Why the TTP is undefeatable

[Splurgenxs]

Americans cannot be trusted.

They are the type to support both sides for the sole purpose of seeing maximum destruction.

Neither can the Afghans, as soon as they see TTP picking up pace they may provide them full support to achieve their goal. (Loy Afghanistan)

China seems to be funding oil infra in Afg.

 

[TheSolution]

China seems to be funding oil infra in Afg.

And you think no one anticipated that?

This was literally being spoken about when the US withdrawal talks began, that China would enter to rebuild the country.

 

[Al_Muhannad]

Pakistanis are also to blame for never opposing the horrible governance imposed on the nation.

They buy out your leaders to follow their orders and then the people worship them for foolish reasons like ethnic or tribal affiliations.

Either you'll die on this hill or continue to live in a failed sh#thole

That only happens in societies which have unadulterated thought processes: CCP is one such example. Now study the history of our fake-intellectuals ( scientists, judiciary, military, clergy) and you will not find them.

 

[TheSolution]

That only happens in societies which have unadulterated thought processes: CCP is one such example. Now study the history of our fake-intellectuals ( scientists, judiciary, military, clergy) and you will not find them.

In a sense Imran Khan may not be the exact thing the nation requires for a turn around, but he could be an awakening towards it.

People are demanding more effective governance and openly rejecting the corrupt & incompetent faces the establishment was use to.

They need to stay firm in rejecting those faces and demand competent effective governance. There is no system of meritocracy in place as nepotism reigns supreme. Our true intellectuals don't reach important positions.

 

[Olympus81]

Simply put this ilk of extremism (TTP and Taliban sympathizers) can only be removed if the institutions are working properly.

- Dispense of justice
- Going after terrorists and their backers
- No release of terrorists on any pretext
- Clear narrative that extremism will not be tolerated

Do this consistently over a period of time and I am sure things will fall into place.

These pricks know the government can’t do sh!t against Lal Masjid folks. They know the military has released Ehsanullah Ehsan on some pretext. They know the military did not go full throttle against APS attackers. They know they have sympathizers. They know the state will come and negotiate with them. This only emboldens them.

 

[TheSolution]

Simply put this ilk of extremism (TTP and Taliban sympathizers) can only be removed if the institutions are working properly.

- Dispense of justice
- Going after terrorists and their backers
- No release of terrorists on any pretext
- Clear narrative that extremism will not be tolerated

Do this consistently over a period of time and I am sure things will fall into place.

These pricks know the government can’t do sh!t against Lal Masjid folks. They know the military has released Ehsanullah Ehsan on some pretext. They know the military did not go full throttle against APS attackers. They know they have sympathizers. They know the state will come and negotiate with them. This only emboldens them.

Also Pakistan's current political existence is oxymoronic by nature.

"Islamic Republic" and Joyland & LGBT laws do not go together. The biggest blow to TTP is not military, it's destroying their ideological narrative.

Pakistan should review it's laws and make them more in accordance to Islam, even if not 100% accurate. (Don't go Afghan Taliban mode)

Generally every Muslim has a redline until they see a "Muslim" state as no longer Muslim. Pakistan crosses that redline giving fuel to TTP and even moderate folk lean towards their solution thinking perhaps they are right.

Pakistan needs to implement a modern form of Islamic law - even if not 100% accurate. After this if any people like the TTP have an issue with the state Islamically, it won't be to the degree where they pick up guns and sacrifice their life, they will be willing to work under the national political framework.

My belief is that after this is implemented, give TTP an option to surrender as they are fighting against an Islamic state, if they don't then move to annihilate them. Their support base, recruitment, will take a significant hit.

@PanzerKiel

 

[EasyNow]

Pakistanis are also to blame for never opposing the horrible governance imposed on the nation.

They buy out your leaders to follow their orders and then the people worship them for foolish reasons like ethnic or tribal affiliations.

Either you'll die on this hill or continue to live in a failed sh#thole

Also Pakistan's current political existence is oxymoronic by nature.

"Islamic Republic" and Joyland & LGBT laws do not go together. The biggest blow to TTP is not military, it's destroying their ideological narrative.

Pakistan should review it's laws and make them more in accordance to Islam, even if not 100% accurate. (Don't go Afghan Taliban mode)

Generally every Muslim has a redline until they see a "Muslim" state as no longer Muslim. Pakistan crosses that redline giving fuel to TTP and even moderate folk lean towards their solution thinking perhaps they are right.

Pakistan needs to implement a modern form of Islamic law - even if not 100% accurate. After this if any people like the TTP have an issue with the state Islamically, it won't be to the degree where they pick up guns and sacrifice their life, they will be willing to work under the national political framework.

My belief is that after this is implemented, give TTP an option to surrender as they are fighting against an Islamic state, if they don't then move to annihilate them. Their support base, recruitment, will take a significant hit.

@PanzerKiel

Sorry, history proves that the remedy to religious extremism is not more religion.

