What's new

Wikileaks : Secret Afghanistan War logs



__________________________________________________ __

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/26/wikileaks-isi-taliban-nexus
Wikileaks and the ISI-Taliban nexus

Pakistan's intelligence leaders should ask whether their support of the Taliban is worth the price the country may have to pay


Peter Galbraith
guardian.co.uk, Monday 26 July 2010 21.30 BST
Article history
The Wikileaks documents, splashed in the Guardian and several other papers, provide useful confirmation of what is readily discerned from public sources: the Afghanistan War is going badly, the Taliban are exceptionally brutal, US forces have not always attacked the right targets and elements in Pakistan continue to support the Taliban.

The most striking feature of the documents – an unprecedented 90,000 pages of mostly raw intelligence that could only be leaked thanks to 21st-century technology that enables large volumes of data to be compressed into a tiny thumb drive – is the inconsistent quality of the intelligence. Americans should be asking why they are paying upwards of $50bn for this kind of information and why military officers and diplomats so rely on it.

Of all this information, the most troubling concerns the duplicitous double dealing by Pakistan's powerful spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI. While some of the intelligence seems wildly implausible (surely the ISI did not plot to poison Kabul-bound beer, an enormously complex operation with limited pay off since US troops are not allowed to drink alcohol in Afghanistan), the Wikileaks documents show a continued relationship between the ISI and the Taliban. This is not surprising. In the 1990s, the ISI helped create the Taliban and Pakistani support was decisive to the Taliban's capture of Kabul in 1996. The US has known since 2001 that Pakistan did not break its ties with the Taliban as President Pervez Musharraf had promised President Bush. After all, Mullah Omar and his close associates have been in Pakistan since 2001 and it is not plausible that Pakistan did not know where any of them were.

President Bush could have forced Pakistan to break the ISI-Taliban nexus but did not. He was dealing with Musharraf who, as the country's military dictator, presumably did control the ISI. Bush, who liked to talk tough but rarely was, preferred to accept Musharraf's false assurance that Pakistan was not supporting the Taliban connection to the unpleasant task of having to put pressure on an ally.

President Obama is dealing with an elected civilian government that is, as its leaders admit privately, in office but not always in power. President Asif Ali Zardari has tried to make the war on terror the centrepiece of his administration. Taliban-linked extremists murdered Zardari's wife, Benazir Bhutto, in circumstances where, as a recent UN report documents, the Musharraf dictatorship was at best grossly negligent when it did not provide Bhutto adequate security. After reading the UN report, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that there was some level of official complicity in her killing, possibly by ISI officials. But Zardari does not control the ISI.

Obama's Pakistan strategy involves strengthening the civilian government through engagement and with substantial monetary assistance. The strategy has produced results. Under pressure from Zardari and the parliament, the army has transferred some units from the Indian border to combat insurgents operating in the tribal areas on the western border. The ISI has cooperated in the arrest of militants, including Mullah Baradur, the Taliban number two and a key figure in its military operations. But, as the Wikileaks documents underscore, the ISI's double game continues.

Obama has few policy options. It is not easy to find ways to pressure the ISI directly. Threatening to withhold US assistance to Pakistan will undercut the elected Pakistani government that it is America's most eager ally in the effort to break the ISI-Taliban connection and to defeat extremism in Pakistan.

The Wikileaks documents highlight another shortcoming in the war effort: US hi-tech weapons are very good at hitting specific locations (although not without mishaps, as the documents illustrate) but the US often lacks reliable intelligence as to who is on the ground. Poor intelligence contributes to civilian casualties that, in a society organised by extended family and tribe, make new enemies for the coalition.

Good intelligence comes when the local population is willing to inform on the insurgents, which they will only do where they have confidence in the Afghan authorities. In the areas where the Taliban operates, the local population generally sees Hamid Karzai's government for what it is: corrupt, ineffective and, after last year's fraudulent presidential election, illegitimate. Without reliable intelligence, the US cannot make full use of its technological advantages.

