Why Pakistan Produces Jihadists

[deepak75]

Pakistan produce jihadist because

Fed up of life, teens try to cross to Pakistan

Srinagar, May 4 -- Six boys between 12 and 13 years were caught just before they were to cross the border to get arms and weapons training in Pakistan as a measure to daunt their parents and teachers. Hailing from village Palhalan in Baramullah district in Kashmir, some 30 km north of Srinagar, the six began their journey to Pakistan on Saturday.

With just Rs 200, the prize money they won in a cricket match, they travelled 30 km to reach Kupwara, where they stayed in a mosque. They wanted to cross the border there.

But the imam (priest) of the mosque became suspicious when one of the boys asked him how far Pakistan was. He told the police that the boys also wanted money because they had exhausted the Rs 200.

He handed them over to the cops at the Kupwara police station. "The teachers would beat us.

We were fed up with life and decided to go to Pakistan. We won't do this again," a boy said when he was handed over to his parents on Tuesday.

The boys became rebellious because of the stress and trauma at school and parental pressure at home. That was when they thought to going to Pakistan to get arms training.

Baramulla Senior Superintendent of Police Shakeel Beigh told Hindustan Times that all that the boys wanted to do was to "skip school and avoid the vagaries of life".

Fed up of life, teens try to cross to Pakistan - Yahoo! India News

The baramulla senior police suprintendant says that all the boys wanted to do is skip skool and avoid vagaries of life.

But the biased BS indian media didnt hesitate to say that they wanted to go to Pakistan for Jihad training...

Thats why Pakistan produce Jihadist i suppose

My friend that is why there is a need for Pakistan to overhaul its approach and stop being a destination for kids to become terrorists.

Kids get wasted everywhere. We also got our share of getting wasted in school. It is the upspoken right of every student to fight the system and get wasted before they finally come to terms with the system and get on with their boring life .

The worrying thing about the above, is that they knew to go to Pakistan to get arms training. This easy motivation needs to be curbed by ceasing the terror training.

But masha allah Imam Sahib. Both our countries need several more of them. The Police Supritendent also shows maturity = Kids get wasted and nothing else. They are not terrorists. Just send them back to school. That is the biggest punishment for them.

P.S: So they also won 200 rupees for playing good cricket. Stupid mutts should focus on that a little bit more. One of them might end being another Yusuf.... who knows. They should be sent back to school immediately.

 

[T-Faz]

Ok, rational thinking is required regarding this story and in my opinion this should be the final nail in the coffin for all brainwashing centers that are present not only in Pakistan but in the muslim world, their financers, their trainers and what not. These people have got sufficient resources that can penetrate any person any where in the world.

This well to do person can go on to do such a thing speaks volumes of the brainwashing techniques used by the terrorists, perhaps it is time to monitor and delink mosques from political centers. Moves to target hardline elements and their ideology is the need for the hour. This Mujahideen 'Jihad' to win against the Soviets has caused more harm in the long term than what a strong USSR still alive today would have done.

What is done is done, unfortunately the ill in our society is still in a very small minority and we know who those groups and people are. Lets target them and eliminate them once and for all.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

The Afghan-Soviet war is long gone and using that as a justification for the current global violence inflicted by many Pakistanis is tantamount to trying to justify a serial murderer's deeds by linking it to the fact that he was physically abused by his father as a kid. Bottom line is that too many jihadists emanate from Pakistan and that nation needs to start reforming its society or else risk assuming the title of a failed state which it is slowly but surely inheriting through the deeds of its people.

 

[T-Faz]

The Afghan-Soviet war is long gone and using that as a justification for the current global violence inflicted by many Pakistanis is tantamount to trying to justify a serial murderer's deeds by linking it to the fact that he was physically abused by his father as a kid. Bottom line is that too many jihadists emanate from Pakistan and that nation needs to start reforming its society or else risk assuming the title of a failed state which it is slowly but surely inheriting through the deeds of its people.

