WHY Pakistanis don't like the US?

[karan.1970]

I think, before you guys bring in your $hiet, the statement is very logical, as the thread started is asking something from a Pakistani perspective

"The purpose of this thread is to really highlight some critical viewpoints from a PAKISTANI standpoint."

Above line is what the thread started specifically asked.

So, Indians replying to it with their usual BS & hate for Pakistan, doesn't goes with the scope of this thread.

I dont agree to that logic, which I believe is a little lame.. And unless its a Mod diktat with the threat of infractions, lets agree to disagree...

 

[TaimiKhan]

I think the real distrust of USA began when USA refused to side with Pakistan during Kargil and Nawaz Sharif was given the tongue lashing by Clinton when NS went to Washington to seek his support for a honorable way out for Pakistan out of the Kargil mess. The refusal to side with Pakistan resulted in a huge national embarrassment for Pakistan, especially Pakistani Military... Its reflected int he fact that since Kargil, Pakistan who, on a regular basis used to ask for US intervention in Kashmir, has virtually stopped singing that tune...

Nops, again Indian POV, not a Pakistani POV.

The major hate against US started after the Pressler amendment and has since grown with the US attitude with Pakistan.

They used Pakistan for nearly a decade and once their enemy was defeated, within one year they stabbed us in the back, that was the turning point and today we hate the US policies & its govts. After that whatever US has been doing, it adds to that hate.

I dont agree to that logic, which I believe is a little lame.. And unless its a Mod diktat with the threat of infractions, lets agree to disagree...

Yeah, i will keep diktating the thread and make sure Indian trolls don't troll and give us or impose their pov.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Right if it is not the establishment it is the various grass root organisations which have biased the public, 19 people have died protesting for a video and those protest were lead by whom exactly?

Anyways, only an external factor destabilising Pakistan is still the most popular feeling I get even on these forums...

External & internal both. Internal ones will never grow or succeed till any external one supports it. This is seen all around the world.

 

[SamantK]

US-India relations have nothing much to do with our thinking about the US, this is very natural and had to happen one day, as this is what the US is good at.

To Indians, double games of Pakistan are visible, but the double games of US are never visible, that is also very much understandable.

To India what is visible is immaterial here, US has helped Pakistan more than another country ( except China). US is the reason Pakistan could even think about attacking going to war with India...

I think the real distrust of USA began when USA refused to side with Pakistan during Kargil and Nawaz Sharif was given the tongue lashing by Clinton when NS went to Washington to seek his support for a honorable way out for Pakistan out of the Kargil mess. The refusal to side with Pakistan resulted in a huge national embarrassment for Pakistan, especially Pakistani Military... Its reflected int he fact that since Kargil, Pakistan who, on a regular basis used to ask for US intervention in Kashmir, has virtually stopped singing that tune...

Pakistan started hating US also for the limited support they gave in 71 - limited for Pakistan, too much for US because of the genocide.

 

[SamantK]

External & internal both. Internal ones will never grow or succeed till any external one supports it. This is seen all around the world.

For Pakistan It boils down to external influence.. You cannot have a country which does not have any undesirable external influence.. In Pakistan even the genuinely Internal factors are attributed to external factors only....

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Why Indians are answering in this thread?

Nobody asked for you.

Take your **** somewhere else.

they cant stop
they dont have anything else to do

 

[TaimiKhan]

To India what is visible is immaterial here, US has helped Pakistan more than another country ( except China). US is the reason Pakistan could even think about attacking going to war with India...


Pakistan started hating US also for the limited support they gave in 71 - limited for Pakistan, too much for US because of the genocide.

That is the issue, you will feel betrayed and hurt the most when someone you consider a friend betrays you or back stabs you. You won't feel that much hate & hurt if a stranger betrays you. I hope you get the point.

71 was also a factor, but as said turning point came with the Pressler Amendment. That was the turning point. And since you are an indian, i know its useless, but US has been involved with others who have done genocides and US itself has done genocides on number of occasions itself.

 

[TaimiKhan]

For Pakistan It boils down to external influence.. You cannot have a country which does not have any undesirable external influence.. In Pakistan even the genuinely Internal factors are attributed to external factors only....

For everyone it boils down to external influence. Would like to see your comments incase China/Pakistan starts to support financially and militarily the Maoists. Won't bring in Kashmir, as it would definitely derail the thread.

 

[SamantK]

That is the issue, you will feel betrayed and hurt the most when someone you consider a friend betrays you or back stabs you. You won't feel that much hate & hurt if a stranger betrays you. I hope you get the point.

71 was also a factor, but as said turning point came with the Pressler Amendment. That was the turning point. And since you are an indian, i know its useless, but US has been involved with others who have done genocides and US itself has done genocides on number of occasions itself.