ISI duplicity is a small factor in the coalition's failing military effort in Afghanistan, which is largely related to the absence of an Afghan partner. Pakistan, however, could end up as the scapegoat in a failed war, with potentially disastrous consequences for the country. Pakistan's military and intelligence leaders should ask whether continuing to play the Taliban card is worth the cost.


************************************************** **

Wikileaks Documents Seem to Show ISI Pakistan Intelligence Helped Afghanistan Insurgents Attack American Troops - ABC News

WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

Documents Accuse ISI, Pakistan's Intelligence Service, Of Aiding Insurgency; Senior ISI Official Dismisses Leaks

By NICK SCHIFRIN
KABUL, July 26, 2010

Perhaps the single most damming collection of data in a massive trove of secret documents from Afghanistan released by the website WikiLeaks is some 180 files that seem to show Pakistan's premiere intelligence service, the ISI, helping the Afghan insurgency attack American troops.

The United States provides more than a billion dollars to Pakistan each year for help in fighting terrorism, but the papers seem to link the ISI with major Afghan insurgent commanders; claim its representatives meet directly with the Taliban; accuse the agency of training suicide bombers; and indicts Pakistani intelligence officials on hatching up sensational ways to assassinate Afghan president Hamid Karzai and even poison the beer drunk by Americans in Afghanistan.

The United States has long been wary of the ISI's role in the Afghan war, and has occasionally accused the ISI of fomenting violence in Afghanistan, especially against Indian targets. And so in some ways, the allegations are not new. But taken as a whole, the documents present a far greater insight into exactly how the American military and Afghan intelligence see the ISI meddling inside Afghanistan than has ever been revealed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
. .
Wikileaks and the ISI-Taliban nexus

Peter Galbraith
guardian.co.uk, Monday 26 July 2010 21.30 BST

The Wikileaks documents, splashed in the Guardian and several other papers, provide useful confirmation of what is readily discerned from public sources: the Afghanistan War is going badly, the Taliban are exceptionally brutal, US forces have not always attacked the right targets and elements in Pakistan continue to support the Taliban.

The most striking feature of the documents – an unprecedented 90,000 pages of mostly raw intelligence that could only be leaked thanks to 21st-century technology that enables large volumes of data to be compressed into a tiny thumb drive – is the inconsistent quality of the intelligence. Americans should be asking why they are paying upwards of $50bn for this kind of information and why military officers and diplomats so rely on it.
Gogbot - please read previous posts contesting the reliability of these reports about Pakistan.

Also see the bold part above. Galbraith acknowledges, like others, the fact that the intelligence is 'raw', unverified and unreliable, as has been previous intelligence blaming the ISI, and yet has no problems in making and continuing to perpetuate the claim that the ISI is supporting the Taliban.

As I said, the one thing that is obvious is the desperation with which Western and Indian commentators want to find evidence linking the ISI and Taliban.

And again, 90,000 papers over several years, huge technological and financial resources, and not one single credible piece of evidence implicating the ISI.
 
.
If ISI is helping Taliban,
then who is carrying out suicide bombings in Pakistan.
&
who is currently fighting with Pakistan Army as talibs.
Come on people
this report is nothing but a U.S propaganda to pressurize Pakistan to operate in north-Waziristan.
 
.
Gogbot - please read previous posts contesting the reliability of these reports about Pakistan.

Contested perhaps , but not proven proven wrong.
This is a thread regarding the Wiki leak reports, i am only posting new sources and Articles , I have even refrained from adding my own comments.

Unless you mean to Censor this news , i see nothing wrong in posting more information

Also see the bold part above. Galbraith acknowledges, like others, the fact that the intelligence is 'raw', unverified and unreliable, as has been previous intelligence blaming the ISI, and yet has no problems in making and continuing to perpetuate the claim that the ISI is supporting the Taliban.

No , one is denying that.
But that does not mean all the documents are false.

These are the same people who have bought us the "Collateral Murder" video from Iraq.

As I said, the one thing that is obvious is the desperation with which Western and Indian commentators are linking the ISI and Taliban.

Desperation or Wealth of evidence ?