Well you being indian would paint this on all the people of the nation, trust me if many of the 170 million people were of the same mindset, you would not be alive right now. The Afghan-Soviet war is used as a justification becuase this technique to harm Soviets was justified as a means of poor and weak freedom fighters. Now when thet use the same technique against many different nations thay are calssified as terrorists which they were back then too.

Jihadis also eminate from Egypt, Saudi, Somalia, Nigeria and Sudan but the influx of these people through the Afghanistan and tribal areas of Pakistan has become a worldwide problem, they are fighting a global battle and this is why Pakistan is under the spotlight.

I know this is a good moment for people like to you take pot shots and blame the whole nation. Remember the Pakistani Army generals themsleves tried to do a coup against Zia when he was going about his Islamic Jihad and he was killed by the same people. The longer the war continues the more this will occur, the only way forward is to negotiate, delink Islam with politics, close madrassa's, eliminate the terrorist organistions and begin educating and developing minds to stay away from this path.

 

[ambidex]

The Afghan-Soviet war is long gone and using that as a justification for the current global violence inflicted by many Pakistanis is tantamount to trying to justify a serial murderer's deeds by linking it to the fact that he was physically abused by his father as a kid. Bottom line is that too many jihadists emanate from Pakistan and that nation needs to start reforming its society or else risk assuming the title of a failed state which it is slowly but surely inheriting through the deeds of its people.

They don't have guts to challenge those who are real culprits. They can not challenge the system which bluffs them to be the guardian of Islam.Furthermore there is no democracy in Pakistan at grass root level so their convince is not rational to your or mine convince one must understand.

 

[Aslan]

The Afghan-Soviet war is long gone and using that as a justification for the current global violence inflicted by many Pakistanis is tantamount to trying to justify a serial murderer's deeds by linking it to the fact that he was physically abused by his father as a kid. Bottom line is that too many jihadists emanate from Pakistan and that nation needs to start reforming its society or else risk assuming the title of a failed state which it is slowly but surely inheriting through the deeds of its people.

A cheap attempt of a cheap mind. The afghan war ended (although it never did) in February 15, 1989. That was roughly 21 years from today, and then it became a mess which was never tried to be fixed by the parties involved and let for Pakistan to clean with out any support. So stop the crap, we as Pakistanis except that we have issues, but then also these issue are related directly and indirectly to the dirty game that as played in our immediate neighborhood.

 

[Aslan]

They don't have guts to challenge those who are real culprits. They can not challenge the system which bluffs them to be the guardian of Islam.Furthermore there is no democracy in Pakistan at grass root level so their convince is not rational to your or mine convince one must understand.

Do you! Have you ever tried to look into the country that you are so proud off, and seen the issues related to it. What is with you indians when we will come to you for advise and criticism then give it to us. We dont ask you for any support, and in fact your country is one of the destabilizing factors towards Pakistan. But no you dont want to hear that do you. And also Why gave you the right to talk about my country in that way, when you guys dont want to hear any criticism about your yours from us. So either put up or shut up.

 

[ambidex]

Do you! Have you ever tried to look into the country that you are so proud off, and seen the issues related to it. What is with you indians when we will come to you for advise and criticism then give it to us. We dont ask you for any support, and in fact your country is one of the destabilizing factors towards Pakistan. But no you dont want to hear that do you. And also Why gave you the right to talk about my country in that way, when you guys dont want to hear any criticism about your yours from us. So either put up or shut up.

This is not the place to be shut up. If you can rant in all those posts you have made till today then anyone here has one privileged, not to be shut up. You have proved my point about grass root democracy where we do not say anyone to be shut up. I can prove my point with proper references and quotes but you can not.

I want to be more blunt about this whole topic but i have seen discrimination myself in Australia when Dr. Mohd. Haniff was detained without charges and Indians were disgusted. That is why i have right to speak behalf of me and and my associates from different countries including Pakistan to talk about your nation (personal reason). There is another reason but since you have proved that you do not understand the culture of debate so I have no urgency to explain that to you.