I get the point and I respect it. Of course 71 was where I think it started, public opinion was forced to show that US is trying to screw Pakistan but it had it hands tied.. Nixon went out of the way to ignore the genocide but congress and media stepped up the pressure on Nixon and he had to back off.. After that one thing lead to another and Presller turned the tables, Pakistan wanted a nuclear weapon, US made itself clear that it could not support Pakistan if it went that way.. However Pakistan did and the public opinion obviously went south.. Why do you think it happened? Would you not say propaganda?

 

[karan.1970]

Yeah, i will keep diktating the thread and make sure Indian trolls don't troll and give us or impose their pov.

That's what I said mate.... If you are diktating that Indians should not post as a Mod, then I will defer to your diktat.. Else, if that comment was not a Mod ruling, then I do not agree to your POV that Indians should not post here.. No need for the aggression..

 

[SamantK]

For everyone it boils down to external influence. Would like to see your comments incase China/Pakistan starts to support financially and militarily the Maoists. Won't bring in Kashmir, as it would definitely derail the thread.

there have been quite a few indicators of those already, there was a very big weapons cache caught in BD, all Chinese, being expressly delivered to Maoists.. What GOI understood was that there was a problem which was being abetted by the foreign influence, so we did not bring in the military and kept it as an Internal issue. Despite the support from outside, the genesis of the problem is within.. I hope you understand that too..

 

[TaimiKhan]

there have been quite a few indicators of those already, there was a very big weapons cache caught in BD, all Chinese, being expressly delivered to Maoists.. What GOI understood was that there was a problem which was being abetted by the foreign influence, so we did not bring in the military and kept it as an Internal issue. Despite the support from outside, the genesis of the problem is within.. I hope you understand that too..

A cache of weapons doesn't means it was a direct support on official level. Weapons of Chinese origin can be bought from lot of places through lot of channels.

What i mean is, the day someone starts officially supporting anything inside another country, chances are that the internal issue will explode into something bigger. Th day maoists start getting official support on large scale, things will further deteriorate.

Anyway, we are derailing the thread.

 

[Rank]

9/11 and after 9/11 US attitude... the reason Pakistan hate Americans

Main points are two wars started by US against Muslims countries (Afghanistan & Iraq). Half population already hate US because of Iran/Iraq and Kuwait/Iraq War because that was the time when US entered in this Area and made their bases everywhere. After 1999 when US applied sanctions .... then 9/11 (Start two wars against Muslims and killed millions of Muslims everywhere). Also one perspective is UNITED NATION whom slogan is involve in peace but unfortunately they are "Uninvolved in Peace" everywhere and just peruse American/Israel policies everywhere.

Than attitude towards Pakistan. Another reason is supporting India since 2005 everywhere. Defaming Muslims especially Pakistani. offering state of the art weapons to India. Also another reason is daily drone strikes, breach border lines. 90% majority perception is US supporting many elements who were creating so much unrest in Pakistan. Also fund TTP and other terrorist organizations. One perspective is US defaming Muslims and creating problems for Pakistan also threatening and create media war against Pakistani's. Each and every failure of US; US put blame on Pakistan.

So there is not only one issue. But keep in mind Pakistani's never ever hate USA. They hate US govt ( s ) and their policies towards Pakistan.

 

[SamantK]

A cache of weapons doesn't means it was a direct support on official level. Weapons of Chinese origin can be bought from lot of places through lot of channels.

What i mean is, the day someone starts officially supporting anything inside another country, chances are that the internal issue will explode into something bigger. Th day maoists start getting official support on large scale, things will further deteriorate.

Anyway, we are derailing the thread.

You know the paranoia in India about ISI and the Chinese a cache of Chinese weapons and some bd generals saying that ISI was involved is enough to send alarms ringing in India..

All I am saying is there must be that level of genuine external activity to hate a country, but the beef with US can clearly be associated with propaganda before, now it has just spilled over... Maybe External factors are only present but the opportunity was given by internal forces, whether knowingly or unknowingly.. Not the case between China / Pakistan and India..

 

[TaimiKhan]

You know the paranoia in India about ISI and the Chinese a cache of Chinese weapons and some bd generals saying that ISI was involved is enough to send alarms ringing in India..

All I am saying is there must be that level of genuine external activity to hate a country, but the beef with US can clearly be associated with propaganda before, now it has just spilled over... Maybe External factors are only present but the opportunity was given by internal forces, whether knowingly or unknowingly.. Not the case between China / Pakistan and India..

Pressler Amendment and a decade of sanctions is not propaganda. Its a fact and truth.

As said, major hate among Pakistanis started due to Pressler Amendment and the actions later on and still going on. There is nothing for propaganda to do, educated Pakistanis have link to free media and press and internet and we can very well establish who is our friend and who is an enemy and who has what for us.