Will Iran enter to the war against Israel?

[jhungary]

If the US-claimed story of F-22s outperforming ancient F-4s in international airspace helps you sleep at night and proves Iranian ADS is useless then good for you

Whoosh, his point went straight thru your head

The point is not F-22 outperform F-4 is the problem, the problem is Iranian GDS did not detect the F-22 that was close to the MQ-1 is the problem. That's the weakness of Iranian ADS, it saw 3 instead of 5 blips which is what it should have been.

The issue here is the CIC (Combat Information Centers) within a GDS did not detect the F-22 in flight, they didn't even know that they were there, hence the Suprise when the F-22 pull up underneath the F-4. Air Defence is a complex network of Ground Station (CIC, TOC and so on) and interception asset, CIC provide real time battle deposition and that deposition enters the command-and-control structure, to which the commander can decide the appropriate action for each threat. And the problem for this particular incident is, the GDS only detected the MQ-1, not the chaser. Which mean if this is a battle scenario, you launch your F-4 into the dark, thinking this is only a MQ-1 but instead you did not see the 2 tailing F-22, your F-4 is going to get ambushed.

And that also lead to another issue, if you cannot see the F-22 on your ground station, what if the F-22 see you first, if they take out that GDS first, and the ADS in the entire area is going to go dark. How are you going to fend off airstrike without GDS to look for threats and deal with interception? Are you just going to send your aircraft into destination unknown and depends on their limited radar to repel an attack?? that's like fighting with your eye blindfolded.

 

[gambit]

If the US-claimed story of F-22s outperforming ancient F-4s in international airspace helps you sleep at night and proves Iranian ADS is useless then good for you

So does this make YOU sleep at night: "Iran can do a good job of challenging Israeli/US AirPower within its own borders" ?

We do not take the Iranian military for granted. Same as we did not take the Iraqi military for granted. When I received orders to deploy to Desert Storm, yes, I was apprehensive. Who sane would not? Even though by that time, DS was already underway. Our squadron was to supplement the F-16s from other squadrons already flying combat sorties. We took what they said about Iraqi forces seriously, no matter how old their hardware were. They would and could kill you just the same. But objectively, no matter how seriously the US take the Iranian forces arrayed, that is not fear, and Iran cannot prevent US from taking over their airspace.

The question of capability is a very different question to the merits and consequences of exercising that capability

Lame. On this forum, it is routinely blathered that if the US could do something, why not done it already. Or variations of the same. So since the US have done that thing, whatever it is, that mean the US cannot do that thing. So went the 'logic'. Now you are receiving the same question.

 

[HGV]

When I received orders to deploy to Desert Storm

do you get paid each time you post this ?

 

[gambit]

do you get paid each time you post this ?

Hundred bucks. Every time.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Hundred bucks. Every time.

wonder if we recite that they also get you anything ?

Whoosh, his point went straight thru your head

The point is not F-22 outperform F-4 is the problem, the problem is Iranian GDS did not detect the F-22 that was close to the MQ-1 is the problem. That's the weakness of Iranian ADS, it saw 3 instead of 5 blips which is what it should have been.

and a single point omitted all you guys
the story maybe declassified in 2021 but it actually happened in 2013

An F-22 Stealth Fighter Flew Under an Iranian F-4 Phantom (Undetected)

The incident demonstrates the impressive stealth characteristics of the Raptor, which was able to approach the two Iranian fighters undetected and scout out their arsenals, before scaring them off.

nationalinterest.org

at the time Iran air defense and radar in south were consisted of some HAWK system
.the upgrade and modernization of our air defense happened later .
congratulation F-22 manage to evade HAWK if it was present there . the fact remain that at the time iran southern border radar coverage was famous for being like a sieve

 

[-=virus=-]

Don't fvck with Israel

Israel is a asshoe !

 

[KAL-EL]

Don't fvck with Israel

Israel is a asshoe !

Oingo boingo?

 

[jhungary]

wonder if we recite that they also get you anything ?


and a single point omitted all you guys
the story maybe declassified in 2021 but it actually happened in 2013

An F-22 Stealth Fighter Flew Under an Iranian F-4 Phantom (Undetected)

The incident demonstrates the impressive stealth characteristics of the Raptor, which was able to approach the two Iranian fighters undetected and scout out their arsenals, before scaring them off.

nationalinterest.org

at the time Iran air defense and radar in south were consisted of some HAWK system
.the upgrade and modernization of our air defense happened later .
congratulation F-22 manage to evade HAWK if it was present there . the fact remain that at the time iran southern border radar coverage was famous for being like a sieve

That changes nothing to my point.

