Why the TTP is undefeatable

[KaiserX]

I completely agree with you. It's foolish that they think this is gonna work.

They need to adopt an approach that is similar to Iran's. Iranians are very nationalistic but also value their religion.

Pakistan itself was created as a Muslim homeland, and is an Islamic Republic. They are causing moderate people to lean towards radicalism like TTP, by passing laws that not even the average Muslim can agree with! Instead even if they don't follow 100% Islamic law, it should be followed to a good degree. Where people can't deny that this is a Muslim state.

The more religious folks won't feel the need to go to a TTP route, they'll rather use formal political routes to get their point across because their problems with the state won't be serious.

Bro pakistanis are most hypocriticql muslims on the planet. Most pakistanis will view themselves as “good” muslims while inviting transgenders to weddings.

Most muslims are like this but pakistanis always bring religion into everything and go about crusadint all over world projecting their version of islam. You will never see indian muslims arab muslims any other muslims using islams name as pakys do.

Pakys have been brainwashed since day 1. Islam must be removed completely from society for atleast 1-2 generations. We need an attaturk like leader not because i agree with them but because pakistani society has to be cleaned of all its superstitione extremist belefs. After a generation or 2 of development we can bring back Islamic conservatism as a developed society.

I honestly believe such extremism is needed to counteract the islamist cancer that we destroy pak in a few years. On the curret trend we are at I expect a full blown taliban take over of islamabad by as soon as 2025-2026. At that point what will become of our sisters mothers daughters????

We cannot have a 3rd or 4th grade society and expect it to be islamic in any form.

 

[Wolfhunter]

Your daily friendly reminder to f*** the taliban with a baseball bat whilst riding a donkey.

 

[TheSolution]

Bro pakistanis are most hypocriticql muslims on the planet. Most pakistanis will view themselves as “good” muslims while inviting transgenders to weddings.

Most muslims are like this but pakistanis always bring religion into everything and go about crusadint all over world projecting their version of islam. You will never see indian muslims arab muslims any other muslims using islams name as pakys do.

Pakys have been brainwashed since day 1. Islam must be removed completely from society for atleast 1-2 generations. We need an attaturk like leader not because i agree with them but because pakistani society has to be cleaned of all its superstitione extremist belefs. After a generation or 2 of development we can bring back Islamic conservatism as a developed society.

I honestly believe such extremism is needed to counteract the islamist cancer that we destroy pak in a few years. On the curret trend we are at I expect a full blown taliban take over of islamabad by as soon as 2025-2026. At that point what will become of our sisters mothers daughters????

We cannot have a 3rd or 4th grade society and expect it to be islamic in any form.

That is the worst plan I've ever heard ngl

All we need is proper reforms by revolutionary leaders! From how our society thinks, our national identity, national narrative, and also reforms for our institutions and education curriculums - a complete overhaul!

Teach Islam properly rather than the low IQ random mullah uncles who grow a beard, watch a few YouTube videos and then become qualified to teach.

There is no quality or proper checks on those who are seen as important Islamic figures.

We need minds like Mohammad Hijab and Daniel Haqiqatjou. Both have formal education, Islamic education and can apply it to philosophy and the context of the world & society.

 

[KaiserX]

That is the worst plan I've ever heard ngl

All we need is proper reforms by revolutionary leaders! From how our society thinks, our national identity, national narrative, and also reforms for our institutions and education curriculums - a complete overhaul!

Teach Islam properly rather than the low IQ random mullah uncles who grow a beard, watch a few YouTube videos and then become qualified to teach.

There is no quality or proper checks on those who are seen as important Islamic figures.

We need minds like Mohammad Hijab and Daniel Haqiqatjou. Both have formal education, Islamic education and can apply it to philosophy and the context of the world & society.

State shouldnt get involved in religious teaching. State should not involve in propagating any religion. Look at the condition of iran and afghanistan today. You will use Allahs name in vain and within a generation most pakistanis will cursr islam as iranians do today.

State should focus on education healthcare defence economic opportunities. Look how even countries like KSA are moving forward and you think solution is to teach “Proper Islamic education” what a joke. Repackage and repeat the same policies we have attempted since the days if Zia.

Pakistan doesnt need to be a islamic country or a secular country. We just need to be a normal country. Look at indonesia or turkey or malaysia. They keep their islam in their hearts and are far better muslims on average than most pakistanis. Why cant we just be normal people??? Allah has not ordained us to spread islam. Infact if anything Allah would be disapointed at how we have destroted the name of Islam in our region.

Id rather repurpose existing madrrassah to build modern schools than built new maddrassag. Unfortunately today even educated pakistanis have madrassah level logic

Pakistan does not have oil or gas where it can afford millions study in maddrassah and pray 10 times a day. You idiots think those who cannot even feed themselves a roti will worry abt islamic education? Oh bhai this is what i call chutiya jahil mentality that is prevelent in pakistan today.

Once we are developed country maybe. But we will never become developed or strong be repurposinh same policies.

 

[Wolfhunter]

Pakistan doesnt need to be a islamic country or a secular country. We just need to be a normal country.

