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Will declare Jihad to save Pakistan: Imran Khan

I'm very certain the FC is now suitably equipped to hold their respective agencies against Taliban infiltration but if Kabul were to fall to the Taliban after the US withdrawal, then we will have some serious problems from the western border.

Dude that doesn't sound very good ! If Kabul isn't under Taliban control & there is a Taliban presence elsewhere then we've got another civil war in the coming just like there was one at the end of the so-called Afghan Jihad. Our cities will get flooded again by the refugees, the Northern Alliance (or whatever their present day successors are...lets call it Kabul) & the Taliban embroiled in a civil war that tears the very country apart & our Tribal Areas are naturally not immune to that for the element of Pashtun Nationalism will be injected in it once more due to the, alleged, lopsidedness of ANA's composition.

We're going to have a serious problem on our side anyhow ! I can't help but wonder if it is in exact anticipation of that possibility - nay, an inevitability, that we've been pushing for a peace settlement for so long & ever so ardently !

We can't afford a repeat of the late '80s & early '90s ! Especially when the Taliban aren't exactly friendly to us anymore.

Or another way to look at it could be that Pakistan is banking on the Afghan Taliban & the ANA to go at each other for a couple of years & provide us a much needed breather to re-collect ourselves & then chart a course of action that would bring some semblance of peace to the area.
 
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Proof? My friend, I am a civilian and COIN is my field. If the Army were harbouring terrorists. I would have known and the ISI would have acted upon it. This insinuation that the Army maintains terrorist groups anywhere is preposterous at best and has resulted in a dead end for a number of discussions between you and me.



The Afghan Army will not engage Pakistani forces without American Air Cover..........

denial cannot be countered mere bhai...

Anyway, the afghan army would not be waging a war on Pakistan, nor they would be given enough to do so, they will play with us on border... I fear that our Army would remain engaged in those areas, if we didnt patch up with the locals and most importantly regulate the border.
 
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denial cannot be countered mere bhai...

Anyway, the afghan army would not be waging a war on Pakistan, nor they would be given enough to do so, they will play with us on border... I fear that our Army would remain engaged in those areas, if we didnt patch up with the locals.

Neither can rhetoric be a substitute for proof !
 
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Whoever wants to have peace with India (Imran Khan) is Pakistans new enemy :lol:
 
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denial cannot be countered mere bhai...


It would be called denial if I were given proof an choose to believe otherwise. But in your case, there is no proof. So the denial does not exist from my side. Maybe you should consider the validity of your argument.

Anyway, the afghan army would not be waging a war on Pakistan, nor they would be given enough to do so, they will play with us on border... I fear that our Army would remain engaged in those areas, if we didnt patch up with the locals.

The Pakistan Army is already moving out of those areas and is on very good terms with the locals, remember that these people volunteered by the hundreds of thousands to raise Lashkars that have been a very important part of driving out the TTP and maintaining peace in the region.
 
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The last recorded instance of a Pak-Afghan border skirmish was the Bajaur Invasion of 1962 when over 20,000 Afghan Soldiers invaded Bajaur with a plan to use it as a springboard for an invasion of the KPK province. The Afghan soldiers were defeated by tribal militias and had to flee in disarray. So yes.



Here's a chronology of common interests for these militant groups.

80s: Soviets
90s: Government of Afghanistan
2000s: America
2014+: ?

Pakistan could be in for the long haul. They broke the peace treaty in attempt to expand. No doubt as you already know they want to overthrow the Pakistani govt. and will keep on trying.

It would be called denial if I were given proof an choose to believe otherwise. But in your case, there is no proof. So the denial does not exist from my side. Maybe you should consider the validity of your argument.



The Pakistan Army is already moving out of those areas and is on very good terms with the locals, remember that these people volunteered by the hundreds of thousands to raise Lashkars that have been a very important part of driving out the TTP and maintaining peace in the region.

So the suicide attacks against tribal leaders who are pro-govt. is not scaring them?
 
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The last recorded instance of a Pak-Afghan border skirmish was the Bajaur Invasion of 1962 when over 20,000 Afghan Soldiers invaded Bajaur with a plan to use it as a springboard for an invasion of the KPK province. The Afghan soldiers were defeated by tribal militias and had to flee in disarray. So yes.



Here's a chronology of common interests for these militant groups.

80s: Soviets
90s: Government of Afghanistan
2000s: America
2014+: ?


THIS... what if after the return of the American forces, they presumed that Pak Army is our enemy number one cause they were supporting the Amercian war? sara malba ham per hi gir jana hai phir...
 
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Proof? My friend, I am a civilian and COIN is my field. If the Army were harbouring terrorists. I would have known and the ISI would have acted upon it. This insinuation that the Army maintains terrorist groups anywhere is preposterous at best and has resulted in a dead end for a number of discussions between you and me.

Well, let's rephrase it. Would ya say Pak Army doesn't mind Afghan Taliban in North Waziristan or other agencies?
From what I understand, once The U.S. leaves the region, Afghan Taliban would have a legitimate stake in Afghan government. And Pak army wants their stooges in Afghan Parliament.
 