Becuase

A.) They DID detect that MQ-1, it's not like the MQ-1 just happened upon those F-4 and the F-22 flew over. The ground station did detect the MQ-1, but they can't see the F-22, that's the point.

B.) It's about geographical distribution, it didn't matter whether or not you use a substandard equipment in some region or not, that's your responsibility, the issue here is, you need to defend the entire country, anything that left open is going to be exploited, or in case there is a war, can the Iranian government tell the US "Hey this does not count since we did not deploy our best force there" and ask for a do over?

We are talking about ADS weakness; and that speak to the command failure, self-inflicted weakness is a weakness all the same. and it can be exploited by potential enemy just like any other weakness.

 

[PakistaniandProud]

View attachment 1021819

Which Anime is that from?

 

[Mehdipersian]

So does this make YOU sleep at night: "Iran can do a good job of challenging Israeli/US AirPower within its own borders" ?

We do not take the Iranian military for granted. Same as we did not take the Iraqi military for granted. When I received orders to deploy to Desert Storm, yes, I was apprehensive. Who sane would not? Even though by that time, DS was already underway. Our squadron was to supplement the F-16s from other squadrons already flying combat sorties. We took what they said about Iraqi forces seriously, no matter how old their hardware were. They would and could kill you just the same. But objectively, no matter how seriously the US take the Iranian forces arrayed, that is not fear, and Iran cannot prevent US from taking over their airspace.


Lame. On this forum, it is routinely blathered that if the US could do something, why not done it already. Or variations of the same. So since the US have done that thing, whatever it is, that mean the US cannot do that thing. So went the 'logic'. Now you are receiving the same question.

Your army has only fought against weak armies.

It has not won even against weak military forces like the Taliban.

That's why your claim is ridiculous.

In case of a war with Iran, all US bases and ships in the region will be under heavy attacks from Iran.

Your planes will not be able to easily enter Iran's airspace.

Due to the size of Iran, you need at least two million soldiers to occupy Iran.

If you want to make a nuclear threat to Iran, Iran will quickly build an atomic bomb.

So, you can't do a shit against Iran

 

[LeGenD]

Your army has only fought against weak armies.

It has not won even against weak military forces like the Taliban.

That's why your claim is ridiculous.

In case of a war with Iran, all US bases and ships in the region will be under heavy attacks from Iran.

Your planes will not be able to easily enter Iran's airspace.

Due to the size of Iran, you need at least two million soldiers to occupy Iran.

If you want to make a nuclear threat to Iran, Iran will quickly build an atomic bomb.

So, you can't do a shit against Iran

An Iranian nuclear facility is so deep underground that US airstrikes likely couldn’t reach it

An Iranian nuclear facility is so deep underground that US airstrikes likely couldn’t reach it By JON GAMBRELL May 22, 2023 GMT https://apnews.com/article/iran-nuclear-natanz-uranium-enrichment-underground-project-04dae673fc937af04e62b65dd78db2e0 DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Near a peak...

pdf.defence.pk

You need to bookmark these posts so you can recall historical developments correctly.

Both US and Iran have fought a war with Iraq and WE all know which side managed to defeat Saddam regime and reshape Iraqi political landscape. It wasn't Iran. Iran was able to create Iraqi Hezbollah when Iraq had lost its strength in war but Iraq might rebuild itself and disband it at some point in future.

US might not occupy Iran but it might degrade Iranian military infrastructure and create a no fly zone above Iran to bring its government to its knees. Iranian reluctance to fight a war with the US says it all even though now is your chance to show what you can do. This is why it is important to respect facts and stick to them. Rhetoric cannot withstand the test of time.

Iran is a regional power - this FACT can be accepted without question. But US is a superpower. This distinction is not due to rhetoric but due to factors such as US having unparalleled military might, economic might, and a network of alliances around the world.

 

[Mehdipersian]

An Iranian nuclear facility is so deep underground that US airstrikes likely couldn’t reach it

An Iranian nuclear facility is so deep underground that US airstrikes likely couldn’t reach it By JON GAMBRELL May 22, 2023 GMT https://apnews.com/article/iran-nuclear-natanz-uranium-enrichment-underground-project-04dae673fc937af04e62b65dd78db2e0 DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Near a peak...

pdf.defence.pk

I already read your comment.

We are not looking for war because war will only bring destruction to Iran.

But War with Iran is not an easy task. We are ready to show Americans that the Vietnam War was just child's play.

 

[LeGenD]

I already read your comment.

