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Why Westernized Chinese Dislike the West - Newsweek

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Why Westernized Chinese Dislike the West - Newsweek

I know this article is already two years old, but it is related to the concern about China's nationalism. It has its own merits of truth in the article.

A lot of people have the notion that a open and democratic China will be more friendly towards the western cultures and nations, but as this article has shown it is barely the case. Chinese who have seen and experienced the west have run out of patience with Westerners' ignorance and bias.

Rise of The Sea Turtles
China's most modern citizens aren't drawing it any closer to the West.

Charles Zhang is practically the personification of hip, 21st-century China. The flamboyant, MIT-educated entrepreneur founded and runs one of China's two biggest Internet portals, Sohu.com. Last week he welcomed an international swarm of revelers to an Olympic bash at Beijing's fashionable Lan Club (décor by Philippe Starck), where he announced his new gig during the Games: talk-show host. "I learned a lot from Letterman and Leno while living in the States," he said confidently.

Zhang is speaking to a different audience now. He says the anti-Western backlash that erupted in China this spring—after pro-Tibetan demonstrators disrupted the Olympic torch relay in London, Paris and San Francisco—was entirely justified. He himself called for a boycott of French goods and media after an unruly scrum broke out over the torch in Paris. "That was the first time Chinese people as a whole stood up to the world," he says. "It's good for Chinese people ... That incident proves that when Chinese are upset, they can find their voice."

Such sentiments are common on the mainland. But people like Zhang were supposed to be different: he's what Chinese call a hai gui—"sea turtle"—referring to someone who has lived overseas. (The phrase is a pun on haiwai guilai, meaning "returned from overseas.") Their numbers are growing by the tens of thousands every year, and as the sons and daughters of the elite, they have an outsize influence once they move back to China. In the West there's long been an assumption that this cohort would import Western values along with their iPods. They were envisioned as the bridge to a more open, liberal, Western-friendly China.

That daydream got a cold bath during the torch relay this spring, when furious Chinese students in the West showed they could be even more jingoistic than Chinese who had never left home—and good luck to anyone who dared buck the trend. One courageous Duke University freshman from the coastal city of Qingdao tried to intercede in a campus confrontation between a dozen or so pro-Tibetan demonstrators and a much larger group of pro-Beijing Chinese students. For her trouble, she was called a "race traitor" and a "whore"; feces were dumped on her parents' doorstep.

Measuring attitudes among sea turtles can be difficult, especially with all of Chinese society changing around them. Still, some empirical data are beginning to emerge. Prof. David Zweig, head of the Center on China's Transnational Relations at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, is directing a research project based on responses from thousands of returnees from campuses in Canada, Japan and Europe. The data show they're "no less jingoistic than those who have never gone abroad," Zweig says. "As in, 'My country, right or wrong'." What's more, he adds: "A significant proportion of them believe that using force to promote China's national interests is acceptable." Bottom line? "It means the post-1989 policy to imbue youth with nationalism through 'patriotic education' has succeeded," Zweig says.

China has a long tradition of chauvinism, and for some sea turtles, intimate acquaintance with Western attitudes has only intensified their feelings of defensiveness. Author and business consultant Jim MacGregor, who deals frequently with hai gui, says, "The richest people here are the most anti-Western." Even as they sip cappuccino at Starbucks or show off their new Buicks, the last thing most want is to make over their homeland in the West's image. They're after something far more ambitious: a China that lives up to their sense of national greatness. The pacesetters among hai gui don't aspire to be "modern," as Europeans and Americans often use the word—as a synonym for Western. Instead, prosperous young returnees tend to see themselves emphatically as modern Chinese.

Previous generations of sea turtles were patriotic in a different way. A century or more ago, Chinese students were sent abroad to learn science and technology from the West, and returned with a sense of mission. "They felt the most important thing was to help Chinese education; they wanted to teach," says dissident journalist Dai Qing, who has just finished writing a book about that era.