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Neither can rhetoric be a substitute for proof !

lame yar, if you think that militant outfits are not fathered by Army... then I am sorry I wont surrender for a positive end ! Fact is a Fact !!!
 
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Dude that doesn't sound very good ! If Kabul isn't under Taliban control & there is a Taliban presence elsewhere then we've got another civil war in the coming just like there was one at the end of the so-called Afghan Jihad. Our cities will get flooded again by the refugees, the Northern Alliance (or whatever their present day successors are...lets call it Kabul) & the Taliban embroiled in a civil war that tears the very country apart & our Tribal Areas are naturally not immune to that for the element of Pashtun Nationalism will be injected in it once more due to the, alleged, lopsidedness of ANA's composition.

That just comes with being a part of this neighbourhood. We've had to live with it before (Thrice) but this time, the locals will be very apprehensive towards an Afghan Immigration. During the Soviet Occupation and American Bombings, there was a feeling of great sympathy for the Afghan but since the Afghans hijacked the locals and used them. The element of Pushtun Nationalism will therefore be rare, this time around.

We're going to have a serious problem on our side anyhow ! I can't help but wonder if it is in exact anticipation of that possibility - nay, an inevitability, that we've been pushing for a peace settlement for so long & ever so ardently !

Peace with the Taliban is like trying to catch smoke, it just won't happen. The Taliban have no policy or code that they are bound by, their goals change as opportunity presents itself.

We can't afford a repeat of the late '80s & early '90s ! Especially when the Taliban aren't exactly friendly to us anymore.

They never really were, our people are just forgetful.

1) They refused to accept Durand Line as an International Border.
2) Attacked Markets in Orakzai and Khyber.
3) Threatened to target "Kaffiron kay Adday" in Pakistan.
4) Almost Invaded Chitral after Northern Alliance fighters

And much more, this was all pre-9/11. They were an allied government but not friendly by any definition.

Or another way to look at it could be that Pakistan is banking on the Afghan Taliban & the ANA to go at each other for a couple of years & provide us a much needed breather to re-collect ourselves & then chart a course of action that would bring some semblance of peace to the area.

It is in our best interest for the newly established set up to continue and prosper. A happy Afghanistan means that drugs, militants and weapons stay on their side of the border and we get to keep our cattle and wheat.

Pakistan could be in for the long haul. They broke the peace treaty in attempt to expand. No doubt as you already know they want to overthrow the Pakistani govt. and will keep on trying.

Agreed. Like I said, there guys are opportunists.

So the suicide attacks against tribal leaders who are pro-govt. is not scaring them?

Death is an ever present part of Tribal Society, death is not what scares the common tribal. Absolute power and control over him does.
 
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The Pakistan Army is already moving out of those areas and is on very good terms with the locals, remember that these people volunteered by the hundreds of thousands to raise Lashkars that have been a very important part of driving out the TTP and maintaining peace in the region.

No they are not, first Wazir were used against the Mehsuds, and what the situation now? both are together against the common enemy; Pakistani Army... why ???

no doubt that TTP would not have been cornered without CIA help, rest(Lashkars) were foot soldiers to cover the areas. who often turned against as well and joined the other group.

Changing militant strategies | DAWN.COM

still their recruiting base is here !!
 
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THIS... what if after the return of the American forces, they presumed that Pak Army is our enemy number one cause they were supporting the Amercian war? sara malba ham per hi gir jana hai phir...

Not unless the new system remains in power. It's in our national interests to help them stay in power, otherwise the scenario you mentioned can develop. However, seeing as Afghan Taliban mostly just stay on their side of the border and PA on theirs, a silent peace prevails between the two, this does not imply that they like each other. It's just that the fuel and spark aren't close enough to start a fire.

lame yar, if you think that militant outfits are not fathered by Army... then I am sorry I wont surrender for a positive end ! Fact is a Fact !!!

A fact is usually accompanied by proof, that you have none of, as proven by time and endless debate.
 
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No they are not, first Wazir were used against the Mehsuds, and what the situation now? both are together against the common enemy; Pakistani Army... why ???

no doubt that TTP would not have been cornered without CIA help, rest(Lashkars) were foot soldiers to cover the areas. who often turned against as well and joined the other group.

Changing militant strategies | DAWN.COM

still their recruiting base is here !!

That's because NWA remains with the TTP and those people are compelled not by choice but by force to comply with the TTP's demand. As for SWA, Google the Mehsud, Wazir and Bhittani Lashkars. BTW, Mehsuds and Wazirs have never been enemies, hated each other but never been enemies. Wazirs and Bannusis are enemies (historically).
 
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Not unless the new system remains in power. It's in our national interests to help them stay in power, otherwise the scenario you mentioned can develop. However, seeing as Afghan Taliban mostly just stay on their side of the border and PA on theirs, a silent peace prevails between the two, this does not imply that they like each other. It's just that the fuel and spark aren't close enough to start a fire.



A fact is usually accompanied by proof, that you have none of, as proven by time and endless debate.

Afghan Taliban don't stay on their side of the border. They always proclaim about Spring offensive each year when they return back from their sanctuary in Pakistan. I mean why else do you have a group called the Pakistani Taliban?
 
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