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Why Russia has no reason or right to complain about NATOs expansion.

I see mostly civilians in this picture protesting. They were fired upon.
That does not mean that they succeeded in anything except making their angry opinion heard. Not much unlike France some month ago. Was there a coup in France?
Yanukovich escaped due to his pending impeachment.


Yes, and that is the text of the Founding Act…

NATO fanboys who support Israel are now claiming morals and ethics how ironic !

Right wing Neo Nazi who fund Israel to the tune of billions every year to steal Palestinain land and even US veto any UN resolution are now fleeing with tails between thier legs

now they are preaching what is right and what is wrong, but one thing to say so sorry! too late now that boat sailed long ago

NATO moved its border closer to Russia

Russia did not move close to NATO

and Russia is not Palestine or Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Yemen

Russia is a Global Superpower you picked the wrong guy this time and you are trying to now play morals and ethnics when you released your going to get a bad beating

only way to sort out a bully is give me a good bloody noise

keep crying no one will help
 
This is really not so different from what the US/NATO were doing in Afghanistan. Trying to establish a base to monitor and stir. Eventually what started as a "cleaning up" operation grew into something else. Namely destabilise the region and particularly Pakistan. When US/NATO was met with resistance the vicious blame game and propaganda campaign was launched. Then, suddenly the Afghan women had to be freed from tyranny. Just one farce after another. Ukraine serves a similar purpose. An outpost to keep an eye on Russia. Russia might have a million faults, but resisting US/NATO outpost is not one of them.

They might have wanted a path to Central Asian energy resources and cut Pakistan a deal for their ports but that's all over.

911 was a failed and costly "investment" by the American government.
 
Except the Swede doesn't understand what is going on. With a UK naval base into Odessa, that is increasing Anglosaxons, which are already on two giant undeserved continents. And he wants to benefit them even more and help them expand more so.
The Swede knows that the Treaty of the Straits severly limits the Anglosaxons naval presence in the Black Sea.
 
It would have made more sense for swedes to be in charge and be doing that imo
 

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”​

It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union.

President Putin’s NATO Narrative​

The West’s supposed violation of a pledge not to enlarge NATO has long figured as a key element in Putin’s narrative about (and against) the Alliance. In his bombastic February 2007 speech to the Munich Security Conference, he said:

The Russian president returned to the subject in his March 18, 2014, Kremlin speech justifying Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea: “… they [Western leaders] have lied to us many times, made decisions behind our backs, placed before us an accomplished fact. This happened with NATO’s expansion to the east, as well as the deployment of military infrastructure at our borders.” Although it has been clear for several years that the Alliance has no appetite for putting Ukraine on a membership track, Putin went on to express horror at the prospect of NATO forces in Crimea: Russian inaction “would have meant that NATO’s navy would be right there in this city of Russia’s military glory [Sevastopol], and this would create not an illusory but a perfectly real threat to the whole of southern Russia.”
Western leaders never pledged not to enlarge NATO, a point that several analysts have demonstrated. Mark Kramer explored the question in detail in a 2009 article in The Washington Quarterly. He drew on declassified American, German and Soviet records to make his case and noted that, in discussions on German reunification in the two-plus-four format (the two Germanys plus the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France), the Soviets never raised the question of NATO enlargement other than how it might apply in the former German Democratic Republic (GDR).

The West’s NATO Commitment​

What the Germans, Americans, British and French did agree to in 1990 was that there would be no deployment of non-German NATO forces on the territory of the former GDR. I was a deputy director on the State Department’s Soviet desk at the time, and that was certainly the point of Secretary James Baker’s discussions with Gorbachev and his foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze. In 1990, few gave the possibility of a broader NATO enlargement to the east any serious thought.
The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:
  1. Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory.
  2. There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin.
  3. Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there.
When one reads the full text of the Woerner speech cited by Putin, it is clear that the secretary general’s comments referred to NATO forces in eastern Germany, not a broader commitment not to enlarge the Alliance.