And again, 90,000 papers over several years, huge technological and financial resources, and not one single credible piece of evidence implicating the ISI.

Those documents are still being checked

They have barely scratched the surface of what's in them
 
.
Wonder why Afghanistan declined Pakistan's offer to train its army was a good indication at that time. Not sure if Pakistan is having a large role in training the Afghan army now ?
:cheers:

The latest information (WaPO report quoting FM Qureishi) indicates that the offer to train Afghan officers has been taken up. An initial batch of 20 is in the process of being sent to Pakistan. You just posted a comment in a thread based on that article did you not?
 
.
Gogbot - please read previous posts contesting the reliability of these reports about Pakistan.

Also see the bold part above. Galbraith acknowledges, like others, the fact that the intelligence is 'raw', unverified and unreliable, as has been previous intelligence blaming the ISI, and yet has no problems in making and continuing to perpetuate the claim that the ISI is supporting the Taliban.

As I said, the one thing that is obvious is the desperation with which Western and Indian commentators want to find evidence linking the ISI and Taliban.

And again, 90,000 papers over several years, huge technological and financial resources, and not one single credible piece of evidence implicating the ISI.

I wouldn't say not one yet. People are still going through this stuff(including me) i am sure more info is to come.
 
. .
Contested perhaps , but not proven proven wrong.
This is a thread regarding the Wiki leak reports, i am only posting new sources and Articles , I have even refrained from adding my own comments.

Unless you mean to Censor this news , i see nothing wrong in posting more information
You can post more information, provided it is new. Highlighting the same claims again and again, just because they are repeated by a different source, is not 'new information' though.

No , one is denying that.
But that does not mean all the documents are false.

These are the same people who have bought us the "Collateral Murder" video from Iraq.
And the collateral murder video was hard, credible evidence of an event. There is nothing of the sort, so far, in these reports implicating the ISI.

IF you do find credible evidence that is verifiable and not false, do share it with us. As of now most, if not all, is unverifiable and false.

Desperation or Wealth of evidence ?

Those documents are still being checked

They have barely scratched the surface of what's in them

Desperation since accusations are being made on the basis of what has been 'scratched'. I they haven't scratched the surface yet, are not desperate, and the only reports available so far are these unverifiable and raw reports, then why make accusations as if this was 'credible evidence'?
 
.
I wouldn't say not one yet. People are still going through this stuff(including me) i am sure more info is to come.

These commentators would have done well then to refrain from accusing the ISI on the basis of unverifiable and false accounts then. That they did not do so, and rushed to judgment, does indicate a strong anti-Pakistan bias and implies a sense of 'desperation' as I pointed out.
 
.
These commentators would have done well then to refrain from accusing the ISI on the basis of unverifiable and false accounts then. That they did not do so, and rushed to judgment, does indicate a strong anti-Pakistan bias and implies a sense of 'desperation' as I pointed out.

I agree with that. Certainly the New York Times spin on it had me roll my eyes at times. Currently at this point it is still speculation as to ISI and Taliban links. I just think that was the only significant thing they found in the documents so they all jumped on it.
 
. . .
S2 or other US military professionals can help forum members understand what PIR and CCIR are and how they drive DIIR and this may help forum members understand how incoming Tacreps are supposed to help further DIIR and how the need to do gthat and get on the books so to speak, reflects on units.

In addition US military forum members can explain what analyst rating of tacreps mean -- similarly the entire process of "nominating" individuals to a JPEL list -- from what others tell me, most of these just get a delete when an analyst cannot rate it as credible but I have no other way of knowing - some US professional may shed some light on this.
 
.
Are RussiaToday and AlJazeera considered non western sources ?
What does that have to do with posting original information if they repeat the same things the Guardian, NYT and others have already covered?

You can post dozens of videos from US, European and Arab channels discussing the same thing, but it isn't new information unless it includes something like an interview with Hamid Gul (one of the main accused) or other relevant parties.

Also, if you had read the thread (which is always a good thing to do instead of just jumping in to spam with your own posts) you would realize the Hamid Gul AJ video has been posted already.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom