Why Pakistan won't give up Hafiz Saeed

[Umair Nawaz]

Wrong. Bangladesh started right when Urdu was imposed. The actual battle took 9 months. Now relook at Balochistan with this perspective.

No mr actually it was all started in march 71 to dec 71.

The Urdu n all is just a propaganda.
And i the told u actual reason that we didnt had a land route there for supplies n that proved to be decisive.
But anyways u just have 1 year left in Afg n Baluchistan. and after that another Grave will be dug in Afghan land like it was dug in 1923 of brits.

 

[Guest01]

Obviously the current strategy is not working, the Hafiz is not a hot potato, precisely because of the transparently propaganda purpose Indian authorities use him for - in other words, even the Indians are not persuaded other than the propaganda business, and the way to really nake the Hafiz a hot potato and at the same time high light the Indian Justice system, is to try him, give him the best defense possible and let the chips fall where they may - this will not only show that the Indian government and security establishment do not make unsubstantiated statements/claims, but are not just fair minded but also are genuinely interested in the truth and it's legal implications.

Short of this, it all so much trash propaganda

I will have to disagree again. Any trial in absentia with a such a hostile environment in Pakistan will only increase the legitimacy of Hafiz Saeed. That will put even those Pakistanis who see through his senselessness behind him. Legalities will then distort the abject reality. Better to keep things simple. Just to ensure that his terror credentials precede him when he wakes up each day. Stink will keep other having designs - off him.

No mr actually it was all started in march 71 to dec 71.

The Urdu n all is just a propaganda.And i the told u actual reason that we didnt had a land route there for supplies n that proved to be decisive.
But anyways u just have 1 year left in Afg n Baluchistan. and after that another Grave will be dug in Afghan land like it was dug in 1923 of brits.

Okay then. Have a Marde Monim sleep. It was my mistake taking up the discussion with you.

 

[Guest01]

US put up money for evidence leading to his conviction - not on his head, so don't resort to BS to further your argument - If India are persuaded that they have such information, certainly they should discuss the matter with their US ally. What could be more fair, transparent and a victory for the Indian justice system.

U.S. Puts $10 Million Bounty on Pakistan's Hafiz Saeed - WSJ.com

Your post suggests that to your Thinking Hafiz can be used for slinging mud and ensuring that it sticks to then pain the Pakistani state in a poor light - Sure, like I said, just trash, but if floats your boat , OK, however, how will you persuade anyone in Pakistan and elsewhere f all you seek is to do a tar and feather job?

You got it right. Hafiz will continue to be the mud cake. Sore Thumb. Achilles Heel. Aloo in the socked feet

He is better use that way rather then seeking to persuade a nation which seeks to find a use of him as a coagulant of terrorists. Also cheaper and more spectacular.

 

[muse]

I will have to disagree again. Any trial in absentia with a such a hostile environment in Pakistan will only increase the legitimacy of Hafiz Saeed. That will put even those Pakistanis who see through his senselessness behind him. Legalities will then distort the abject reality. Better to keep things simple. Just to ensure that his terror credentials precede him when he wakes up each day. Stink will keep other having designs - off him.
.

I have no problem with exposing the Hafiz IF a persuasive legal case exists, short of this, there will continue to be few takers in Pakistan because what Indians choose to believe is the business of Indians, however, a court of law, with the best defense, if the persuasive case can be made, then the credibility of Indian claims about Hafiz will be very difficult to surmount and the objective achieved.

If this is not done, the whole Hafiz issue in India and in Pakistan and the world wil continue to be seen as a propaganda piece.

 

[KRAIT]

U must be smoking real gud shyt.

Oh, I wish. I am not smoking anything, but tobacco.

My point is that both India and Pakistan had used and still use, proxies to safeguard their interests.

It will be destructive if both countries keep going on this option. Mutual dialogue and bi-lateral agreements is the only way forward.

Otherwise both nations will be enemies like England and France were before their wars stopped, who later realized that being in a Union, European Union, make them much more stable and strong.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

No mr actually it was all started in march 71 to dec 71.

The Urdu n all is just a propaganda.
And i the told u actual reason that we didnt had a land route there for supplies n that proved to be decisive.
But anyways u just have 1 year left in Afg n Baluchistan. and after that another Grave will be dug in Afghan land like it was dug in 1923 of brits.

I don't think that I will go with that rather amusing assessment; the and all that included.....
Let us wait and see. The "Dum-Pukht" Handi is still on a very low and slow fire. Something will come out of that Handi after all.

 

[Guest01]

I have no problem with exposing the Hafiz IF a persuasive legal case exists, short of this, there will continue to be few takers in Pakistan because what Indians choose to believe is the business of Indians, however, a court of law, with the best defense, if the persuasive case can be made, then the credibility of Indian claims about Hafiz will be very difficult to surmount and the objective achieved.

If this is not done, the whole Hafiz issue in India and in Pakistan and the world wil continue to be seen as a propaganda piece.

The degree of persuasiveness here is relative. For Pakistanis. For other world. For India. Not enough objectivity there to achieve a logical conclusion. It could continue to be seen as a propaganda piece in Pakistan, irrespective of any evidence or legal recourse that is followed. However, it is different for the general world where merit does not have to go though the sieves of religion / "acceptable" extremism / existential enmity.

