Will Paf go for KC-135 or A310 MRTT?

[Mani2020]

Here is an article which i got while searching on net ,bit old but i hope its not been posted before ,if it is posted before then sorry 4 that in advance


ISLAMABAD - Pakistan has sought to improve its air mobility capability as international commitments and domestic operations have grown. To date, this has mainly consisted of ex-Australian C-130E Hercules transports. However, beginning next year, programs to renew and expand current abilities should begin to come to fruition.

The most high-profile aspect of Pakistan's air mobility modernization is the Pakistan Air Force Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) program. Four Il-78 Midas aircraft from the Ukraine, equipped with a three-point drogue refueling system, will introduce this capability.

Though an Air Force spokesman could not verify the exact variant on order, he did confirm it was the tanker/transport and not the pure tanker version of the Midas.

Its 22,000-kilogram cargo capacity will bring considerable airlift capabilities, akin to the highly versatile Il-76 Candid, on which the Midas is based. The first aircraft is due to arrive early next year, he said.

The Air Force also is exploring the acquisition of tanker/transport aircraft from other sources. One reason is that the Il-78 is not equipped with a boom refueling facility, and therefore is unable to refuel the Air Force's most potent combat aircraft, the F-16. To rectify this, the Air Force is exploring the possibility of acquiring surplus U.S. KC-135 Stratotankers.

During an appearance before the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs subcommittee on South Asia on Sept. 16, Donald Camp, principal deputy assistant secretary for South Asian affairs, stated that the United States is "finalizing a comprehensive training plan" to help Pakistan with its F-16 operations, including aerial refueling.

No clarification from American military sources, however, was forthcoming on whether this would also include surplus Stratotankers.

According to defense analyst Haris Khan of the Web-based think tank Pakistan Military Consortium, Pakistan has also examined alternatives to the KC-135. European defense group EADS "has been talking to [the Air Force] to supply Airbus A330 MRTTs. However, the [Air Force] has been insisting on an MRTT capability built on an A310, which is no longer in production."

The reason for insistence on the A310 is Pakistan International Airline's long experience with the A310-300, he said. There may therefore be a more attractive long-term option to the KC-135.

Improvements in air mobility are not restricted to MRTTs. Pakistan is also establishing an airborne division. The Army has long sought to improve its air mobility, which has traditionally been a weak spot. The Army needs to support operations in the Siachen Glacier and Kashmir theaters of operations, in the ongoing standoff with archrival India; against al-Qaida and the Taliban on the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier; and right down to the coastal areas.

The commitment on "the Frontier" in itself has pushed the Army to invest heavily in helicopters due to the difficult terrain. Recent acquisitions have included 24 Bell-412EPs, 10 AS 550 Fennecs, 35-plus Mi-17 Hips and several UH-1 Huey transport and utility helicopters.

As Khan stated, however, the Army is still looking to buy more Mi-17s, plus Mi-35 Hinds, CH-47 Chinooks and one dedicated version of a gunship helicopter, to establish an airborne division.

In connection with this, Pakistan is seeking further transport/utility types from America. According to Col. Robin Fontes, chief of the Security Assistance Office, Office of the Defense Representative at the American Embassy here, the U.S. military will shortly confer with the Pakistan Army to determine its "current and future aviation requirements. Once those requirements are defined, we will be able to recommend the most appropriate model(s) of transport/utility helicopters that meet the needs of the Pakistan Army."

The question of acquiring Chinooks is another long, drawn-out saga, as Pakistan had initially hoped to establish a heavy-lift capability through their acquisition in 1989. U.S. military sanctions in 1990, however, ended these efforts. Not only do these serve as vital force multipliers when it comes to air mobility, but also in disaster relief.

The absence of a heavy-lift capability was sorely felt in the relief operations following the earthquake that rocked the country in October 2005. U.S. Navy CH-53E Super Stallions and U.S. and British Chinooks instead did a sterling job in providing heavy-lift assistance under the wistful gaze of Pakistan's own rotary aviators.

Now, according to Khan, six stored CH-47Cs have recently been released for sale to Pakistan by Italy. It is uncertain if they will be purchased, but they currently represent Pakistan's best option of acquiring a heavy-lift capability.

Source: Pakistan Eyes Boost in Transport, Lift - Defense News

 

[Mani2020]

So what do you guys think?