 

[SQ8]

State shouldnt get involved in religious teaching. State should not involve in propagating any religion. Look at the condition of iran and afghanistan today. You will use Allahs name in vain and within a generation most pakistanis will cursr islam as iranians do today.

State should focus on education healthcare defence economic opportunities. Look how even countries like KSA are moving forward and you think solution is to teach “Proper Islamic education” what a joke. Repackage and repeat the same policies we have attempted since the days if Zia.

Pakistan doesnt need to be a islamic country or a secular country. We just need to be a normal country. Look at indonesia or turkey or malaysia. They keep their islam in their hearts and are far better muslims on average than most pakistanis. Why cant we just be normal people??? Allah has not ordained us to spread islam. Infact if anything Allah would be disapointed at how we have destroted the name of Islam in our region.

Id rather repurpose existing madrrassah to build modern schools than built new maddrassag. Unfortunately today even educated pakistanis have madrassah level logic

Pakistan does not have oil or gas where it can afford millions study in maddrassah and pray 10 times a day. You idiots think those who cannot even feed themselves a roti will worry abt islamic education? Oh bhai this is what i call chutiya jahil mentality that is prevelent in pakistan today.

Once we are developed country maybe. But we will never become developed or strong be repurposinh same policies.

Unless the rotting diseased carcass that is Pakistani socioeconomic culture is separated from religion and is thrown out - nothing will change

 

[Wolfhunter]

Unless the rotting diseased carcass that is Pakistani socioeconomic culture is separated from religion and is thrown out - nothing will change

Great observation, but the question remains. From an outside perspective, how does Pakistan extricate itself from this seemingly endless quagmire?

 

[KaiserX]

Great observation, but the question remains. From an outside perspective, how does Pakistan extricate itself from this seemingly endless quagmire?

I have a solution but it is not easy and will cost the lives og possibly upto hundred thousand BUT it will help pakistan achieve its full development potential in 1-2 generation. The solution is to implement same attaturk policies as were implemented in turkey.

Ban islam in public. Including burka and headscarvs. Ban all religious groups/parties. Ban all religious education ezcept in select institutions ran by govt.

Dealing with terrorist. Bomb afghanistan. Within pak publically hang dozens of ttp fighters along with there families. Execute anyone with any involvement in terror. Execute all mullah or deport them to afghanistan.

Make urdu mandatory. Get rid of arabic alphabet to be replaced by english. Presidential system with governors in each province. Get rid of every british era colonial law. Get rid if every shariah islamic law. A single uniform law will be followed equally by everyone.

 

[Wolfhunter]

I have a solution but it is not easy and will cost the lives og possibly upto hundred thousand BUT it will help pakistan achieve its full development potential in 1-2 generation. The solution is to implement same attaturk policies as were implemented in turkey.

Ban islam in public. Including burka and headscarvs. Ban all religious groups/parties. Ban all religious education ezcept in select institutions ran by govt.

Dealing with terrorist. Bomb afghanistan. Within pak publically hang dozens of ttp fighters along with there families. Execute anyone with any involvement in terror. Execute all mullah or deport them to afghanistan.

Make urdu mandatory. Get rid of arabic alphabet to be replaced by english. Presidential system with governors in each province. Get rid of every british era colonial law. Get rid if every shariah islamic law. A single uniform law will be followed equally by everyone.

Sadly there is little appetite for such broad sweeping changes. As for banning Islam in public, that is a gross violation of human rights, not to mention you would have no local ownership from the people of Pakistan of such proposals.

 

[KaiserX]

Sadly there is little appetite for such broad sweeping changes. As for banning Islam in public, that is a gross violation of human rights, not to mention you would have no local ownership from the people of Pakistan of such proposals.

Religion in general. Unfortunately there is no other option. Pakistan has cancer which spread and requires stong chemo. Once we are developed educated society we can bring back islam full force like turkey indinesia are doing today

 

[Wolfhunter]

Religion in general. Unfortunately there is no other option. Pakistan has cancer which spread and requires stong chemo. Once we are developed educated society we can bring back islam full force like turkey indinesia are doing today

Banning religion is simply not possible. Case studies in history exist where this has failed. You cannot look at examples such as Japan and China and apply them to Pakistan.

Religious suppression never works out well in the end. Just look at Mao’s efforts during the 60’s and 70’s it never truly abolished religion- Buddhism, Taoism and even Islam exist to this date.

In fact the harsh enforcement of Mao’s doctrine is one of the reasons why ETIM came into existence as a movement both within and outside China.

 

[SQ8]

Great observation, but the question remains. From an outside perspective, how does Pakistan extricate itself from this seemingly endless quagmire?

Since neither the funds nor the political will nor practical possibility exists to replicate the Israeli barrier at Gaza at the Afghanistan border - the only way is to increase education while targeting extremists both in society (removing extremist preachers) and a combination of reeducation camps and basic “removal” of the fringe elements. Kinetic operations against elements operating both in and out of Afghanistan while addressing immediate needs of people impacted by those influences in KP(Fata areas) and Balochistan.

