Why would people from China, the world's second-biggest economy, risk their lives to enter the UK?

[KungFuLee]

And it is also the time to purge those traitorous officials within CPC who hide their personal assets abroad in HK or western countries.

Should you be the one that being purge first? You ran to the west and reside in Canada, I assume you and your family did not declare your asset in Canada to Chinese government?......LOL

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, you bring the second class Chinese topic into the fray, I didn't and saying so must be some kind of inferior complex of you being overseas takes you. Again, if you are to lecture us "Second Class Citizen" should you be reporting back to China and be First Class Citizen first?

Looks who whine like a little girl. LOL

Yep, burning down your own city is a perfect way to manifest your frustration.

You can burn HK into a barren land, we don't care.

If HK becomes a barren land, its sovereignty will still belong to us, just like Aksai Chin.

We hold Aksai Chin firmly even it is full of barren land. Same for HK, you can turn it into barren land if you want, but its sovereignty will remain to us.

 

[Mista]

But what you said all proves Soros is retarded. 你不觉得奇怪吗？索罗斯竟然如此的幼稚，我宁可相信是你幼稚。

And thus he lost billions. Look, he didn't expect that HK is willing to risk her laissez faire reputation and intervene.

Billionaire financier George Soros has praised the Hong Kong government for thwarting his attempts to undermine the local currency and stock market in 1998 but maintained he had every right to do so.
...
Mr Soros' latest comments mirror those he made during a visit to Hong Kong in 2001, when he said local monetary authorities did 'a very good job when they intervened to arrest the collapse of the Hong Kong market' and that the subsequent damage to the government's laissez-faire reputation was worth it.

The government was generally perceived to have won the battle with speculators after then-financial secretary Donald Tsang Yam-kuen went on an unprecedented HK$118 billion stock-buying spree to defend the currency peg in August 1998.

The administration justified its actions by saying hedge funds such as Mr Soros' Quantum Fund were manipulating markets by dumping the Hong Kong dollar while taking short positions on the stock and futures markets.

Even the Fed doesn't buy and hold common stocks to prop up markets during the GFC2008. Government buying up stocks to push up prices is market manipulation and it hurts the reputation and integrity of a financial center.

You may think it's no big deal but I will tell you this. One reason why foreigners don't have faith in Shanghai's stock market and prefer HK is because of government's intervention in the mainland, like the stock crash in 2015.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/07/08/investing/china-stock-market-government-intervention/index.html

What's stopping the Chinese government from making easy money by manipulating the stock market, or what you guys call 割韭菜? The government has unparalleled amount of funds, whatever stocks it buys in large amount the price will go up, and when it sells the price will drop. Repeat the process. Which means that it will make money whenever it buys or sells in huge amount in the market. The government can never 'lose'.

Ask yourself this, would you dare to invest in US stock market if the Fed with unlimited funds can just go in and trade common stocks?

You need to understand this basic principle before saying that Soros is 'naive' for believing that HK would not risk the reputation and integrity of its financial hub.

You can say that he's naive because that's hindsight, and hindsight is always 20/20.

If you're a trader back then, can you be sure that the HK government will go in and manipulate the market, risking the market's reputation and integrity?

再说一遍，新加坡货币贬值后（无论是主动还是被动），就已经没有攻击价值了。只要货币高估才有攻击价值。泰铢贬值后索罗斯也停止了攻击。

Eh, Indonesia's currency collapsed by 70%. Would you say that at down 20%, there's not much value left to attack?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Should you be the one that being purge first? You ran to the west and reside in Canada, I assume you and your family did not declare your asset in Canada to Chinese government?......LOL

Again what is the relevance of my living place? I am not even a CPC official, nor any of my family relative is.

BTW, now you are running out of argument and starting to behave like a naked troll.

 

[KungFuLee]

Again what is the relevance of my living place? I am not even a CPC official, nor any of my family relative is.

BTW, now you are running out of argument and starting to behave like a naked troll.