 

[NALANDA]

I dont think that would be the right strategy.

Do you want 100 Hafiz Saeed's without control in a country which has nuclear weapons ?



Hafiz can never get contril of Nuclear Bombs, it is hyperbole.

 

[Markus]

Hafiz can never get contril of Nuclear Bombs, it is hyperbole.

Do we have the luxury of making that assumption ?

 

[muse]

The degree of persuasiveness here is relative. For Pakistanis. For other world. For India. Not enough objectivity there to achieve a logical conclusion. It could continue to be seen as a propaganda piece in Pakistan, irrespective of any evidence or legal recourse that is followed. However, it is different for the general world where merit does not have to go though the sieves of religion / "acceptable" extremism / existential enmity.

You give up your position too easily, now you are reduced to making the absurd claim, that Indian and global ethics and morality are non-existent and the only appeal necessary is to prejudice. Once again, if the Hafiz is guilty of what is being claimed, then why not prove it, why not achieve victory instead of half hearted attempts at it as if one cannot even dream of the real thing.

India should be seen as an ethical and moral leader, people not just in India but elsewhere would be able to see in her deliberations and public pronouncement these values and the credibility that comes from sober dedication to truth in law, don't you think?

 

[Bang Galore]

US put up money for evidence leading to his conviction - not on his head, so don't resort to BS to further your argument - If India are persuaded that they have such information, certainly they should discuss the matter with their US ally. What could be more fair, transparent and a victory for the Indian justice system.

Proof? What would convince you? Do you believe India has just picked on some random guy & is going after him? You surely don't contest that he created the LeT, do you? You believe the charity worker bit? Pakistan is being shown up every day that it harbours Hafeez Saeed, regardless of what you think he might be useful for or what you think his role is? The Americans didn't put a bounty on his head because they have intense dislike for pakistani social workers, the U.N was not persuaded to put sanctions on him because they thought poorly of his social service works and some time in the near future, an American court will deal with him (btw, your government just told a court in Pakistan that they cannot help Hafeez Saeed in that case-something Mr.Saeed was asking for, because it will prove India's case of collusion between the GoP & Hafeez Saeed. Legal help to Hafiz Saeed will strengthen Indian allegations against Pakistan, admits lawyer - India - DNA), we in India don't need to do much more. Pakistan continues to make the hole deeper & we can watch them dig....for now. The Indian government does not believe that Hafeez Saeed acted independent of the state in the 26/11 attacks, state collusion at some level is believed & was only confirmed when Pakistan behaved in the manner it did with Abu Jundal's extradition to India. Hafeez Saeed is one of the many symptoms, he is not the disease. That lies far deeper & fortunately for us, it seems to have turned in on the host itself. Giving Pakistan an opportunity to get away from its troubles by pointing to an Indian action would be foolish on our part, hence the present contentment to sit back & watch the events unfold in Pakistan.

 

[Salahadin]

ISI can control one Hafeez but not 100 of them..... all trying to be more Islamic than Prophet ( PBUH) himself. Look the result now..

dude watch out dont talk about our prophet in a disgracefull manar this post is reported... for starters we want to follow PBUH footsteps no one can be like him. he is the only one

 

[K-Xeroid]

Oh, I wish. I am not smoking anything, but tobacco.

My point is that both India and Pakistan had used and still use, proxies to safeguard their interests.

It will be destructive if both countries keep going on this option. Mutual dialogue and bi-lateral agreements is the only way forward.

Otherwise both nations will be enemies like England and France were before their wars stopped, who later realized that being in a Union, European Union, make them much more stable and strong.

Bi-lateral agreements b\w both nation depends on Indian stance . We just cannot make decision against our national interest , and their is no surety of how longer any agreement can be sustain b\w both nations . I don't think we both can be compared with French/England animosity as they were not as political nations at then . Today many of your political parties and their politics is totally related with Pakistan , They need this antagonism and unless you don't fix yourself internally , you better don't expect better from others.

 

[OrionHunter]

Firstly, the premise that the US will 'abandon' Afghanistan to the wiles of the Taliban and their supporters, is completely off track. The US of A will not be doing that any time soon. A force of at least three divisions worth of troops will be permanently stationed in Kabul, South and Eastern Afghanistan. That should keep Pakistan and the Haqqani group engaged well into the next decade.

Secondly, Hafiz should stand for elections in Pakistan so that he is forced to display accountability and responsibility. It would be interesting to see how he would then conduct himself instead of just being a rabble rouser.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I dont think that would be the right strategy.

Do you want 100 Hafiz Saeed's without control in a country which has nuclear weapons ?

Hafiz can never get contril of Nuclear Bombs, it is hyperbole.

See everything is hyberbole and unimaginable TILL it actually happens.

Like wise, nobody believed that Taliban would get into heavily guarded Military bases and destroy valuable assets; but it happened at PNS Mehran and at Kamra. Cost: 3 Orions and 1(+part) Erieye. Nobody thought that GHQ and ISI HQs could be attacked. That happened. So its hard to say anything conclusively. The Great Unknown is the degree of Infiltration into the Strategic Establishment. No body has a clue about how deep that may run.