As far as India is concerned there is nothing artificial about any single problem India is facing today but not the case with Pakistan. I would like to know your theory how India is destabilizing Pakistan and how it has effected ordinary Pakistanis to be arrested and found guilty outside Pakistan.

As far as asking support from India is concerned again this was a better option if you could have understood the meaning of logistics. Compromising sovereignty and facilitating a non believer(America) temporarily as said by Gen. Musharraf on national TV is what Pakistan is doing, why allergy with India makes you sore is the question of the day. How two same crimes have two different verdicts. How Pakistan has enacted promptly to apprehend NY bombers but has played Hippocratic politics for those concerned with terrorists acts in India makes your all assertions bias chest thumping.

Get up and put up questions/challenges to the system which is not answerable to you for sake of some thing very auspicious but using individuals as cannon fodders to prove it is . I mean ''mian ke juti miyan ke sir''.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The article may be or may not be a “typical Indian drivel” or a “Indian influenced drivel”, but it certainly merits a closer look

Why? The author himself debunks his claim of an 'Islamic identity' being responsible when he points out that other Islamic nations such as Indonesia do not necessarily have as large a problem with terrorism as Pakistan. So obviously a nation's Islamic identity is not the issue here.

That the author chooses to focus on and criticize only Pakistan's Islamic identity, and regurgitates a common Indian canard, betrays his bias.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yeah because all the bad press that Pakistan gets is because of India or Indian influence.

Typical deflection tactic. Instead of talking about the issues, negating all the problems with a convenient scapegoat. Sad really.

I was referring to a specific set of arguments made by the author, which is typical Indian drivel, and has been repeated by Indian commentators umpteen times.

I did commend the author for 'talking about the issues' where he referenced the dynamics from the Afghan Jihad being an explanation.

Your post on the other hand offers nothing, critical or supportive, in terms of 'discussing the issues'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The most difficult part of finding a solution is understanding the problem = Albert Einstien

There are relevant reflections on identification of the problem in the WSJ article. Why be so closed to look at the problem and understand it.

Whatever you may call the article but the relevant fact is that Pakistan has not been able to find a solution. Probably because they do not want to understand the problem by calling it "Indian influnced drivel"?

Where the author has attempted to identify the problem, the dynamics and repercussions of the Afghan Jihad, I have agreed with him. Where his argument is flawed, I have disagreed.

Lets not forget that there are thousands, of Muslims from Turkey, Arab States, Germany and other European countries, Central Asia etc. fighting in the FATA, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen. Many of these born and brought up in those countries.

So when it comes to 'exporting terrorism', there are far fewer Pakistanis going to other nations, even before the Tribal belt went up in flames, than those from other countries.

To explore the Pakistani connection further, the major linkage here is FATA and the various groups that have set up shop there. That links directly back to the Afghan Jihad and the repercussions from it, and not to Pakistan's 'Islamic Identity'.

The Islamic identity canard is just that, drivel propagated by Indians to denigrate Pakistan's existence and identity with. Delve into into the argument a little and there is little to hold it up.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How Pakistan has enacted promptly to apprehend NY bombers but has played Hippocratic politics for those concerned with terrorists acts in India makes your all assertions bias chest thumping.

You ignore the fact that there is extensive cooperation between the CIA and ISI currently, and that the Baradar arrest is attributed by some to this cooperation.

If the reports of the arrests are true, and if the Pakistani authorities did not have existing knowledge of the plot that they were already sharing with the US, then the arrests in Pakistan could have only happened because of cooperation with US intelligence. Otherwise Pakistani authorities would not have really known who to arrest.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Well you being indian would paint this on all the people of the nation, trust me if many of the 170 million people were of the same mindset, you would not be alive right now. The Afghan-Soviet war is used as a justification becuase this technique to harm Soviets was justified as a means of poor and weak freedom fighters. Now when thet use the same technique against many different nations thay are calssified as terrorists which they were back then too.