 

[Mani2020]

Another report says


The world's principal tanker is still the Eisenhower-era, 146,285-kg Boeing KC-135, which carries 90,700 kg of fuel. It transfers fuel primarily via a Boeing 'flying boom' at 2700 kg/min. This boom may be fitted with a short hose-and-drogue unit to refuel US Navy and Marine Corps (and Allied) aircraft, but many KC135s now have two 1900 kg/min Sargent-Fletcher underwing pods for this role. Most KC-135s have been re-engined with CFM International F108s (CFM56-281), bringing them to KC-135RFF standard.

The US Air Force has over 530 KC135s serving alongside 59 larger (265,500 kg) McDonnell Douglas KC-10s, each of which can carry 160,200 kg of fuel. The KC-10 boom transfers fuel at 3600 kg/min, and it also has an 1800-kg/min fuselage-mounted hose-drum unit.

[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]

Approximately 62 Boeing 707-based tankers are (or have been) operated by Brazil, Chile, Colombia, France, Iran, Israel, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Africa, Spain, Turkey and Venezuela. Pakistan is trying to acquire ex-US Air Force KC-135s. Israel Aerospace Industries' Bedek still offers 707 (among other) tanker conversions. Production of the KC-135 ended in 1965.

Replacement of the massive US Air Force tanker fleet is expected to take more than 35 years, hence starting the programme is the service's top acquisition priority, as it must ensure the last KC-135 is retired before it dies of old age.

Source: Top it up, please! Air-to-air refuelling extends the endurance of patrolling aircraft, increases the radius of strike aircraft and makes passible safer, longer-range deployments. Today more than ever, the latter consideration is taking all its signif

 

[Rank]

Better to save money for:

Airforce (JXX, J10 and F16s blc with huge amount in 5 - 7 years + also save for 4 + 6 KC 135)
Save money for C130 or Chineez Y20 (its better)
Army Aviation (Save money for Cobra AH 1Z super Viper around 50 - 100 next 5 - 7 years) its enough for us
Navy (Nuke subs and Chineez Frigates + Sqd for Navy with Mirage 2000 or JF17 Blck II)

IMO Pakistan Military forces should save all of her money atleast for 5 - 6 years and thn go for BLAST! ....

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Interesting dvelopments are quiet a few:
New gen Gunship.
Heavy lift chopers
More Mi-16s,Mi-35 hind????????
Chinooks.I say awesome.

 

[Mani2020]

NOT sure, why we need KC-135??

What about CFT-Conformal Fuel Tanks (additional fuel tanks) that would fit on F-16 Blk52........that's it.

only the new 18 ones will probably have CFT's but the previously delivered 42 f-16's dont have CFT's and neither they will have even after upgrades ,So these numbers are more than the numbers with CFT's plus there is also a chance that Paf may buy more of these older versions which will also not have CFT's ,In order to refuel them Paf should have something like A-310 MRTT or Kc-135

 

[Waffen SS]

One also needs to remember that CFTs create a huge aerodynamic drag, so a facility for aerial refuelling for our VIPERS is essential.

Probably, when these Block 52 + machines are on bombing missions in FATA where there is minimal air threat if any; the CFTs will be handy.

But in a highly hostile environment riddled with SAMs and enemy interceptors, CFTs might hinder manueverability to perform evasive actions.

In such a combat scenario, the air refuelling tankers will be force multipliers. It is not only the number of aircrafts that matter, their mission capability in terms of hours on station and number of missions per 24 hours does matter.

What if we need 24/7 CAPs (combat air patrols). The Vipers would be able to stay in the air for longh hours, if needed.

We perhaps get carried away by weapon platforms but these support units (may be termed as accessories) are an absolutely vital component of the war machine.

 

[Mani2020]

Also our enemy has bigger territory as compared to our's so their atomic and other important installations will be deep inside their territory coz of the fact that neither of Paf's aircraft has the ability to reach there and destroy them,so in order to reach deep inside enemy's territory we must need air refuelers in large numbers so we can refuel our aircrafts and increase theircombat radius

 

[Super Falcon]

sir our F 16 dont have big tanks in it this photo is of blk 60 we are gtiing blk 52 and we are going for KC 135

 

[umair86]

1 or 2 KC135 are enough for F-16 fleet

 

[TOPGUN]

I agree i always stated we need two tankers for our f-16's.. but what can we get or will get who knows..

