Why Pakistan Produces Jihadists

[Aslan]

@ deepak There seems to be a huge disconnect between the thinking of the expat Pakistanis versus the local ones. It is the local ones that contribute funds to the Jehadi organizations to keep the machinery running.

I wonder how much of that is based on facts, or it is just the common bs that you are throwing out. You mean to tell us here that a common Pakistani who is living in hell like conditions every day due to the f***ers that are our politicians, who could barely make the ends meet. And who him self is at the forefront of the threat that is terroris, who dont know if he will be shreaded to pieces or may be get home in one. Is funding these bastards.

Maliha Lodhi who is now "sad" was actually a stuanch advocate of the "terror as a part of foreign policy" against India. So that is a surprise, or may be it is because that it is now a book launch and hence the impact is personal.

Link! I see that you hate her being an Indian, as when she was the ambassador of Pakistan in US and UK, she was very active for the well being of Pakistan so I understand the frustration and propaganda towards her.

Evidently there is a reference to the ovehaul of the education system to undo the vices of earlier education to Children. This is exactly what is mentioned in the original WSJ article but then our friends on the forum want to dismiss that as "Indian drivel".

Why dont you guys fix your own house and get that in order we will fix ours. Its easy to give free and cheap advise, we are suffering but at the same time we are taking action against it too. And we will InshAllah come out of it in one piece. So keep your fake sympathies and advises to your self, and as many here pointed out that look at the bs in the article as well rather then what suits you.

Clearly a huge disconnect.

Surely it is so why dont u guys try to fix it.

 

[Aslan]

Probably that is to highlight that the genesis of a state based on a theology is unwarranted and dangerous. It is probably something that can throw light on how to correct the same by making Pakistan a more pluralistic society that harbours good for all?

so rather then twisting the words here and there and trying to make it sound like something else why dont u clearly state that you have a problem with Pakistan being an Islamic country. But it is so live with it. Your secular country that is so proud of it has issues of its own. So advising one is simple but actions are hard, as I said already worry about your own house and we will fix ours.

 

[deepak75]

How conveniently you guys forget the role the Americans themselves played in nurturing the Nazis that we call the talibans. This issue is not as simple as Black and White as you guys are trying to put it. tell me apart from the 9-11 attack which other country had so severely been hit and damaged by terrorism then Pakistan its self. There is nothing wrong in the teachings any where. These people dont represent any thing. If any thing they have managed to kill more Muslims then they have killed otherwise. People are taking steps to tackle the issue, but to put the blame completely on Pakistan is nonsensical at best. This guy was living in the US for a long time. So if anything the american authorities have to look with in their own country and find the culprits.

You are right, we should not forget the brinksmanship of U.S in the Soviet war. But the fact that Pakistan found convergence in U.S goals at that time - where were at best opportunistic - sends alarming signals about the objectives and thinking process of the rulership at that time. A bad scenario was that it was Gen. Zia at helm so being a militar man he had a foresight the distance of a guns's barrel. But what followed during Benazir's regime and the continual support to Taliban and the terror factories and ensuing continuity in other civil adminstations is alarming. The thought that Soviet's Afganistan could be repeated was ingrained in the thought process all the time in Islamabad. That is where the miscalculations happended. There was no U.S to make things successful and alone Pakistan could do nothing. However in the process of this quest the shot in the foot is now evident and bleeding. The sorry part is that the father had to run away from his house for the deeds of the son. I am sure that it can be the most humiliating thing that a son could do to his father even in your country. I just hope that the honorable ex PAF officer was not involved in this tragedy that was planned and almost executed by his son.

 

[deepak75]

@ deepak There seems to be a huge disconnect between the thinking of the expat Pakistanis versus the local ones. It is the local ones that contribute funds to the Jehadi organizations to keep the machinery running.

I wonder how much of that is based on facts, or it is just the common bs that you are throwing out. You mean to tell us here that a common Pakistani who is living in hell like conditions every day due to the f***ers that are our politicians, who could barely make the ends meet. And who him self is at the forefront of the threat that is terroris, who dont know if he will be shreaded to pieces or may be get home in one. Is funding these bastards.

