Why Pakistan won't give up Hafiz Saeed

[Capt.Popeye]

You give up your position too easily, now you are reduced to making the absurd claim, that Indian and global ethics and morality are non-existent and the only appeal necessary is to prejudice. Once again, if the Hafiz is guilty of what is being claimed, then why not prove it, why not achieve victory instead of half hearted attempts at it as if one cannot even dream of the real thing.

India should be seen as an ethical and moral leader, people not just in India but elsewhere would be able to see in her deliberations and public pronouncement these values and the credibility that comes from sober dedication to truth in law, don't you think?

@muse; do you really believe that World Statecraft runs only on ethical and moral values carved in stone?
When those things do not work; as in "when push comes to shove" then anything is 'par for the course'.
So generically speaking; soft options--> hard options and so on. Sometimes both are worked in tandem; only the spotlight is kept moving.

 

[ashok321]

Country such as Pakistan accepting 1.5 billion yearly USD aid from USA, and in turn, not complying with USA to arrest Senior Saeed Hafiz, with 10 million dollars bunty on his head is a plain act of hypocrisy on the part of Pakistan, for, not only its USA, but its democratic world body of UNO which has declared him as a terrorist:

The United Nations declared Jama'at-ud-Da'wah a terrorist organization in December 2008 and Hafiz Saeed a terrorist as its leader

Pakistan, which maintains its right to be among the comity of nations as a signatory of UNO (who borrows from IMF-WB) and at the same time refuses to arrest an International terrorist, one who is not absconding but walks tall on the Pakistani streets with Pakistani blessings, this means total betrayal to UNO charter whose signatory Pakistan is and presumably will be for ever.

The hand that feeds you, should never be bitten.....

 

[K-Xeroid]

@muse; do you really believe that World Statecraft runs only on ethical and moral values carved in stone?
When those things do not work; as in "when push comes to shove" then anything is 'par for the course'.
So generically speaking; soft options--> hard options and so on. Sometimes both are worked in tandem; only the spotlight is kept moving.

So do you believe in "Every Action has an Equal and Opposite Reaction" theory ? Hard options always gives bad taste , better to avoid them as much as can.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

So do you believe in "Every Action has an Equal and Opposite Reaction" theory ? Hard options always gives bad taste , better to avoid them as much as can.

No I do not alway believe in that. But as they say "Its Horses for Courses". And if one has already factored in all possible reactions; then its not such a big deal after all. Statecraft considers and uses the options available and usable.

 

[ashok321]

So do you believe in "Every Action has an Equal and Opposite Reaction" theory ? Hard options always gives bad taste , better to avoid them as much as can.

Some times these hard options are thrust upon the nations, owing to their mala fide intentions.

For example, Pakistan signed away on its rights to USA to employ drones upon Pakistan.

Just think why it happened, and who did sign on dotted lines.
Are you with us, or against us?

 

[Gentelman]

well in simple words Hafiz Saeed have supporters here and any solid proof against him is not provided against him...
He have supporters coz of his opinion about Kashmir.....

 

[K-Xeroid]

No I do not alway believe in that. But as they say "Its Horses for Courses". And if one has already factored in all possible reactions; then its not such a big deal after all. Statecraft considers and uses the options available and usable.

Sometimes we actually are choosing consequences instead of options , and Gambling everything for a issue which cannot be proved an issue after all .

 

[KRAIT]

@K-Xeroid Well I can't comment if we are going to discuss only India's stance. After all, bi-lateral means from both sides.

As for Indian political parties, you should rather watch more news.

 

[Sukh Jatt]

then then the rain of nukes will fall in yr country.

Loool
Pakistan is the only country with nukes

 

[Screambowl]

Don't give. Who wants him either? lol. Let him defame Pakistan more and create Madrassa Ideology in Pakistan.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

I believe Saeed will continue to be be a headache for India but not as much as he could be for Pakistan and its elites.

Look at it this way. This is a man who effectively controls what must be one of the largest private armies in the world, who is also simultaneously running a huge political and social empire, who likely has access to and influence with key elites in Pakistan (army, ISI, polity, business, etc) and whose tentacles spread deep and wide into Pakistani society.