 

[Super Falcon]

atleast 4 of them will be goood

 

[Super Falcon]

The Airbus Industrie A310 MRTT is a wide-bodied multi-role tanker transport aircraft derived from the Airbus A310-300 civil passenger and transport aircraft.

It is powered by either General Electric CF6-80C2 or Pratt and Whitney PW 4152 engines. The A310 MRTT is capable of being readily converted to the following roles: air-to-air refuelling tanker, all-cargo transporter, medical evacuation aircraft, and an all-passenger transporter or combination of VIP, passenger and cargo transporter.

Four A310 MRTT aircraft are in service with the German Air Force. The first took its maiden flight in December 2003 and was delivered in October 2004. The A310 were already in service with the German AF as transports and aircraft conversion for in-flight refuelling was carried out by Airbus Deutschland and Lufthansa Technik.

EADS delivered the first A310 MRTT fitted with a new mission avionics package to the German Air Force in June 2007. The new mission avionics allows the A310 MRTT allocation to the NATO Reaction Forces.

Two A310 aircraft of the Canadian Air Force have been converted to the MRTT configuration. The aircraft are designated CC-150 Polaris. The first was delivered in October 2004.

For the air-to-air refuelling (tanker) role, the aircraft is equipped with five centre fuel tanks or Additional Centre Tanks (ACT), and with hose and drogue pods under the outer wings. The total fuel capacity is up to 96,920l (25,605USgl), which corresponds to 77,500kg (171,000lb).

In an all-cargo transport role, the maximum non-fuel payload is 37t (81,600lb). For the troop transport role, the aircraft can provide up to 214 seats. In a combined cargo / troop transport, 12 pallets and 54 troops can be carried.

COCKPIT

The multi-role tanker transport is operated by a flight crew of three for all missions relating to Air-to-Air Refuelling (AAR): two pilots and the AAR operator. The AAR operator station is located in the cockpit just behind the captain. The two pilots have direct access to the majority of the information and controls concerning the AAR operational and safety aspects.

The pilots' stations are equipped with all interfaces for control and monitoring of the ACT tanks, formation and rendezvous lights, and military avionics. This configuration allows a mission to be carried out with the AAR operator's station switched off.

"In a combined cargo / troop transport, 12 pallets and 54 troops can be carried."The AAR operator's station is equipped with a fuel control panel, with fuel pump controls and fuel quantity indicators, and a dual pod control panel. The AAR operator is responsible for control of the aircraft's rendezvous beacons and tanker illumination lights during air-to-air refuelling. The optional external video monitoring system uses infrared floodlighting for day-and-night monitoring of refuelling operations.

TANKER SYSTEMS

The MRTT is capable of transferring 33t of fuel during a 3,000nm trail operation or 40t of fuel at 1,000nm with two hours on station. Fuel transfer during air-to-air refuelling is achieved by using the aircraft's centre tank as a collector tank. The fuel management system and the centre of gravity computer ensure automatic tank sequencing, centre of gravity control and engine fuel feed control.

A dual refuelling pod system is installed, consisting of two Flight Refuelling Ltd Mk 32B pods mounted on pylons under each wing and a control panel in the AAR operator's station. The total-fuel-on-board, fuel-for-dispense and individual tank quantities are displayed, together with flow rate, temperature and total fuel transferred during in-flight refuelling. Two aircraft can be refueled at the same time. 15,000l of fuel can be transferred a minute.

A flying boom system can be installed, which is capable of transferring fuel at a rate of 1,200USgl/min. Two central Hose Drum Units (HDU) installed side by side in the lower aft fuselage will each be capable of dispensing 800USgl of fuel a minute.

CARGO SYSTEMS

The fuselage accommodates four separate cargo compartments. The large main deck compartment is loaded though a wide door on the forward left side of the fuselage. The door can be opened to the vertical position to allow loading by crane. The other three cargo compartments are below deck. Containerised and palletised loads with a pallet height up to 96in can be carried. Containers and pallets are moved by an electrically powered drive system and are locked manually.

In an air hospital role, the A310 MRTT can take up to six intensive care units and 56 stretcher cases.