Maliha Lodhi who is now "sad" was actually a stuanch advocate of the "terror as a part of foreign policy" against India. So that is a surprise, or may be it is because that it is now a book launch and hence the impact is personal.

Link! I see that you hate her being an Indian, as when she was the ambassador of Pakistan in US and UK, she was very active for the well being of Pakistan so I understand the frustration and propaganda towards her.

Evidently there is a reference to the ovehaul of the education system to undo the vices of earlier education to Children. This is exactly what is mentioned in the original WSJ article but then our friends on the forum want to dismiss that as "Indian drivel".

Why dont you guys fix your own house and get that in order we will fix ours. Its easy to give free and cheap advise, we are suffering but at the same time we are taking action against it too. And we will InshAllah come out of it in one piece. So keep your fake sympathies and advises to your self, and as many here pointed out that look at the bs in the article as well rather then what suits you.

Clearly a huge disconnect.

Surely it is so why dont u guys try to fix it.

Sir, I will just look up the links and post them over here. There has been huge information on the net w.r.t the funding of terrorism and the donations to JUD, LET etc. Please give me only a short while. But I suspect that you already know it.

Re Ms. Maliha Lodhi's thought process, that too is in public domain. I look forward to provide you references on that too shortly.

Re your comment about the education system of India, I agree with you that we have to go miles before we can preach. But that was not the intention. You see, it is not the Indian education system that is churning out terrorists very efficiently and consistently. It has been your education system. That is why it needs to be looked in to. Like I quoted AE earlier, biggest contributor to solving a problem......

 

[deepak75]

so rather then twisting the words here and there and trying to make it sound like something else why dont u clearly state that you have a problem with Pakistan being an Islamic country. But it is so live with it. Your secular country that is so proud of it has issues of its own. So advising one is simple but actions are hard, as I said already worry about your own house and we will fix ours.

Sir, the problem is not limited to us. It is now plaguing the whole world and most of all your own nation. India has miles to travel before there is social equality and universal prosperity but the thing is that India can afford to move ahead at the best pace possible and let its society evolve. That is becuase the fundamentals are broadly correct so fine tuning of the structure can be carried out without worrying about the collapse of the whole social values.

That is not currently the case with your society parts of which are now equipped and are determined to internally cannibalize, hence my comment. I regret that my thoughts are now in sync with yours. But nonetheless, my little bit.

 

[Aslan]

You are right, we should not forget the brinksmanship of U.S in the Soviet war. But the fact that Pakistan found convergence in U.S goals at that time - where were at best opportunistic - sends alarming signals about the objectives and thinking process of the rulership at that time. A bad scenario was that it was Gen. Zia at helm so being a militar man he had a foresight the distance of a guns's barrel. But what followed during Benazir's regime and the continual support to Taliban and the terror factories and ensuing continuity in other civil adminstations is alarming. The thought that Soviet's Afganistan could be repeated was ingrained in the thought process all the time in Islamabad. That is where the miscalculations happended. There was no U.S to make things successful and alone Pakistan could do nothing. However in the process of this quest the shot in the foot is now evident and bleeding. The sorry part is that the father had to run away from his house for the deeds of the son. I am sure that it can be the most humiliating thing that a son could do to his father even in your country. I just hope that the honorable ex PAF officer was not involved in this tragedy that was planned and almost executed by his son.

Well history is always looked at from 2 different angles one is yours and the other is mine. When I agree with you that yes Pakistan has suffered due to its policies, but that is not the complete picture. Rather only one angle of the story the other is there were reasons, and those were the reasons beyond our control. The americans left at their convenience, and we were forced to pick sides. Not a healthy choice but one that we had to make because of the neighborhood that we live in. And agree or not your country had a lot to do with this choice that we had to make. But it is a thing of the past and beyond repair. The thing today is that yes when we are suffering from our mistakes in the past we also at the same time have different elements around us who are also fueling the fire. And then again the same scenario comes into play we live in a dirty neighborhood.
Now as far as the father is concerned, yes its a sorry situation. But he is a respected man in Pakistan, and I am sure that he knows the repercussions of running away. What I believe is that he shifted to another place to avoid the press but still is under the watchful eye of the PA and the interior ministry, and all the other related authorities.