Now the business opportunities available on the mainland are at least as big a draw for returnees. But even someone like Dai, who served a term in prison for opposing the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown, says she feels the tug of the motherland. She's just returned from her fourth stint overseas—a year at Australian National University studying "relations between dictatorships and individuals." When she first left the country in 1991 for a Nieman Fellowship at Harvard, many acquaintances mistakenly assumed she'd never go home. "People say, 'Dai Qing's stupid—after 20 years of going overseas she doesn't even have a green card'," she says with a laugh.

Many sea turtles have their own theories about why Chinese overseas might show a hostile streak. For one thing, they run out of patience with Westerners' ignorance. "To be honest, when we go abroad we do find people asking strange questions, like whether China has modern buildings or cars," says Danny Huang, who lived in Canada and the United States for more than a decade before returning to run an educational charity in Shanghai. "Sometimes it's hard not to feel they have some bias." For others, anger against the West can ease the pangs of homesickness, suggests Shanghai University film teacher Shu Haolun. "They need a bond to their motherland," says Shu, who studied cinema and photography at Southern Illinois University before returning to China in 2003. "They're being anti-Western to feel attached to their own country."

Some of the nationalism exhibited by Chinese living abroad might also be sustained, rather than diluted, by the Internet. "As soon as they get online they can be totally immersed in a Chinese environment," says Zhao Chuan, a novelist who lived in Australia from 1987 to 2000 before coming home to write about Shanghai. "When we were studying abroad ... occasionally you went to Chinatown to read a Chinese paper. Now if you're in the U.K. you can easily not read English papers or watch English TV."

Others say the returnees' driving force isn't exactly nationalism. Instead, they argue, it reflects the extraordinary assertiveness of young urban Chinese. Decades of strict one-child family-planning policies have produced a generation of only-children—"little emperors," the Chinese call them. "Young Chinese feel they have the right to speak out about anything," says Victor Yuan, who studied for a year at Harvard's Kennedy School and now heads Horizon, a market survey consultancy. Some rebel against both Chinese and Western norms—like architect Ma Yansong, who apprenticed under Zaha Hadid in London and is famous for his designs mocking the regime's obsession with huge, imposing buildings. "This generation doesn't want to accept any ideological message, whether it's from the Communist Party or Voice of America," says Yuan.

The power of hai gui is visibly growing. Two of China's cabinet ministers earned their doctorates at universities outside the country, and approximately 100 officials at the level of vice governor or higher have studied overseas for at least a year, according to Zweig's figures. Patriotism notwithstanding, he says his research suggests that as Chinese spend more time outside the country, their thinking becomes more nuanced and internationalist: "They don't want to see China pushed around but are smart enough to know China makes mistakes." At the Lan Club last week, Zhang said it's time for China to prove it can do things right. "After suffering for hundreds of years and then for 30 years scrambling to get things right, now China's getting the respect of the world," he said. "Chinese are gaining more self-respect, too, so they should become more responsible." With luck, that means becoming more responsible to the world, not just to China.
 
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International students of any nationality are not a good cross section of ordinary citizens of the home country. "Little emperors" as the article puts it is a good label, not just for overseas Chinese but for spoiled kids of any country.

This is not unique to international Chinese. If you look at international Arabs or international Africans, they tend to have gotten where they are because their parents are rich. They don't have to work in college, which means a greater chance of being spoiled. Most didn't get there through scholarship. And most do not care about grades because all they need is the prestige of an overseas degree to go back to their native country to take over daddy's business. In fact the problem is so bad that there's an underground market for international students who fail their degrees. They know when they get home it will be near impossible to verify their credentials, so some just waste all of their parents' money then buy a fake degree, failing school on purpose because they know they won't need it.

When I think Westernized I think of being born and raised in western countries. Not international students.
 