Jihadis also eminate from Egypt, Saudi, Somalia, Nigeria and Sudan but the influx of these people through the Afghanistan and tribal areas of Pakistan has become a worldwide problem, they are fighting a global battle and this is why Pakistan is under the spotlight.

I know this is a good moment for people like to you take pot shots and blame the whole nation. Remember the Pakistani Army generals themsleves tried to do a coup against Zia when he was going about his Islamic Jihad and he was killed by the same people. The longer the war continues the more this will occur, the only way forward is to negotiate, delink Islam with politics, close madrassa's, eliminate the terrorist organistions and begin educating and developing minds to stay away from this path.

Pls note we Indians did not support the mujahiddin back then too, secondly the mandate for the mujahiddin was guerrilla war, but a war. What these people are doing is not war but calculated murder of civilians.

You should also understand why we are so bitter about pakistan's role in this terrorism mess. the mumbai attacks are fresh, its the same guys - LET but under a different name plate called JUD at muridke who did it. it was supposedly banned by GOP but no real action was taken against saeed, instead allowed to operate under a new name in the same HQ. hence we feel GOP looks for excuses for NOT taking actions against terrorists. just our POV.

Do u think the pak govt did enough to stop LET AKA JUD?

 

[notsuperstitious]

Why? The author himself debunks his claim of an 'Islamic identity' being responsible when he points out that other Islamic nations such as Indonesia do not necessarily have as large a problem with terrorism as Pakistan. So obviously a nation's Islamic identity is not the issue here.

That the author chooses to focus on and criticize only Pakistan's Islamic identity, and regurgitates a common Indian canard, betrays his bias.

Indonesia and turkey are not created on Islamic identity. Infact Pakistan remains the only country so created. So the point he makes is technically worth discussing.

 

[deepak75]

Where the author has attempted to identify the problem, the dynamics and repercussions of the Afghan Jihad, I have agreed with him. Where his argument is flawed, I have disagreed.

Lets not forget that there are thousands, of Muslims from Turkey, Arab States, Germany and other European countries, Central Asia etc. fighting in the FATA, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen. Many of these born and brought up in those countries.

So when it comes to 'exporting terrorism', there are far fewer Pakistanis going to other nations, even before the Tribal belt went up in flames, than those from other countries.

To explore the Pakistani connection further, the major linkage here is FATA and the various groups that have set up shop there. That links directly back to the Afghan Jihad and the repercussions from it, and not to Pakistan's 'Islamic Identity'.

The Islamic identity canard is just that, drivel propagated by Indians to denigrate Pakistan's existence and identity with. Delve into into the argument a little and there is little to hold it up.

It is self contradictory when on one hand you say that Pakistan made a mis-step on the Afgan Jihad for which Islamic identity was waived freely to attract the imports from various countries that you listed. Money and resources from Arab countries were garnered in the name of Islam. On the other hand you say that the current prolems infesting the Pakistani society have nothing to do with Islamic identity !!

The Islamic identity (canard?) is used more by Taliban to push their agenda then by India or any other state against Pakistan. So to mellow down the version of Islamic identity of the Pakistani state will only help Pakistan more than anyone else.

Without a religion there is no value system for an individual, whichever religion it may be. However, in case of Pakistan the religion was hyped by vested interests to hijack the national policies and just to retain positions of power. That is why the polity of Pakistan is now propagating that the version of Islam that the Taliban embraces is false and wrong.

So if there have to be corrective steps taken in that regard then Sadanand is right that there has to be relook of the education being imparted in schools or other educational institutions. Besides the author also mentioned several occurences which are only consistent with the version of Islam that was propagated by the state and the generals and which finally led to this deeply entrenched extremism in the country.

I will be repeating myself several times over if I write more. During the course of some discussions with other friends on this thread we shared more thoughts. Please glance at them so we could pick up each other perspectives more clearly.