 

[Aslan]

Sir, I will just look up the links and post them over here. There has been huge information on the net w.r.t the funding of terrorism and the donations to JUD, LET etc. Please give me only a short while. But I suspect that you already know it.

Re Ms. Maliha Lodhi's thought process, that too is in public domain. I look forward to provide you references on that too shortly.

Re your comment about the education system of India, I agree with you that we have to go miles before we can preach. But that was not the intention. You see, it is not the Indian education system that is churning out terrorists very efficiently and consistently. It has been your education system. That is why it needs to be looked in to. Like I quoted AE earlier, biggest contributor to solving a problem......

Thanks And I will wait for the links, I know that there are elements with in Pakistan who support these pigs. But they are very few, and to say that the common man is the drive behind these guys is false.

 

[Aslan]

@ OPMISHRA


Due watch your mouth.

 

[Aslan]

Sir, the problem is not limited to us. It is now plaguing the whole world and most of all your own nation. India has miles to travel before there is social equality and universal prosperity but the thing is that India can afford to move ahead at the best pace possible and let its society evolve. That is becuase the fundamentals are broadly correct so fine tuning of the structure can be carried out without worrying about the collapse of the whole social values.

That is not currently the case with your society parts of which are now equipped and are determined to internally cannibalize, hence my comment. I regret that my thoughts are now in sync with yours. But nonetheless, my little bit.

Depak the problem is not with the religion or its followers or that Pakistan is an Islamic country and all. The problem is these few ignorant fools who take the teachings of Islam and twist them to their own benefit. I guarantee you that all these so call defenders of Islam cant even recite the Quran properly, dont even understand what Islam is and are following the fasadi mulas who can be bought and discarded for a few dollars.

 

[WAQAS119]

I am not posting this video here to flame this thread but this is an important point to ponder..

 

[deepak75]

Depak the problem is not with the religion or its followers or that Pakistan is an Islamic country and all. The problem is these few ignorant fools who take the teachings of Islam and twist them to their own benefit. I guarantee you that all these so call defenders of Islam cant even recite the Quran properly, dont even understand what Islam is and are following the fasadi mulas who can be bought and discarded for a few dollars.

And I agree with you Sir. Majority of any population cannot be in favour of such heinous practices and total non-tolerance of others. That is why I was commenting on the articles content relevant to the education system. There is a strong need to overhaul it and ensure that such fickle minded individuals who are clearly in a minority cannot ride on a state institution while pursuing their selfish and horrendous agendas. Terror like everything else is a business with individuals profiting from it. The only need is to ensure that these profiteers from death of innocent are not allowed to ride in to state institutions like education and make easy accomplishment of their goals. Encouragement of pluralistic values will by itself become a starting point for the ideological defeat of these terrorists.

 

[deepak75]

Well history is always looked at from 2 different angles one is yours and the other is mine. When I agree with you that yes Pakistan has suffered due to its policies, but that is not the complete picture. Rather only one angle of the story the other is there were reasons, and those were the reasons beyond our control. The americans left at their convenience, and we were forced to pick sides. Not a healthy choice but one that we had to make because of the neighborhood that we live in. And agree or not your country had a lot to do with this choice that we had to make. But it is a thing of the past and beyond repair. The thing today is that yes when we are suffering from our mistakes in the past we also at the same time have different elements around us who are also fueling the fire. And then again the same scenario comes into play we live in a dirty neighborhood.
Now as far as the father is concerned, yes its a sorry situation. But he is a respected man in Pakistan, and I am sure that he knows the repercussions of running away. What I believe is that he shifted to another place to avoid the press but still is under the watchful eye of the PA and the interior ministry, and all the other related authorities.

I agree Khalid. We have a complexily intertwined history. Both of us. The urgency to completely break it apart is causing what we are suffering today. Both of us.

Both of our nations emerged from one is a fact and any attempt to create any other history is dangerous. Famously "one can never arrive at where one wants if one forgets where they come from".

We were twins so out thinking should have been allowed to evolve step by step to create the uniqueness for us. But there were veste interests which for individual glorification tried to do this in a "jhatka" manner. I am sure you would know what I am referring to. This "jhatka" approach could not suceed unless extremist ideology was resorted to. And that is exactlyl what happened.