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Yawn, another boring Anti west thread. These are spammed across the forums daily with the other "I HATE AMERICA" "I HATE INDIA" "PAKISTAN IS BETTER THEN INDIA" threads. So so so boring.
 
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International students of any nationality are not a good cross section of ordinary citizens of the home country. "Little emperors" as the article puts it is a good label, not just for overseas Chinese but for spoiled kids of any country.

This is not unique to international Chinese. If you look at international Arabs or international Africans, they tend to have gotten where they are because their parents are rich. They don't have to work in college, which means a greater chance of being spoiled. Most didn't get there through scholarship. And most do not care about grades because all they need is the prestige of an overseas degree to go back to their native country to take over daddy's business. In fact the problem is so bad that there's an underground market for international students who fail their degrees. They know when they get home it will be near impossible to verify their credentials, so some just waste all of their parents' money then buy a fake degree, failing school on purpose because they know they won't need it.

When I think Westernized I think of being born and raised in western countries. Not international students.

Westernization is a process, being born and raised in western countries means being born Western. There's no process involved.
 
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Yawn, another boring Anti west thread. These are spammed across the forums daily with the other "I HATE AMERICA" "I HATE INDIA" "PAKISTAN IS BETTER THEN INDIA" threads. So so so boring.


I think you meant "than",

also no one has brought up any India vs Pakistan talk yet...so let it be
 
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It's not exactly anti western and actually have some points. There are international students who muck around in uni because I've seen them around mine. As I posted before international students are either serious about their study or don't give a damn, it is somewhat polarised.

I also noticed that chinese international students overseas tends to stay in their own groups, whereas people who actually spent their lives living outside made friends more readily from various backgrounds. I also feel chinese students' potentials are limited by their inexperience (and a subconscious unwillingness?) at team work as it is not emphasised in their curriculum at home, which can really put them at a disadvantage. For example, they are often puzzled at the group work grading system in US, which for some courses gave same mark to everyone in a group even if they put in different amounts of work

Western society values communication skills very highly, is what I observed. They would rather hire a person because he can get points through clearly rather than specific technical skills. Those can be trained, but the ability for good clear communications will work for you from the first day.
 
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International students of any nationality are not a good cross section of ordinary citizens of the home country. "Little emperors" as the article puts it is a good label, not just for overseas Chinese but for spoiled kids of any country.

This is not unique to international Chinese. If you look at international Arabs or international Africans, they tend to have gotten where they are because their parents are rich. They don't have to work in college, which means a greater chance of being spoiled. Most didn't get there through scholarship. And most do not care about grades because all they need is the prestige of an overseas degree to go back to their native country to take over daddy's business. In fact the problem is so bad that there's an underground market for international students who fail their degrees. They know when they get home it will be near impossible to verify their credentials, so some just waste all of their parents' money then buy a fake degree, failing school on purpose because they know they won't need it.

When I think Westernized I think of being born and raised in western countries. Not international students.

The article also said that those international students are more jingoistic and holds a more hostile attitude towards the west than the ordinary citizens. The reason is very understandable, since they live in the west, they have the first hand experience of those western ignorance and bias comparing to those who live in China and have limited knowledge of how the people in the western nations really think. This western ignorance and bias is exactly what causes this their anti west sentiments in the first place.

Also being "little emperor" is not unqiue to those international students, almost everyone who was born after 1978 are "little emperor" because of the one child policy.
 
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I think you meant "than",

also no one has brought up any India vs Pakistan talk yet...so let it be

It's pretty obvious i meant "than" You don't need to reply correcting me. It shows you are trying to be arrogant.


Also i never said anyone had brought up India vs Pakistan. I was talking about how this forum is spammed with threads on the subject.
 
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It may also has something to do with the fact a lot of prestigious institutions of higher education in the U.S generally has a left-leaning and anti-Western intellectual climate.