We are not looking for war because war will only bring destruction to Iran.

But War with Iran is not an easy task. We are ready to show Americans that the Vietnam War was just child's play.

Iran is a big country and can offer considerable resistance to an invading force on the ground - this possibility is not in dispute. But I doubt that any country can replicate Vietnam War in current times because American military machine does not have weaknesses of an army that existed in the 1960s. American Air Power is on another level entirely in comparison to Russian Air Power and American tanks can survive in clashes unlike Russian tanks. I respect your sentiments but it is important to accept facts.

Let's hope that this war does not happen because another seemingly strong Islamic country biting the dust isn't good news at all. Cooler heads should prevail and Iran should find a way to have meaningful relationship with the West.

A significant reason for Arabs loosing their power is due to miscalculations of Iraq. Iran should know better.

 

[gambit]

and a single point omitted all you guys
the story maybe declassified in 2021 but it actually happened in 2013

at the time Iran air defense and radar in south were consisted of some HAWK system
.the upgrade and modernization of our air defense happened later .
congratulation F-22 manage to evade HAWK if it was present there . the fact remain that at the time iran southern border radar coverage was famous for being like a sieve

If a military does not exploit its enemy's weaknesses, flaws, ignorance, and incompetence, that military does not deserve to exist.

WTF do you think we have been doing all this time? That we been flying just to burn JP4? Just so our airmen can keep their flight pay and take airborne selfies? You puff yourself up by mocking US because we found some gaps and weaknesses in your radar coverage. How TF do you think we gained control of Iraqi airspace in just a few nights? Desert Storm showed that against US airpower, any gap and/or weakness is lethal.

Task Force Normandy Fired the Opening Shots of Desert Storm | Defense Media Network

A history of Task Force Normandy which fired the opening shots of Operation Desert Storm.

www.defensemedianetwork.com

The target was a pair of Iraqi air defense radar installations. On the first night of a conflict, destroying these stations would open a path to Baghdad for warplanes of the coalition arrayed against Saddam Hussein.​

​

Destroying the radars would open a pathway for the bombers to proceed.​

​

After months of training, on Jan. 14, 1991, Cody’s force positioned itself under radio silence at Al Jouf, near Saudi Arabia’s border with Iraq.​

Note the highlighted -- MONTHS OF TRAINING. We analyzed Iraq's air defense system, everything from physical layout to EM signatures, and found some weaknesses. Then we made one of them the focus of MONTHS OF TRAINING to open that weakness. You are looking at those US Army helo pilots flying at least once a day for a few hrs, then debrief for a few more hrs, put up various defeating scenarios for the attacking force, then repeat the pattern for MONTHS.

#DesertStorm30 – Electric Avenue: Electronic Warfare and the battle against Iraq’s air defences during Operation Desert Storm

By Dr Thomas Withington In January 1991, a US-led coalition launched Operation DESERT STORM to evict Iraq from Kuwait, which the former had invaded six months earlier. DESERT STORM was a combined o…

balloonstodrones.com

...the collection of ELINT allowed the coalition to determine which radars were used by Iraq’s IADS/GBAD and where they were located. This allowed potential gaps or more weakly defended areas in Iraqi air defence coverage to be identified. Second, regular ELINT collection allowed SIGINT experts to determine the pattern of electromagnetic life. This would have helped answer pertinent questions about whether Iraqi SA-2 batteries switched their radars off every evening or every weekend. By identifying geographical or temporal gaps in radar coverage, coalition planners could take advantage of weak coverage.​

I hope the Iranian military leadership is filled with people like you. In fact, I hope all the world's militaries are filled with people like you no matter how many Desert Storms they saw. Unbelievable is an understatement.

 

[gambit]

A.) They DID detect that MQ-1, it's not like the MQ-1 just happened upon those F-4 and the F-22 flew over. The ground station did detect the MQ-1, but they can't see the F-22, that's the point.

B.) It's about geographical distribution, it didn't matter whether or not you use a substandard equipment in some region or not, that's your responsibility, the issue here is, you need to defend the entire country, anything that left open is going to be exploited, or in case there is a war, can the Iranian government tell the US "Hey this does not count since we did not deploy our best force there" and ask for a do over?

We are talking about ADS weakness; and that speak to the command failure, self-inflicted weakness is a weakness all the same. and it can be exploited by potential enemy just like any other weakness.

We know this of Iranian air defense...

https://imgur.com/Fbq9n3D

What area of coverage can do what, for how long, how fast of the response time, and how far out. And he laughed at US.