WIKILEAKS: Leaked diplomatic cables reveal that China is ready to abandon North Korea

[gambit]

Just ignore him buddy, it's clear that he is not looking for a rational discussion.

Nooo...I have presented plenty of rational arguments. But for the life of me, I failed to see how is my being Vietnamese is relevant here. Care to explain?

 

[Speeder 2]

So China

1. "agrees to an Unified Korea under SK"?

2. "If then Korea is not hostile towards CHina"? ( presume the US troops leave Korea/Asia) ?

3. Said "blah blah...etc " according to an South Korean talking with an American...

And this "wikileak" apparently "happened" precisely with NK's power shifitng phase and the US AC's "port visit" to NK's shore ...

etc, etc...

This whole story sounds to me just naïve, stupid , fishy and with a lottery-style sheer "coinstance"....


I think even though China dislikes NK and Kim Sr., but to agree above and openly "told" SK and the US so, "accoding to wikileak", is almost impossible. It's charateristically so NOT Chinese.


The story is , to me, almost centain a US trap, an "art-of War-like" move from Hillary and her Think Tanks to cause China-NK internal conflict in order to "solve" NK problem.

The reason is simple: Chinese, "diplomats" or "young leadership"or not, are not stupid.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Nooo...I have presented plenty of rational arguments. But for the life of me, I failed to see how is my being Vietnamese is relevant here. Care to explain?

Ask the person who brought it up.

I never even used the word Vietnamese, nor do I think it is relevant to the topic.

The poster who brought it up, I believe, was drawing a parallel between the no longer existent entity of "South Vietnam", and the events that are currently occurring in the Korean peninsula.

 

[Thomas]

Stalin didn't believe in hereditary rule. He used the same tools other politicians use: appointments and elections.

The Worker's Party of Korea has not met in 30 years. They met a few months ago to approve Kim Jong En. This means that the party has no power, it is not a communist country.

North Korea does not have a communist party. It is not the Communist Party of Korea.

Just becuase a wolf puts on sheeps clothing, he is still a wolf.

It doesn't matter what label the party uses. the fact is it was based on Marxism/Leninism. KimII-sung was trained and served under Stalin as a Captian in the Red Army. many of the policies he instituted under his regime where based on what he learned under stalin. And from Stalins politcal advisors after he was in power. Most of those policies survive today. The hereditary thing is unique and is a result of the effectivness of what extreme propoganda can accomplish promoting hero worship. Stalins propoganda people did similar things but were never as effective as Kim II-sung was.

 

[gambit]

Ask the person who brought it up.

I never even used the word Vietnamese, nor do I think it is relevant to the topic.

But you have no problems contributing to the noise or to tell your brothers to lay off what should have been recognized as wrong to start. Unless you think it is not wrong...

The poster who brought it up, I believe, was drawing a parallel between the no longer existent entity of "South Vietnam", and the events that are currently occurring in the Korean peninsula.

Yeah...Right......Stop trying to make excuses for your boys. Some 'parallel'...

 

[Alphatech]

Firstly, China has not abandoned anyone.

Secondly, North Korea has constantly and repeatedly gone against our interests. Detonating a nuclear device, refusing to go back to six-party talks, causing violence and instability in the peninsula...

I did not bring in the word "abandon", it is in the forum title. However if you have another term for "failing to protect your allies and handing them over to her enemies", then feel free to use it. If the events transpire as indicted by the news, China will be seen as having abandoned NK, no matter what reason you give to justify it. And the wikileaks clearly say that China was offered significant business deals with Seoul as a reward for this betrayal.


Secondly, it is true that NK detonated a nuclear device. However this is the only thing they could do in this scenario. They did not trust China to always protect them, and it seems to have been the right decision. The only thing that is preventing them from going the way of Iraq or Afghanistan, is the fear of a nuclear strike on Seoul or even a US base in Japan.

What I simply wanted to point out is the implications that these events have for other countries that believe in unconditional Chinese support for their own causes. It is silly to believe that China will abandon significant economic incentives just to show solidarity with an ally. In today's world, business is business, friendship is only secondary.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What I simply wanted to point out is the implications that these events have for other countries that believe in unconditional Chinese support for their own causes. It is silly to believe that China will abandon significant economic incentives just to show solidarity with an ally. In today's world, business is business, friendship is only secondary.

You're clearly talking about Pakistan, so tell me, what do you perceive the parallels to be?

Like you said... in geopolitics, only interests matter.

 

[Alphatech]

You're clearly talking about Pakistan, so tell me, what do you perceive the parallels to be?

Like you said... in geopolitics, only interests matter.

There certainly are quiet a few parallels.... One is the unstable political situation and economic crisis in both the countries., De-facto nuclear status, history of proliferation, animosity towards a rapidly growing economy which china wants to do a lot more business with, hostility towards America seen in both the countries,....just to mention a few.

However, the parallel ends in that China has no major disputes with SK as opposed to the lukewarm Indian situation. Secondly, America, at least for now, does not want to appear hostile towards Pakistan. However both of these situations can easily change. Till sometime ago, China would never have been expected to do anything but strongly support North Korea. All i wanted to say was that strong alliances may be disregarded for bigger gains.

And, contrary to what you think, I am not solely directing this at Pakistan. It also holds true for other Chinese allies that are antagonizing the US like Iran, Burma, Venezuela etc.