I remember watching a discussion panel on the direction of Chinese politics. In the Q&A section someone from the audience asked if the growing number of Chinese students in the West will accelerate political reform at home, all panelists answered no and one of them went as far as saying the leftist atmosphere in top U.S universities has the risk of turning Chinese students into 'real Communists'.


Personally though, I think the effect of intellectual atmospheres is probably limited. The real story here is Western education system has produced a generation of Chinese overseas students who are generally more capable of thinking independently and critically. Combining with a more personal and in-depth understanding of the West, it makes them far more skeptical of Western value and system than they otherwise would be.

I have a lot of faith in the young sea turtles. Comparing them to those more famous liberal or pro-democracy intellectuals who grew up during the Cultural Revolution and rose to preeminence during the 80s, the difference is night and day. Those old-timers can't even construct a coherent argument and really have no original thought of their own, all they can do is substituting the Maoist fanaticism of the Cultural Revolution with a new zombie-like Western worship. The recently jailed Liu 'China need to be colonized for 300 years' Xiaobo being one such example.

Some Westerners need to give up the illusion that their way of life is so good that the only reason people from other cultures are not following their way is because evil, repressive governments kept the knowledge of these wonderful, enlightened Western practices away from the benighted and brainwashed masses. And everyone will begin adopt their value and system as soon as they have the chance to experience their societies.

The same can be said about China though. I've meet countless Chinese who think all Western disagreements with China arise from their not understanding the 5000 years old Chinese culture and such.

Take Kevin Rudd for example. a lot of Chinese assumed just because he studied Chinese culture and language, he'll be more 'pro-China' and less insisting on promoting Western concepts of human rights and democracy. When that didn't happen they just don't know how to react and at the end behaved more hostile toward him than they should have.

Anyway, it's inevitable when Chinese begin to interact more with the Western world they'll no longer look at the West with rose-tainted glasses as they did during the 80s.
 
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The reason is very understandable, since they live in the west, they have the first hand experience of those western ignorance and bias comparing to those who live in China and have limited knowledge of how the people in the western nations really think.

They do not live in a normal community of the West. They live in colleges, full of opinions of every type. And also full of radicals, human rights activists, terrorist supporters, communists, libertarians, and whatever else bored college kids looking to get laid start up these days.

It's not too hard to see why they think the West are hypocrites or biased in that kind of environment.
 
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They do not live in a normal community of the West. They live in colleges, full of opinions of every type. And also full of radicals, human rights activists, terrorist supporters, communists, libertarians, and whatever else bored college kids looking to get laid start up these days.

It's not too hard to see why they think the West are hypocrites or biased in that kind of environment.

The mainstream media and some of the politicians did not help either in the examples that the article has given.
 
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Coming to an open world might be a big change for them. They are not used to the free press and other little freedoms like protests, etc. And also, the open culture in terms of love, sex and marriage.

Every culture is unique in their own ways.

Sudden exposure to freedom can confuse those who don't understand it.
In the end, as long as Human rights are not violated ... we can't blame any culture.
 
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and what do you think real "westerners" on the "outside" think?

KKK, sexism, racism, drugs, street thugs, all that sh* just below the surface.
 
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and what do you think real "westerners" on the "outside" think?

KKK, sexism, racism, drugs, street thugs, all that sh* just below the surface.


I can assure you that any country has these parts. If not, you don't really know about the dynamics of society and groups/community.
 
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Coming to an open world might be a big change for them. They are not used to the free press and other little freedoms like protests, etc. And also, the open culture in terms of love, sex and marriage.

Every culture is unique in their own ways.

Sudden exposure to freedom can confuse those who don't understand it.
In the end, as long as Human rights are not violated ... we can't blame any culture.

Sounds like those people have been kept in the closet for their entire life before they can come to the west. In the article, it said that many of those people who are aboard are the sons and daughters of the elites(being rich or powerful or well connected or both) in China, which means they probably have more freedom even by western standard. Also many of the people the article has talked about has spent a large potion of their lives in the west.
 
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