"The MMTT fuselage accommodates four separate cargo compartments."AVIONICS

The tanker aircraft is equipped with the avionics systems installed in the A310-300 civil aircraft to ensure the operation of the tanker under civil air traffic control. The military avionics systems installed on the tanker are the V/UHF system, an IFF system and an AIR TACAN. The V/UHF system allows the aircraft to operate within the military air space control system.

The avionics suite can include a Global Positioning System (GPS), satellite communications, an Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) and a Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS).


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Artist's impression of the Airbus MRTT, a wide-bodied, multi-role tanker transport based on the Airbus A310-300, shown refuelling two strike aircraft.

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For the air-to-air refuelling (Tanker) role, the aircraft is equipped with five centre fuel tanks or Additional Centre Tanks (ACTs).

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The MRTT fuel systems.

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Both a flying boom system for the transfer of fuel and a receptacle for receiving fuel can be made available.

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The pilot's station.

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Hose and drogue pods are situated under the outer wings.

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MRTT cockpit layout.

 

[Super Falcon]

In January 2004, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced the selection of the AirTanker consortium under a private finance initiative arrangement to provide air-to-air refuelling services for the UK's Army, Navy and Air Force. The programme is known as the future strategic tanker aircraft (FSTA) programme. In February 2005, AirTanker was confirmed as Preferred Bidder for the FSTA.

In June 2007, the UK MoD approved the private finance intiative (PFI) for 14 A330-200 tankers, under which AirTanker will own and support the aircraft while the RAF will fly the aircraft and have total operational control. In March 2008, the UK MoD placed a 27-year contract for the 14 aircraft to enter service in 2011.

"The A330-200 tanker transporters will replace the RAF's fleet of 26 VC-10 and Tristar tanker aircraft."The AirTanker Consortium is led by EADS with a 40% share, and also includes Cobham (13.33%), Rolls-Royce (20%), Thales (13.33%) and VT Aerospace (13.33%).

The tanker transporters will replace the RAF's fleet of 26 VC-10 and Tristar tanker aircraft which are approaching the end of operational life.

The MoD air-to-air refuelling programme will cover a 27-year service period and represents the world's largest defence private financing initiative arrangement. The contract includes options to extend the service for a further period.

The consortium will convert and own the A330-200 multi-role tanker transporter (MRTT) aircraft. The consortium is responsible for certifying and maintaining the aircraft and also for the provision of crew training for the RAF and the provision of sponsored reservist aircrews to supplement RAF crew when required.

In April 2004, Australia also selected the A330-200 MRTT for the AIR 5402 requirement for five aircraft. The MRTT, designated the KC-30B, will replace Australia's Boeing 707 tanker transporters. In June 2006, Airbus delivered the first A330 platform to EADS CASA in Madrid for conversion. First flight of the KC-30 for Australia was in June 2007. The aircraft are planned to enter service from 2009.

In February 2007, the A330 MRTT was selected by the United Arab Emirates. The contract was placed in February 2008 for three aircraft to enter service from 2011.

In January 2008, Saudi Arabia placed an order for three A330 MRTT aircraft. The aircraft will be fitted with the EADS air refuelling boom system (ARBS) and hose and drogue refuelling pods.

The A330-200 MRTT has a sufficiently high cruise speed and large internal fuel capacity to fly 4,000km, refuel six fighter aircraft en route and carry 43t of non-fuel cargo. Similarly, the aircraft could give away 68t of fuel during two hours on station at a range of 1,000nm.

In February 2008, the KC-30 (since redesignated the KC-45), a tanker based on the A330, was chosen for the US Air Force KC-X next-generation tanker requirement to replace the KC-135. Northrop Grumman led the KC-30 team with EADS as major subcontractor. An appeal by competitor Boeing was upheld and in September 2008, the US Department of Defense cancelled the competition, citing the need to defer any decision for the next presidential administration taking power in January 2008.

Deployment

The company AirTanker Services Ltd will operate and maintain the fleet of A330-200 MRTT aircraft. VT Group, the support services integrator, will be based at RAF Brize Norton.

On military operations the aircraft will be flown by Royal Air Force aircrew. When not in military service the aircraft can be leased for commercial use and operated by civilian aircrew.

It is envisaged that the fleet will be managed in three groups. A majority will be in full time military service with the RAF. Another group will be in military service during the weekdays, switching to commercial use at the weekend, and the other aircraft will be in full-time commercial use but available to the RAF in times of crisis.