 

[FullMetalJacket]

The modern South Korean youths want Yankee military bases out of their country. And this is the reality, not Chinese propaganda.

YouTube - Surprise Protest on US 8th Army base, South Korea

I don't blame them. If my country was attacked without caution by a rival country, killing I believe 2 marines and 2 cilivians, and the world did nothing except talk, I'd be protesting too. Lets not forget the sinking of a South Korean ship earlier this March.

 

[below_freezing]

Just becuase a wolf puts on sheeps clothing, he is still a wolf.

It doesn't matter what label the party uses. the fact is it was based on Marxism/Leninism. KimII-sung was trained and served under Stalin as a Captian in the Red Army. many of the policies he instituted under his regime where based on what he learned under stalin. And from Stalins politcal advisors after he was in power. Most of those policies survive today. The hereditary thing is unique and is a result of the effectivness of what extreme propoganda can accomplish promoting hero worship. Stalins propoganda people did similar things but were never as effective as Kim II-sung was.

The party in north korea has not convened in years.

Workers' Party of Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A party congress has not been held since the sixth party congress in 1980. According to the Party Act, a party congress is supposed to be held every five years. The plenum of the Central Committee has not been held since the twenty-first plenum in December 1993. The plenum, which has the right to elect the General-Secretary, was not held even when Kim Jong-il became the party's secretary-general in October 1997."

30 years since the last party meeting. The party has no power. North Korea has nothing to do with socialism. Their constitution, I believe, does not even mention the word "socialism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_North_Korea

"The Western world generally views North Korea as the last old-style Communist dictatorship, but the government has formally replaced references to Marxism-Leninism in its constitution with the locally developed concept of Juche, or self-reliance. In recent years, there has been great emphasis on the Songun or "military-first" philosophy. The constitution of North Korea declares that "the Democratic People's Republic of Korea shall, by carrying out a thorough cultural revolution, train all the people to be builders of socialism and communism".[3] It has since then removed all references to Communism in its revised 2009 constitution.[4]"

It is no longer a real socialist country. It is a military dictatorship.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Do not waste time, peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula is China's core interests, where said in the official media . This is the first time clearly expressed in the official media.

 

[Thomas]

The party in north korea has not convened in years.

Workers' Party of Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A party congress has not been held since the sixth party congress in 1980. According to the Party Act, a party congress is supposed to be held every five years. The plenum of the Central Committee has not been held since the twenty-first plenum in December 1993. The plenum, which has the right to elect the General-Secretary, was not held even when Kim Jong-il became the party's secretary-general in October 1997."

30 years since the last party meeting. The party has no power. North Korea has nothing to do with socialism. Their constitution, I believe, does not even mention the word "socialism".

Politics of North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Western world generally views North Korea as the last old-style Communist dictatorship, but the government has formally replaced references to Marxism-Leninism in its constitution with the locally developed concept of Juche, or self-reliance. In recent years, there has been great emphasis on the Songun or "military-first" philosophy. The constitution of North Korea declares that "the Democratic People's Republic of Korea shall, by carrying out a thorough cultural revolution, train all the people to be builders of socialism and communism".[3] It has since then removed all references to Communism in its revised 2009 constitution.[4]"

It is no longer a real socialist country. It is a military dictatorship.

You make it sound like the congress is no more. which couldn't be further from the truth. Its delegates are still appointed and in fact they just held a congress a few months ago. And no matter if Kim thinks his style of socialism (juche) is better then stalins. Most of the Stalinist policies of the 50's are still in place today. Which is why westerners consider it to be Stalinist.

The true power however actually rests with the military generals. Which is why Kim keeps them well rewarded.

 

[gpit]

The likelihood for China to accept a unified Korea at present stage is as slim as none.

China would rather accept NK as an agitating neighbor per stat quo than have US army at its door-step. Why? Because Taiwan issue is still not resolved.

Once Taiwan is unified with mainland, the trust between China and US will be tremendously boosted. China may then consider get rid of NK.

In addition to many ropes on US neck, Taiwan is another one.

As long as the US is uncooperative on Taiwan, China will be uncooperative with US.

Don’t think China to NK is one way aid. No! In fact, NK is very rich in minerals. They ship these treasures to China in exchange of foods. I remember I hear S Koreans cry foul that NK sells those treasures in such cheap prices to China instead of SK.

BTW, beware western propaganda for war preparation.

 

[anon45]

I'm kind of curious, What threat is the US to China with a Korea unified under a pro-US South Korean government that it isn't to China already?

Invading China conventionally would be about as insane as trying to attack the US mainland conventionally.

Is it possible Aircraft basing?

In anycase the big picture is whether the US still has a presence in a unified Korea has alot to do with How Koreans view China.

Taking a hostile view to a unified Korea (under South Korea's government) goes a long way to ensuring US troops remain.

 

[BigTree.CN]

Chinese members,

Is this serious China ready giving up N.Korea? If so, why? What other truly allies China have vs US' allies?

No, China will never give up NK.

A stable, peaceful and independent Korea Peninsula is extremely crucial to China's national security. When mentioning "War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea" in Chinese history book, the Chinese idiom "唇亡齿寒" is used to describe the importance of NK to China, which translates loosely into "The lips being lost, the teeth feel cold". It is a Chinese way to tell people that if you attack NK, you are also attacking me.

China could fight a war for NK in 1950s, China can certainly do it again.