kindly explain and who is a FIRST CLASS CITIZEN? then i can comment on the entire title.


2. The karak episode was already posted by us many days back when it was reported. Discussed and already debunked the notion by women.

3. I see a more vibrant mixure of society even in conservative parts of my Province KPK . Cant say about other ,they can come up and argue about theirs.

4. I had gew up in Peshawar seeing scrit laden foreign ladies. Music, liberal outfits along with conservative outfits depends on everybody's own cultureal sensitivities.

5. I still love my city and refused to settle aboroad, refused and let go many chances of gettingyears and years long foreign scholarships as well as citizenship. WHY? do i want to be a "SECOND class citizen"? whatever that phrase meanse as i really am amused to see this phrase and its phobia among our DESI inferiority complexed "SUBCONTINENTIES".

6. Not because of the above phrase but to prove this phrase wrong and show that NO we are NOT slaves neither we will bowdown to such behaviour.

7. Today i see burqas are worn in my city not because of conservitims but for fashion and in a bid to defying the "second class citizen phrase" and go on dates thronging parks, cafes, resturants, even cinema houses if any left at all in my city.

8. Today i see the most conservative families' girls fulfill their desire to wear a JEANS under a burqa today is ee my city is coming up with western attire including jeans, tights altered a bit to eastern touch and making acceptable to even FUNDOOS.


9. AND i grew up seeing women undergarments displayed openly in my city's bazaars. the funniest it might look to Westerners or foreigners that how bras and bikines and penties are hanging all around in the bazaar if that counts for freedom?? mehhh idiots.


10 last but not the least a para from the same wrong titles write up is enough to sum it up Despite numerous challenges, women have recently made strides in Pakistan. The first female jirga in Swat is a recent step in the right direction. Women have joined the Pakistan Army, Air Force and also climbed Mount Everest. Although the Burqa Avenger’s costume has received a mixed reaction, there is even a new female superhero on the scene to save girls’ education.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...an-s-second-class-citizens.html#ixzz2ah0PHcdf

 

[EAK]

The source is the stats presented by your govt in your NA... As I said, I dont want to spoil this thread.. Look it up in my past posts...Google is your friend..

As i said just hwai fire

 

[karan.1970]

As i said just hwai fire

whatever floats your boat..

 

[Argus Panoptes]

.1 WHAT IS A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN? if anyone can kindly explain and who is a FIRST CLASS CITIZEN? then i can comment on the entire title...............

As I understand this topic, classes of citizens are determined by equality before the law and privileges accorded by society in terms of rights and responsibilities.

If women in Pakistan enjoy equality by law, and have the privileges as the men, then they are not second class citizens. If.

 

[T-123456]

You don't need to be in Karak to be made to feel like a second class citizen.

The men and women in Pakistan will re-inforce this every single day.

Our society cannot be changed and this is how it will remain. The only thing that can be done is to suffer in silence or leave this country.

You should not give up,evrything can change.
Its not a coin that you can flip over.
It took centuries for the western countries to change.
There are lots of people who want change and eventualy it will.
I think the most Pakistanis on PDF are forward thinking on this issue,thats a good start.
Take it from here and move towards a better society for women(for all).
You need men and women to build a country.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Now this is not Karachi we are talking about. We are talking about Karak KPK. This is the most backward area of Pakistan.

yes, no honor killings happen in big cities of Pakistan... convenient

 

[Sv01]

I was asking why people do not tell women in our society to share financial responsibility of men the way western women does before talking about equality and what is guarantee that you would be more happy and satisfied after having all these experience of multiple sex partners and one night stands ? You have no problem if women decide to be objectified in the hand of men by choice but if she play traditional role then she would become less equal to men

What you mean by equal partner ? You mean if a man decide to walk without t shirt then you would be doing the same if you were woman or you would be peeing while standing the way man does .Why only men should pay for expenses of child when you both have mutual sex and you get pregnant ? Where is equality here? what about laws of abortion who favour women more than men in Western countries ?

So all what you said above is exactly product of a patriarchal society and a patriarchal mindset. Your question on 'why women are asked to not share responsibility' etc etc is because it is a patriarchal society and women are considered possessions. Women equality is not about what clothes she wears and how she pees.... Equality is about society treating all citizens equally.
A non patriarchal society educates and empowers its women and trusts them to make their own choices and be responsible for themselves.... Whether it is to have multiple sex partners, whether she gets pregnant, falls in love, decides to do a job or decides to stay at home.... She has the freedom and opportunity to make all those choices and is expected to take responsibility for the consequences....very similar to the freedom a man would want. I, as a woman, do not look for guarantees that I will be happy.... But I would much rather lead a life where I know that my happiness or misery is a consequence of my own choices instead of someone else's decisions about my life, that I am free to decide my own path. I also do not want to be someone else's symbol of honor or barometer of morality because that is again my objectification. There is much more joy in knowing that I am capable and empowered to take care of myself as against the feeling of being dependent on someone else for my financial needs and safety.