Manufacture and conversion

The standard A330-200 commercial aircraft will be built at the Airbus manufacturing centre at Toulouse. The aircraft are to be transferred to Cobham manufacturing facilities at Bournemouth International Airport, UK, for conversion to the tanker transporter variant and aircraft certification will be carried out by QinetiQ at Boscombe Down.

"The A330-200 MRTT has a sufficiently high cruise speed and large internal fuel capacity to fly 4,000km."All the aircraft will be capable of being fitted with two Cobham FRL 900E Mark 32B refuelling pods, one under each wing. Some aircraft will receive a third centreline underbelly refuelling system.

The A330-200 wing shares the same design structure including the strengthened mounting points as that of the four-engine A340 aircraft. The wing positions for mounting the air-to-air refuelling pods therefore require minimal modification.

The aircraft's fuel system includes the installation of additional pipework and controls.

The baseline commercial aircraft uses a configuration of very high capacity fuel tanks in the wings so modifications to the fuel tanks for the tanker transporter role are not required.

Other than the refuelling systems, the main areas of modifications are the installation of plug-in and removable military avionics, military communications and a defensive aids suite. The military systems will be removed when the aircraft is in commercial non-military use. The passenger cabin and the cargo compartment are not altered.

The lower deck cargo compartment can hold six 88in x 108in Nato standard pallets plus two LD3 containers. The civil cargo load could be 28 LD3 containers or eight 96in×125in pallets plus two LD3 containers.

Refuelling
The aircraft has a maximum fuel capacity of 139,090l or 111t. The high fuel capacity enables the aircraft to fly at longer ranges, to stay on station longer and to refuel more aircraft, which increases the basing options and reduces forces reliance on host nation support. For the UK requirement the aircraft is fitted with a hose and drogue system but will be fitted with a refuelling boom system for the Australian order.

Cobham is providing the air refuelling equipment including the 905E wing pods and a fuselage refuelling unit. Cobham also supplies antennae, cockpit control systems, oxygen and fuel system units and composite components for all Airbus A330 aircraft.

The QinetiQ AirTanker support team carried out an air refuelling trial of the A330-200 aircraft on 28 October 2003. The test involved assessing the handling qualities of the Tornado aircraft flown in a number of representative refuelling positions astern the wing and centreline refuelling stations. The two-hour flight test included various approaches to the refuelling positions and exploring displacements vertically and laterally from the normal refuelling position.

The trial was carried out in between 15,000ft and 20,000ft and at 280kt which is the middle of the Tornado's refuelling envelope. Within this test envelope there was minimum turbulence in the airflow astern the A330-200 and the Tornado's handling qualities were very satisfactory in all tested positions.

"The high fuel capacity enables the aircraft to fly at longer ranges, to stay on station longer and to refuel more aircraft."Flight deck
The flight deck of the A330 is similar to that of the A340. The tanker transporter aircraft cockpit has a refuelling officer's station behind the pilot and co-pilot seats.

The electronic flight information system has six large interchangable displays with duplicated primary flight and navigation displays (PFD and ND) and electronic centralised aircraft monitors (ECAM). The pilot and co-pilot positions have sidestick controllers and rudder pedals. The aircraft is equipped with an Airbus future navigation system (FANS-A), including a Honeywell flight management system and Smiths digital control and display system.

The fly-by-wire computer suite includes three flight control primary computers and two flight control secondary computers, all operating continuously.

UK tankers are being fitted with the Northrop Grumman large aircraft infrared countermeasures system (LAIRCM).

Cargo and passengers

Even with a full fuel load, the aircraft has the capacity to carry 43t of cargo. The aircraft can carry up to 285 passengers.

Engines

The aircraft for the UK are powered by two Rolls-Royce Trent 772B jet engines, each providing 71,100lb of thrust. The aircraft for Australia are powered by GE CF6-80E1 engines, rated at 72,000lb thrust.

The auxiliary power unit is a Hamilton Sundstrand GTCP 331-350C.

The main four-wheel bogie landing gear, the fuselage centre line twin wheel auxiliary gear and the twin wheel nose units are fitted with Goodyear tyres. The runway length for maximum take-off weight is 2,650m and the ground turning radius is 43.6m.

 

[Jigs]

I say KC-135s. We operate 7 for our fleet and they have been awesome.