Hey man, you are a proud Chinese, so proud living in China rooting for Chinese government is not enough for you, you have to be in Canada and cheer the Chinese lol

What argument? I failed to see any since you bring up second class Chinese. LOL, maybe its time to look at a mirror?

 

[kankan326]

And thus he lost billions. Look, he didn't expect that HK is willing to risk her laissez faire reputation and intervene.

But before that UK government interfered and Tailand government interfered. When HK government threw money into stock, Soros must know what happened and he just didn't stop his attack.

Eh, Indonesia's currency collapsed by 70%. Would you say that at down 20%, there's not much value left to attack?

Probably Singapore performed well in export. 20% is enough

 

[KungFuLee]

Yep, burning down your own city is a perfect way to manifest your frustration.

You can burn HK into a barren land, we don't care.

If HK becomes a barren land, its sovereignty will still belong to us, just like Aksai Chin.

We hold Aksai Chin firmly even it is full of barren land. Same for HK, you can turn it into barren land if you want, but its sovereignty will remain to us.

Again, what is us? I don't see how Canadian hold sovereignty of Hong Kong, they help us fought the WW2, but that;s it.

If you want to talk about us, come back to China and we can talk, if not, please refrain from using "us" as we have no relation to Canada whatsoever

Fun to hear we turn our back on China from you when you did exactly just that.

 

[Mista]

But before that UK government interfered and Tailand government interfered. When HK government threw money into stock, Soros must know what happened and he just didn't stop his attack.

Sigh... You don't even realize the difference between stock intervention and currency intervention despite me typing so much to share more.

Forget it.

 

[kankan326]

Sigh... You don't even realize the difference between stock intervention and currency intervention despite me typing so much to share more.

Forget it.

我之前说过了，我不是学经济的。但是我看过这方面的影片，投机过程有人入场大量买进是很容易被投机客发现的。既然你懂，评价下我在#181的回复。合理吗？

 

[KungFuLee]

作为一个经济学外行我可以瞎分析一下。尽管索罗斯的钱没有港府多，但是他的资金投向放到股市汇市里会有放大作用。而且能放大多少倍完全不可控。而且此前索罗斯对英国和东南亚国家的成功狙击已经让人闻风丧胆，他的名望足可以打击香港股汇市的信心。信心这东西对股票和汇率太重要了。这就使得放大作用得到了进一步的加强。所以香港政府对手里的外储是没有信心的，才会向中央政府求援。中央政府坚定的态度本身就是加强了香港股汇市的信心，起到了稳定人心的作用。港府没有动用到中央政府的外储，不代表中央的支持就没有作用。如果没有中央助阵撑场子，或许港府的外储就不够用了。

You don't understand the importance of Stock Market Integrity.

Soros attack Hong Kong Stock market is betting on Hong Kong will not intervene the Stock Market, because he thought the status of free market is more important than a couple of billions dollars losing in the market. This is what he believe.

It is not about underestimating Hong Kong financial strength but rather he is betting on Hong Kong, being non-intervening market, will do nothing, which he is wrong and he lost billions of dollars because of it.

Hong Kong would have enough resource itself to fend off the attack, because Hong Kong have multiple currency reserve than circulation, so technically any kind of attack is futile if, a big if, Hong Kong government intervene.

China help is useless in this situation. It's like I need to take a taxi home and the fare cost $75, I have $200 in my pocket, you come by and said "Hey can help you out by lending you $100"

 

[kankan326]

You don't understand the importance of Stock Market Integrity.

Soros attack Hong Kong Stock market is betting on Hong Kong will not intervene the Stock Market, because he thought the status of free market is more important than a couple of billions dollars losing in the market. This is what he believe.

It is not about underestimating Hong Kong financial strength but rather he is betting on Hong Kong, being non-intervening market, will do nothing, which he is wrong and he lost billions of dollars because of it.

Hong Kong would have enough resource itself to fend off the attack, because Hong Kong have multiple currency reserve than circulation, so technically any kind of attack is futile if, a big if, Hong Kong government intervene.

