Why you should support China in one chart

[rott]

I never log in to my Facebook account either.

Neither do I. Even my wife doesn't get on it being a woman.

 

[Dungeness]

Yet, few outside of China could comprehend or are willing to acknowledge the underplaying dynamics that made China the exceptional developing country. Being a westerner, the writer of this article is among the few.

 

[UserUnknown2025]

Nobody has a problem with that. Some people don’t mind the government saying what they can and can’t do. However you can’t make a sweeping statement that this model could be repeated in other developing countries. Many aren’t as malleable when it comes to limiting what they can say and do...an example of this would be Religion.

You afraid of China proposing an alternative model to democrazy??

 

[Dungeness]

Nobody has a problem with that. Some people don’t mind the government saying what they can and can’t do. However you can’t make a sweeping statement that this model could be repeated in other developing countries. Many aren’t as malleable when it comes to limiting what they can say and do...an example of this would be Religion.

That's what a government is for.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

That's what a government is for.

I mean blindly. If say the Pakistani government says everybody should convert to Hinduism or atheism I think that wouldn’t be taken lightly. Some countries have people less malleable than others. Mao easily smashed religion in China but it wouldn’t be that easy in Pakistan. They aren’t slaves to their government. It’s a concept Chinese apparently have trouble comprehending.

 

[UserUnknown2025]

That's what a government is for.

Don't follow what America says. Follow what America does.

 

[rambro]

You afraid of China proposing an alternative model to democrazy??

Or Demagogue

 

[beijingwalker]

If say the Pakistani government says everybody should convert to Hinduism or atheism I think that wouldn’t be taken lightly.

Chinese can never be easily converted to any religions, many rulers from different cultrual and ethnic backgrounds tried many times during the history, they all failed.

 

[jhungary]

Chinese can never be easily converted to any religions, many rulers from different cultrual and ethnic backgrounds tried many times during the history, they all failed.

I think you misunderstood his point. His point is being you cannot use a blanket sweep on a Human Right item one can do without and then transpired to say "basic Human Right" is not important for development because in China, Chinese rather choose getting rich than the right to use Facebook or YouTube.

To begin with Human Right included a lot of things, but just the freedom to use stuff, and on the other hand, Chinese interest in Facebook is minimal. Even I don't like to use Facebook. Problem is, when you applies this model to other country, that may have conflicted to National Interest of that country. In @Hamartia Antidote case, Religion.

If the same question is asked to a Pakistani, what will they choose, to get rich or ditch your fundamental right to believe in Islam. They will choose latter because Pakistan is a deeply religious country. And their National Religion is Islam.

Yet, few outside of China could comprehend or are willing to acknowledge the underplaying dynamics that made China the exceptional developing country. Being a westerner, the writer of this article is among the few.

That's because the so called "Chinese Way" only work on China, how to deal with a country poverty issue is unique, what work for one country does not mean they will work for others. And as much as today reporting standard goes, which literally they will report any shit. Any model outside their own are useless. Chinese model work because China have a very strong Workforce base, which is probably bigger than all of Europe Combine. So, how would you applies Chinese model in European Country like Hungary? Or Croatia? It simply won't work. Hence nobody is talking about it but the Chinese, it's like there are no report on how the Greek comes out of their Economy Crisis and getting richer. You won't hear about it on CNN or CCTV. Because it does not concern them. That's why it's under-reporting.

On the other hand, the Chinese model is based on a Socialist-Capitalism model (or Economist called Selective Capitalism) in which a country primary financial welfare is charged by a group from the government, within that group, the company enjoy maximum freedom on trading and financial activities, then the government pump the money the system made into other sector. In which lifted the Poverty out of that sector. And this model is not new, European Country like Sweden and Luxembourg have already been using this model for centuries. Just that they developed that system into Welfare State like system they have now, where Chinese develop it into what the Chinese have now (or the Chinese System).

 

[beijingwalker]

I think you misunderstood his point. His point is being you cannot use a blanket sweep on a Human Right item one can do without and then transpired to say "basic Human Right" is not important for development because in China, Chinese rather choose getting rich than the right to use Facebook or YouTube.