You think a man like this will be content to pay a supporting role forever? He's going to make a play for all of Pakistan, with his vision, his worldview and done his way, whether the current elites like it or not. Among the many tigers that Pakistan has by the tail, this one is the most dangerous.

 

[muse]

Proof? What would convince you? Do you believe India has just picked on some random guy & is going after him? You surely don't contest that he created the LeT, do you? You believe the charity worker bit? Pakistan is being shown up every day that it harbours Hafeez Saeed, regardless of what you think he might be useful for or what you think his role is? The Americans didn't put a bounty on his head because they have intense dislike for pakistani social workers, the U.N was not persuaded to put sanctions on him because they thought poorly of his social service works and some time in the near future, an American court will deal with him (btw, your government just told a court in Pakistan that they cannot help Hafeez Saeed in that case-something Mr.Saeed was asking for, because it will prove India's case of collusion between the GoP & Hafeez Saeed. Legal help to Hafiz Saeed will strengthen Indian allegations against Pakistan, admits lawyer - India - DNA), we in India don't need to do much more. Pakistan continues to make the hole deeper & we can watch them dig....for now. The Indian government does not believe that Hafeez Saeed acted independent of the state in the 26/11 attacks, state collusion at some level is believed & was only confirmed when Pakistan behaved in the manner it did with Abu Jundal's extradition to India. Hafeez Saeed is one of the many symptoms, he is not the disease. That lies far deeper & fortunately for us, it seems to have turned in on the host itself. Giving Pakistan an opportunity to get away from its troubles by pointing to an Indian action would be foolish on our part, hence the present contentment to sit back & watch the events unfold in Pakistan.

Righteous indignation - backed by half truths will not make India's case - Only a trail, full legal case will make clear to Indian, Pakistanis and the world that the Hafiz is guilty as charged - short of this, it's just a mockery of the Indian justice system and the growing incredulity of Indian claims -- Please understand I'm all for stopping the Hafiz, so spare me the indignation stuff, it may be more profitable to let the judiciary handle this Hafiz fellow.

 

[muse]

@muse; do you really believe that World Statecraft runs only on ethical and moral values carved in stone?
When those things do not work; as in "when push comes to shove" then anything is 'par for the course'.
So generically speaking; soft options--> hard options and so on. Sometimes both are worked in tandem; only the spotlight is kept moving.

I think you are beginning to understand that we live in a very different world from the one at 9/11 and even Mumbai - and I think it's just not the way to go, so to speak, for people to put so much on the line as it seems they do when they begin speaking of push and shove, and soft and hard options -- these are positions nuclear powers will not find themselves in if sobriety is in force, but of course Indian friends can believe whatever they find persuasive - The world is much bigger than just the US.

 

[funtoosh]

I think you are beginning to understand that we live in a very different world from the one at 9/11 and even Mumbai - and I think it's just not the way to go, so to speak, for people to put so much on the line as it seems they do when they begin speaking of push and shove, and soft and hard options -- these are positions nuclear powers will not find themselves in if sobriety is in force, but of course Indian friends can believe whatever they find persuasive - The world is much bigger than just the US.

what do you think that the paksitanis demand so much proof and even after proof was given do not blieve because in this case they arent obliged too.
next time anyone says something nasty about Modis involvement in the Guj riots please support modi becuase there has been no proof found by any courts.

 

[Bang Galore]

Righteous indignation - backed by half truths will not make India's case - Only a trail, full legal case will make clear to Indian, Pakistanis and the world that the Hafiz is guilty as charged - short of this, it's just a mockery of the Indian justice system and the growing incredulity of Indian claims -- Please understand I'm all for stopping the Hafiz, so spare me the indignation stuff, it may be more profitable to let the judiciary handle this Hafiz fellow.

I'm not much of an indignation fan, it's just that you seem to deliberatelyto understand the peculiar nature of Hafeez Saeed's actions. He does his part from within Pakistan and the state does a good job of both covering up his actions & refuses to seriously investigate him. That is true of all terrorist leaders. Which leader of the Pakistani taliban has been tried & found guilty of his crime before deciding to take him out?

Hafeez Saeed is a Pakistani national. I'm not sure any court in India would be willing to try him in absentia. Pakistan will never hand him over to India, his charity work being very essential and dear to the Pakistani establishment. This will remain as it is unless something more awful & dramatic happens.