China help is useless in this situation. It's like I need to take a taxi home and the fare cost $75, I have $200 in my pocket, you come by and said "Hey can help you out by lending you $100"

Your reply is totally irelevant to what you quoted. If I were Soros, I wouldn't bet my money on luck(HK government intervene). And later he praised HK government's performance. Which indirectly proves he knew it was best choice for HK government.

he didn't expect that HK is willing to risk her laissez faire reputation and intervene.

Soros attack Hong Kong Stock market is betting on Hong Kong will not intervene the Stock Market, because he thought the status of free market is more important than a couple of billions dollars losing in the market. This is what he believe.

It's not a couple of billions dollars, OK? UK, Tailand and other SE countries all lost huge amount of money because of Soros attacks. And losing money is not even the biggest issue. The upcoming recession is most terrifying. After witnessing so many tragedies, how HK government would response to Soros' attack was not very hard to guess. Soros must know what would happen.

 

[KungFuLee]

Your reply is totally irelevant to what you quoted. If I were Soros, I wouldn't bet my money on luck(HK government intervene). And later he praised HK government's performance. Which indirectly proves he knew it was best choice for HK government.
View attachment 587333

It's not a couple of billions dollars, OK? UK, Tailand and other SE countries all lost huge amount of money because of Soros attacks. And losing money is not even the biggest issue. The upcoming recession is most terrifying. After witnessing so many tragedies, how HK government would response to Soros' attack was very hard to guess. Soros must know what would happen.

You have no investment portfolio and have no idea how investment work, right?

First of all, he is not betting on luck, he is betting on something he think Hong Kong wouldn't do, you don't know how much Market integrity means to Hong Kong Government, he knows, and he think the government wouldn't, because he thought no amount of money loss would make Hong Kong dump their free market status on the market.

The gamble itself is NOT whether or not Hong Kong government have enough money to fend off an attack, the gamble is on whether or not Hong Kong government would do such a thing. And he lost.

If it's not a couple of billions dollars, how much would that be? Trillions dollars? Hong Kong Foreign Reserve have around 100 billions in 1997, that does not mean if they win or lose, it would be goes up with the net fortune entirely. That's because if and when you lose, Hong Kong dollars will not become valueless but at a lower price, depends on how deep the exchange rate was affected. You only lose several billions of Foreign Reserve. Notice losing 10 billions Foreign Exchange reserve would mean a 10% decrease of whole HKD value, which would already been a lot.

In case you are wondering, when Soros shorted GBP in 1992, he gained $1 billions dollar form it and GBP actually get stronger after the short, not worse..

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/george-soros-bank-of-england.asp

The British government gave in and withdrew from the ERM as it became clear that it was losing billions trying to buoy its currency artificially. Although it was a bitter pill to swallow, the pound came back stronger because the excess interest and high inflation were forced out of the British economy following the beating. Soros pocketed $1 billion on the deal and cemented his reputation as the premier currency speculator in the world.

And lol. Again, you don't understand how currency work. Hong Kong dollar, exchange rate specially is pegged to USD, no matter how much you depreciated HKD, it will keep 1 USD : 7.7-7.9 HKD exchange rate, this would limit the recession, unless you are trying to say HKD is so strong it will drag USD into recession as well. You can't do much damage to the aftermath, because it will always kept in equilibrium, as we are pegged with USD, if that did happen, people will simply exchange their HKD to USD, and since it is not free flow (as the rate is pegged) you lose nothing when you eventually revert back to HKD when the aftermath subsided.