To begin with Human Right included a lot of things, but just the freedom to use stuff, and on the other hand, Chinese interest in Facebook is minimal. Even I don't like to use Facebook. Problem is, when you applies this model to other country, that may have conflicted to National Interest of that country. In @Hamartia Antidote case, Religion.

If the same question is asked to a Pakistani, what will they choose, to get rich or ditch your fundamental right to believe in Islam. They will choose latter because Pakistan is a deeply religious country. And their National Religion is Islam.

That argument is based on the assmuption that China has no human rights which is a huge fallacy, I lived both in China and US, the Chinese enjoy no less human rights than Americans do, there are millions of foreigners live in China and ask them if you they feel their human rights infringed at any degree in China.

Almost all of the foreign expats say that China is a very safe and peaceful country while they take a stroll in the mid night or a girl traveling by themsevles won't have to think about safety issues. People go anywhere don't have to worry about being shot by a random crazy guy.

US may think that having weapon as part of basic human rights but we Chinese don't believe so, it's all about perspetives, China throughtout the history believes that individual human rights are subject to collective public rights,once there is a conflict, the former must comply with the latter, that's deep in our national psyche.

In China you don't have the rights to hurt th public safety or disrupt public social order thus subsequently damage other people's basic rights, those unwritten rules have been taken for granted by most Chinese throughout our history and why China can have this miraculous achievenment is largely due to this national collective consensues.

So don't make false assumption that China doesn't have human rights, our concept of human rights is very different from your western one. We believe human rights and good life is achieved through collective well being and then reaching down to grass root level top down.

If the same question is asked to a Pakistani, what will they choose, to get rich or ditch your fundamental right to believe in Islam. They will choose latter because Pakistan is a deeply religious country. And their National Religion is Islam.

Did China ever oulaw religions? China has more religious people than your country's whole population.

Western colonists are the last people should have the shame to talk about human rights after they killed off almost all native local population while taking over their lands. If there are no humans left, to whom should you talk about human rights? The more they talk about human rights, the more I see them being utterly shameless. Slavery , racial genocide and segregation are what they did and to some extent are still doing.

 

[jhungary]

That argument is based on the assmuption that China has no human rights which is a huge fallacy, I lived both in China and US, the Chinese enjoy no less human rights than Americans do, there are millions of foreigners live in China and ask them if you they feel their human rights infringed at any degree in China.

Almost all of the foreign expats say that China is a very safe and peaceful country while they take a stroll in the mid night or a girl traveling by themsevles won't have to think about safety issues. People go anywhere don't have to worry about being shot by a random crazy guy.

US may think that having weapon as part of basic human rights but we Chinese don't believe so, it's all about perspetives, China throughtout the history believes that individual human rights are subject to collective public rights,once there is a conflict, the former must comply with the latter, that's deep in our national psyche.

In China you don't have the rights to hurt th public safety or disrupt public social order thus subsequently damage other people's basic rights, those unwritten rules have been taken for granted by most Chinese throughout our history and why China can have this miraculous achievenment is largely due to this national collective consensues.

So don't make false assumption that China doesn't have human rights, our concept of human rights is very different from your western one. We believe human rights and good life is achieved through collective well being and then reaching down to grass root level top down.

WOW...……...You are completely OFF THE CHART...….

The argument is NOT whether or not China have Human Right or not, the argument is what you can do without. Whether or not did China have more or the same Human Right than the US in itself is debatable, because Human Right is still respect to the local tradition and what you think is more important.

For example, in China, your birthplace bounded to your geographic location you can live, a man born in China cannot move freely to EVERY PART of China without a permit. The Special Administrative Zone (Like Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Macau) and the Capital City without applying for a permit. In the US, you are free to move to any part of US if you have US residence, you can move to DC, or unincorporated territories like Guam, Puerto Rico and American Virgin Island, and most importantly, reverse is also true, which mean people born in Guam, Puerto Rico can move to US mainland anytime they like, without applying for anything. Now, if you are Chinese and think it is no big deal if you can't move to Beijing or Hong Kong freely, then you don't think your Human Right is being violated. However, the same cannot be said in the US, if US have a law forbidding one or both way traffic influx from incorporated territories, the people in Guam and Puerto Rico will have their Human Right violated.