Pakistan allows people to live the epitome of religious life - a fully halal life already. But terrorists will find an excuse. The true remedy is a genuine rule of law. Everyone is supposed to know that whatever your beef, you can't attack the state.

What you're suggesting is basically give the ttp what they are asking for.

 

[Sayfullah]

Sorry, history proves that the remedy to religious extremism is not more religion.

This is where you and all of Pakistan is wrong.
TTP can only be defeated religiously.

 

[TheSolution]

Sorry, history proves that the remedy to religious extremism is not more religion.

Pakistan allows people to live the epitome of religious life - a fully halal life already. But terrorists will find an excuse. The true remedy is a genuine rule of law. Everyone is supposed to know that whatever your beef, you can't attack the state.

What you're suggesting is basically give the ttp what they are asking for.

It's not giving TTP what they want. It's giving the people what they want after all it's an Islamic Republic is it not?

I don't care about TTP demands I'm strictly against negotiations but the current political system makes them stronger and also grows their support within the population.

I'm also not suggesting going Afghan Taliban mode.

In my opinion Pakistan's national narrative needs to be similar to Iran's - they are incredibly nationalistic but also value their Islamic beliefs. Pakistan needs to create this mindset in their population. Don't give fuel to TTP by crossing even the average Muslim's redline.

 

[CLUMSY]

I think the real problem is that we as a nation try to find our history somewhere else, arabization of the education curriculum and propaganda by various politicians has confused us even more. We try to find our history in Arabs, Turks and whatnot instead of the land of India

 

[KaiserX]

TTP in undefeatable because it has sympathy of 10% of religious/ethnic population of certain groups.

First blame indians, then blame NATO. In the end TTP is simply another wing of taliban which today is the granddaddy of islamist terror (isis/aq/isisk/etc).

Unfortunately pakistani leaders and people have lied to themselves for to long.

 

[Sayfullah]

crossing even the average Muslim's redline

It has been crossed already many times. Just recently with the transgender laws. But average Muslim looks towards religious parties and religious elements in political parties to correct the issue. As of right now their opposition is through protests and demonstrations. These people want to completely separate Islam from Pakistan and ban religious parties. They want to take away the only peaceful way people have to protest their laws. When you make peaceful opposition impossible then armed opposition becomes inevitable.
People here think without logic. Majority of Pakistan is still very conservative and Muslims. It’s not smart to turn the majority against the state with stupid actions that only please the elite.

 

[FuturePAF]

TTP in undefeatable because it has sympathy of 10% of religious/ethnic population of certain groups.

First blame indians, then blame NATO. In the end TTP is simply another wing of taliban which today is the granddaddy of islamist terror (isis/aq/isisk/etc).

Unfortunately pakistani leaders and people have lied to themselves for to long.

Let’s follow the money, where does the TTP and its ilk make money, domestically and internationally. Pakistan can work with its international partners like Saudi, Qatar and Turkey to fight the ideology and the financing of groups that hide behind religion.

As the old saying goes, follow the money.

The second key is good governance in Pakistan across the board. Corruption and sectarianism is a national security threat to the state. Ethnic/religious/class based carve outs will hollow out the nation. Nepotism and other methods that undermine meritocracy and fair market practices undermine development which can generate the taxes needed to provide the services that prevent people from joining these groups.

 

[KaiserX]

Let’s follow the money, where does the TTP and its ilk make money, domestically and internationally. Pakistan can work with its international partners like Turkey and Saudi to fight the ideology and the financing of groups that hide behind religion.

As the old saying goes, follow the money.

The second key is good governance in Pakistan across the board. Corruption and sectarianism is a national security threat to the state. Ethnic/religious/class based carve outs will hollow out the nation. Nepotism and other methods that undermine meritocracy and fair market practices undermine development which can generate the taxes needed to provide the services that prevent people from joining these groups.

Money know comes through international aid routed via taliban controlled afghanistan. Many reports state once the Taliban receive aid they first allocate to the Haqqanis, then their fighters loyalist including TTP fighters/families.

 

[TheSolution]

It has been crossed already many times. Just recently with the transgender laws. But average Muslim looks towards religious parties and religious elements in political parties to correct the issue. As of right now their opposition is through protests and demonstrations. These people want to completely separate Islam from Pakistan and ban religious parties. They want to take away the only peaceful way people have to protest their laws. When you make peaceful opposition impossible then armed opposition becomes inevitable.
People here think without logic. Majority of Pakistan is still very conservative and Muslims. It’s not smart to turn the majority against the state with stupid actions that only please the elite.

I completely agree with you. It's foolish that they think this is gonna work.

They need to adopt an approach that is similar to Iran's. Iranians are very nationalistic but also value their religion.

Pakistan itself was created as a Muslim homeland, and is an Islamic Republic. They are causing moderate people to lean towards radicalism like TTP, by passing laws that not even the average Muslim can agree with! Instead even if they don't follow 100% Islamic law, it should be followed to a good degree. Where people can't deny that this is a Muslim state.

The more religious folks won't feel the need to go to a TTP route, they'll rather use formal political routes to get their point across because their problems with the state won't be serious.