Part of the issue is the “moral lines” where people are abducted en masse without understanding who is capable of being rehabilitated and who is not. A great example of using people’s fears and traditions against them is Brig Gen Bliss’s use of pigs blood and pigs skin to quell the idea of martyrdom within the local population. Use the same fears with the TTP because while their senior leadership will see through this their foot soldiers are dumb enough to be convinced that just getting killed and meeting this fate would make their martyr situation unholy.

Psyops is practically non existent - there arent any commando solos in the air broadcasting consistent anti TTP and anti BLA propaganda and instead handled all by word of mouth or corrupt civil servants.
This in turn requires tackling corruption because executing such programs is not doable if the grass roots system to execute it is corrupt as well. The military’s budget(which is now a hobsons choice) Will have to be reduced, convey a message plain and simple to India - send one airplane beyond the border and the nuclear weapons go alert 5 - public facilities for state functions reduced while white elephants like Pakistan International Airlines sold off.

Pakistan has more losses in ghost employees than anyone else but then I am dithering towards utopian ideals.

Long story short - this is a very complex mess that may or may not be beyond saving

 

[KaiserX]

Banning religion is simply not possible. Case studies in history exist where this has failed. You cannot look at examples such as Japan and China and apply them to Pakistan.

Religious suppression never works out well in the end. Just look at Mao’s efforts during the 60’s and 70’s it never truly abolished religion- Buddhism, Taoism and even Islam exist to this date.

In fact the harsh enforcement of Mao’s doctrine is one of the reasons why ETIM came into existence as a movement both within and outside China.

It has worked in turkey in china in many of the stans today. In quiet a few nations.

 

[TheSolution]

State shouldnt get involved in religious teaching. State should not involve in propagating any religion. Look at the condition of iran and afghanistan today. You will use Allahs name in vain and within a generation most pakistanis will cursr islam as iranians do today.

State should focus on education healthcare defence economic opportunities. Look how even countries like KSA are moving forward and you think solution is to teach “Proper Islamic education” what a joke. Repackage and repeat the same policies we have attempted since the days if Zia.

Pakistan doesnt need to be a islamic country or a secular country. We just need to be a normal country. Look at indonesia or turkey or malaysia. They keep their islam in their hearts and are far better muslims on average than most pakistanis. Why cant we just be normal people??? Allah has not ordained us to spread islam. Infact if anything Allah would be disapointed at how we have destroted the name of Islam in our region.

Id rather repurpose existing madrrassah to build modern schools than built new maddrassag. Unfortunately today even educated pakistanis have madrassah level logic

Pakistan does not have oil or gas where it can afford millions study in maddrassah and pray 10 times a day. You idiots think those who cannot even feed themselves a roti will worry abt islamic education? Oh bhai this is what i call chutiya jahil mentality that is prevelent in pakistan today.

Once we are developed country maybe. But we will never become developed or strong be repurposinh same policies.

Teaching and enforcing is not the same thing, I'm not suggesting an Afghan Taliban style.

Your suggestions of completely eradicating religion will create TTP MAX and I guarantee you will never win this war, it would be Soviets in Afghanistan V2. You will destroy the country in the process.

Only way to counter a religious narrative is by weakening their stance and make it less appealing. Their stance is so powerful because you want to apply anti-Islamic laws to an Islamic country.

No matter how nuch you deny it, but outside of certain pockets of society, Pakistan is a religiously conservative country. The more you propose LGBT and Joyland, the more you strengthen the appeal of TTP to them.

 

[Wolfhunter]

Since neither the funds nor the political will nor practical possibility exists to replicate the Israeli barrier at Gaza at the Afghanistan border - the only way is to increase education while targeting extremists both in society (removing extremist preachers) and a combination of reeducation camps and basic “removal” of the fringe elements. Kinetic operations against elements operating both in and out of Afghanistan while addressing immediate needs of people impacted by those influences in KP(Fata areas) and Balochistan.

Part of the issue is the “moral lines” where people are abducted en masse without understanding who is capable of being rehabilitated and who is not. A great example of using people’s fears and traditions against them is Brig Gen Bliss’s use of pigs blood and pigs skin to quell the idea of martyrdom within the local population. Use the same fears with the TTP because while their senior leadership will see through this their foot soldiers are dumb enough to be convinced that just getting killed and meeting this fate would make their martyr situation unholy.

Psyops is practically non existent - there arent any commando solos in the air broadcasting consistent anti TTP and anti BLA propaganda and instead handled all by word of mouth or corrupt civil servants.
This in turn requires tackling corruption because executing such programs is not doable if the grass roots system to execute it is corrupt as well. The military’s budget(which is now a hobsons choice) Will have to be reduced, convey a message plain and simple to India - send one airplane beyond the border and the nuclear weapons go alert 5 - public facilities for state functions reduced while white elephants like Pakistan International Airlines sold off.

Pakistan has more losses in ghost employees than anyone else but then I am dithering towards utopian ideals.

Long story short - this is a very complex mess that may or may not be beyond saving

Excellent post.