The same argument as Two/Multiple Party System, Free Election, Freedom of Speech, Freedom to practice Occult (like Falung Kong, Wicca, and Mormanism) unless it is clearly illegal (like exploiting children and so on). If Chinese don't think those stuff are important, they won't see as their right has been violated. But you cannot use the same thing to anyone else other than the Chinese. Just because Chinese don't think their right have been violated because they don't care, doesn't mean other people in other country will feel the same.

And this is what @Hamartia Antidote said, what you think as a Chinese may be different when the same thing is present to a Pakistani, Turkish or anyone but Chinese.

And this is stupid to claim a country have absolutely no human right at all, because by definition, the right to exist does not applies, which mean no one can live in that country if you do not have any Human Right at all.

Did China ever oulaw religions? China has more religious people than your country's whole population.

Western colonists are the last people should have the shame to talk about human rights after they killed off almost all native local population while taking over their lands. If there are no humans left, to whom should you talk about human rights? The more they talk about human rights, the more I see them being utterly shameless. Slavery , racial genocide and segregation are what they did and to some extent are still doing.

Immaterial. The topic is talking about China, not Western Colonist, just because Western Colonist is all bad does not mean Chinese is automatically good.

Plus the religion aspect of this argument is not directed at China, its directed at religious dominating country like South America and Middle East.

And yes, Religious did and continues to be oppressed in China, in all, most Chinese believe in ancestral believe but not Buddhism, which is part of Confucianism, and whether Confucianism can be called a religion is in itself debatable.

 

[beijingwalker]

Hong Kong is a different case cause in many international events Hong Kong is termed as a separate regionn, Main land China and Hong Kong have different systems. But who told you that you can't freely move to Beijiing? The truth is, as a Beijing native, it's very hard to meet another Beijing native in the city. Most peole living here are from other places. What do you think China builds high speed railway network for?

 

[Dungeness]

I mean blindly. If say the Pakistani government says everybody should convert to Hinduism or atheism I think that wouldn’t be taken lightly. Some countries have people less malleable than others. Mao easily smashed religion in China but it wouldn’t be that easy in Pakistan. They aren’t slaves to their government. It’s a concept Chinese apparently have trouble comprehending.

Thank God, Mao was an atheist, so is CCP. Just look at the "progress" of all those religious "developing countries".
Mao and CPC were able to promote atheism in China with relative ease because China was never a hardwired religious country through out her history, hence Chinese are more rational and open-minded than those religious nutcases so prevalent in developing countries. So by definition, Chinese are freer than people in religious countries where a certain religion is imposed upon them since day 1 of their life. If you try to imply that Chinese are slaves to the government because they largely follow atheism these days, I think you are being judgmental.

 

[beijingwalker]

Religions in China are protected by China's constitution, but all religions can be freely practiced to a point which should not endanger the public and national security, China has over 10 million Hui Muslims who have no trouble with the government, Falungong was no a big problem untill thousands of their followers beseiged Zhongnanhai. The last thing China wants to see is what is happening in the middle east or Muslims, Buddists and Christians killing each other in China. Public security and interest always come first in China.

 

[Dungeness]

That's because the so called "Chinese Way" only work on China, how to deal with a country poverty issue is unique, what work for one country does not mean they will work for others. And as much as today reporting standard goes, which literally they will report any shit. Any model outside their own are useless. Chinese model work because China have a very strong Workforce base, which is probably bigger than all of Europe Combine. So, how would you applies Chinese model in European Country like Hungary? Or Croatia? It simply won't work. Hence nobody is talking about it but the Chinese, it's like there are no report on how the Greek comes out of their Economy Crisis and getting richer. You won't hear about it on CNN or CCTV. Because it does not concern them. That's why it's under-reporting.

On the other hand, the Chinese model is based on a Socialist-Capitalism model (or Economist called Selective Capitalism) in which a country primary financial welfare is charged by a group from the government, within that group, the company enjoy maximum freedom on trading and financial activities, then the government pump the money the system made into other sector. In which lifted the Poverty out of that sector. And this model is not new, European Country like Sweden and Luxembourg have already been using this model for centuries. Just that they developed that system into Welfare State like system they have now, where Chinese develop it into what the Chinese have now (or the Chinese System).

Agree. "Chinese Way" is for China only. Each country is unique in its own way. It is foolish trying to convince other countries that there were an "one size fits all" universal governance system.