Former Soviet President Gorbachev’s View​

We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.
Several years after German reunification, in 1997, NATO said that in the “current and foreseeable security environment” there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of new NATO members. Up until the Russian military occupation of Crimea in March, there was virtually no stationing of any NATO combat forces on the territory of new members. Since March, NATO has increased the presence of its military forces in the Baltic region and Central Europe.
Putin is not stupid, and his aides surely have access to the former Soviet records from the time and understand the history of the commitments made by Western leaders and NATO. But the West’s alleged promise not to enlarge the Alliance will undoubtedly remain a standard element of his anti-NATO spin. That is because it fits so well with the picture that the Russian leader seeks to paint of an aggrieved Russia, taken advantage of by others and increasingly isolated—not due to its own actions, but because of the machinations of a deceitful West.
If Gorbachev did indeed say this - then I must say for Russia, he truly is the gift that keeps giving.
 
NATO fanboys who support Israel are now claiming morals and ethics how ironic !

Right wing Neo Nazi who fund Israel to the tune of billions every year to steal Palestinain land and even US veto any UN resolution are now fleeing with tails between thier legs

now they are preaching what is right and what is wrong, but one thing to say so sorry! too late now that boat sailed long ago

NATO moved its border closer to Russia

Russia did not move close to NATO

and Russia is not Palestine or Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Yemen

Russia is a Global Superpower you picked the wrong guy this time and you are trying to now play morals and ethnics when you released your going to get a bad beating

only way to sort out a bully is give me a good bloody noise

keep crying no one will help
The only way Russia can give others a bloody nose is by shooting themselves in the foot with blood splashing.
 
NATO fanboys who support Israel are now claiming morals and ethics how ironic !

Right wing Neo Nazi who fund Israel to the tune of billions every year to steal Palestinain land and even US veto any UN resolution are now fleeing with tails between thier legs

now they are preaching what is right and what is wrong, but one thing to say so sorry! too late now that boat sailed long ago

NATO moved its border closer to Russia

Russia did not move close to NATO

and Russia is not Palestine or Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Yemen

Russia is a Global Superpower you picked the wrong guy this time and you are trying to now play morals and ethnics when you released your going to get a bad beating

only way to sort out a bully is give me a good bloody noise

keep crying no one will help

The Swede is yearning for pity and mercy. He expects brown nations to accept his plea. Let's condemn Russia and pat the Swede on his back. Won't happen. You reap what you sow.
 
why don't you spend time freeing hawaiians then?
There are plenty of things we do not spend time on.
Unlike Russia, the US does not have chat shows discussing the best way to invade Sweden. That means that Russia gets highlighted.
 
The US did not invade Cuba. Cubans invaded Cuba. When people like You cannot argue your case you start to call you opponent ”Indian”.

Looooooool ok mate.
Yet US managed to have land on Cuban Island for gitmo

You are so simple it's terrifying. Does your family think u are educated?
 
The Swede is yearning for pity and mercy. He expects brown nations to accept his plea. Let's condemn Russia and pat the Swede on his back. Won't happen. You reap what you sow.
We expect other countries to understand the UN Charter.
Most countries do, and have condemned Russia in the UN.
 
Looooooool ok mate.
Yet US managed to have land on Cuban Island for gitmo

You are so simple it's terrifying. Does your family think u are educated?

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The United States leased Guantanamo Bay from the Republic of Cuba after the Spanish-American war caused by Spain blowing up a US Navy ship. This happened around 60 years before the Cuba missile crisis. The US did not invade Cuba during the missile crisis. Cubans did.

And this is not about Cuba. It is about NATO expansion, so You are on ignore.
 
I am derailing the topic because you say so? Take a hike, Greek. LOL it is funny to see you jump into this discussion when you have nothing meaningful to say.
How am I defending him by disagreeing with him? You really are a weird person.
 

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