 

[Mista]

我之前说过了，我不是学经济的。但是我看过这方面的影片，投机过程有人入场大量买进是很容易被投机客发现的。既然你懂，评价下我在#181的回复。合理吗？

作为一个经济学外行我可以瞎分析一下。尽管索罗斯的钱没有港府多，但是他的资金投向放到股市汇市里会有放大作用。而且能放大多少倍完全不可控。而且此前索罗斯对英国和东南亚国家的成功狙击已经让人闻风丧胆，他的名望足可以打击香港股汇市的信心。信心这东西对股票和汇率太重要了。这就使得放大作用得到了进一步的加强。所以香港政府对手里的外储是没有信心的，才会向中央政府求援。中央政府坚定的态度本身就是加强了香港股汇市的信心，起到了稳定人心的作用。港府没有动用到中央政府的外储，不代表中央的支持就没有作用。如果没有中央助阵撑场子，或许港府的外储就不够用了。

当然你可以说中央放话喊口号多多少少也有助稳定市场的作用，但实际上那是关键吗？我也可以说新加坡拯救了东南亚国家，我们不止喊口号甚至还做出了实际的行动呢，但这些是关键吗？不，我们没那么伟大也没那能耐。

The Asian financial crisis has taught Singapore several important lessons. The primary lesson is that Singapore has withstood the currency storm lashing the Asian region because of its strong economic fundamentals. With high current account surpluses, substantial budget surpluses, high savings rates, huge foreign exchange reserves, strong inflow of foreign direct investment, almost non-existent external debt, and negligible non-performing loans, Singapore was able to deter currency attacks and to take timely and bold measures to counter the large negative shocks triggered by the crisis. Because of its strong position, Singapore was able to promise loans of US$1 billion to Thailand and US$5 billion to Indonesia, as part of the IMF “bailout package” for these two countries. In addition, Singapore has used its foreign reserves to intervene directly in the foreign exchange markets, to help shore up the baht and rupiah in the midst of the crisis.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.475.8642&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Singapore, Bypassing IMF, Pledges $10 Billion to Indonesia
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/29/...pore-bypassing-imf-pledges-10-billion-to.html

Suharto Says Singapore Offered $10 Billion in Aid to Indonesia
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB87806434531735500

事实上就是连比香港小的新加坡做出了实际行动帮了邻国也没到处吹牛，但中国中央一分钱也没出以一国两制原则拒绝做出任何实际行动帮助香港，但事到如今却把功劳归功于自己，说是什么中央把索罗斯打退堂鼓得到全世界赞叹，什么港灿不懂感激等偏激言论。

凭良心说，如果你是普通的香港人你不会反感吗？你们不也对印度天天吹牛感到反感吗？

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Again, what is us? I don't see how Canadian hold sovereignty of Hong Kong, they help us fought the WW2, but that;s it.

If you want to talk about us, come back to China and we can talk, if not, please refrain from using "us" as we have no relation to Canada whatsoever

Fun to hear we turn our back on China from you when you did exactly just that.

Ok, you can keep repeating the same thing over again like a broken record, Mr. Strawman.

You HKers are full of yourselves, do you truly believe that your self-immolation tactics are going to disrupt China's development?

Even 7 million of HKers all killed themselves over the night and being completely vanished over the world, the Earth is going to keep rotating just like usual. China will keep marching forward, and nothing is going to be changed.

So go ahead and keep burning down your own city, we mainlanders whether from China or oversea are sitting back and enjoying the monkey show.

 

[Paul2]

you think they have a choice to do otherwise?

Yes they have, if they had balls and a dime of integrity, but no, they have no balls and no integrity because those elites of yours are all small people of low ability. I mean both your pro and anti-Beijing elites. They are both jokes. And those new coming Demosisto kids, they are jokes too.

Let's imagine what will happen if Demosisto will finally get the suffrage they want? You think Zhou Yongkang will sell his his family multi-billion business in the mainland and give you money to buy an apartment when he comes to power? Hell no.

If they will come to power, they will not be able to do a thing before the end of their first term. Even if you give them a decade and more, they will be a very weak government, no better than existing one. None of them have the strength for that, and, really, nobody in Hongkong has or would have in the near future.

After a few years of screaming and shouting, things may stabilise and they get a semblance of a working government, but what then? Your existing elites will be backstabbing them, I'm sure about that 1000%. And the popularly elected legislature will split, and there will be in a grid lock. Then there will be a new crisis again.

Here I can only say HKers got and will get the government they deserve. You can't make a biscuit from a sour dough.