But even now things are not over the hill. We can achieve peace by allowing tolerance of each others needs and positions and achieve our individual objectives in a regional context via mutual acceptance. That goes to all matters of contention. If we see the ROI on all the efforts, India has bled and Pakistan in the process of bleeding India is suffering dangerously.

The whole point is that if we see the real scenario even today then both of us will not have to discuss this position in retrospect a few years later as another missed opportunity and mistake.

 

[JonAsad]

Pakistan produce jihadist because

Fed up of life, teens try to cross to Pakistan

Srinagar, May 4 -- Six boys between 12 and 13 years were caught just before they were to cross the border to get arms and weapons training in Pakistan as a measure to daunt their parents and teachers. Hailing from village Palhalan in Baramullah district in Kashmir, some 30 km north of Srinagar, the six began their journey to Pakistan on Saturday.

With just Rs 200, the prize money they won in a cricket match, they travelled 30 km to reach Kupwara, where they stayed in a mosque. They wanted to cross the border there.

But the imam (priest) of the mosque became suspicious when one of the boys asked him how far Pakistan was. He told the police that the boys also wanted money because they had exhausted the Rs 200.

He handed them over to the cops at the Kupwara police station. "The teachers would beat us.

We were fed up with life and decided to go to Pakistan. We won't do this again," a boy said when he was handed over to his parents on Tuesday.

The boys became rebellious because of the stress and trauma at school and parental pressure at home. That was when they thought to going to Pakistan to get arms training.

Baramulla Senior Superintendent of Police Shakeel Beigh told Hindustan Times that all that the boys wanted to do was to "skip school and avoid the vagaries of life".

Fed up of life, teens try to cross to Pakistan - Yahoo! India News

The baramulla senior police suprintendant says that all the boys wanted to do is skip skool and avoid vagaries of life.

But the biased BS indian media didnt hesitate to say that they wanted to go to Pakistan for Jihad training...

Thats why Pakistan produce Jihadist i suppose

 

[Aslan]

And I agree with you Sir. Majority of any population cannot be in favour of such heinous practices and total non-tolerance of others. That is why I was commenting on the articles content relevant to the education system. There is a strong need to overhaul it and ensure that such fickle minded individuals who are clearly in a minority cannot ride on a state institution while pursuing their selfish and horrendous agendas. Terror like everything else is a business with individuals profiting from it. The only need is to ensure that these profiteers from death of innocent are not allowed to ride in to state institutions like education and make easy accomplishment of their goals. Encouragement of pluralistic values will by itself become a starting point for the ideological defeat of these terrorists.

Well lets amuse that by Pluralistic values you mean a society where religion and state dont blend in together. And by that Pakistan is not a pluralist society, that assumption would be wrong. In order to be able to define the above one has to understand what the basic teachings related to it are. If we look at the state and religion in Pakistan, and if you would understand what Islam is, as a religion Islam given all the fundamental rights to all the people of different religions living with in its borders. The problem is not the religion but the implementation. In a country in fact in all of south Asia its an issue, lets take an example of India for instance even though it is a pluralist society still they have discrimination based on religion. That dont mean that the rules are bad, but the implementation is done as per the individuals thinking. Many a times people say that the religion is the core of the issue and all one should care of is the humanity. But I ask what is humanity, who defines that what it is?
Why do people fail to realize that it is not the religion but the people who them selves are to be blamed for the wrong doings. The problem with Pakistan is as I said one is the implementation. And the second issue is that what ever is implemented is implemented according to the individuals thinking. That is what has to be changed, people have to think better. The madrassas where as are the cheapest form of education for many, are being run by nut cases. The oversight is missing. And that is where Pakistani society is suffering. And that is what needs to be changed.

 

[deepak75]

Well lets amuse that by Pluralistic values you mean a society where religion and state dont blend in together. And by that Pakistan is not a pluralist society, that assumption would be wrong. In order to be able to define the above one has to understand what the basic teachings related to it are. If we look at the state and religion in Pakistan, and if you would understand what Islam is, as a religion Islam given all the fundamental rights to all the people of different religions living with in its borders. The problem is not the religion but the implementation. In a country in fact in all of south Asia its an issue, lets take an example of India for instance even though it is a pluralist society still they have discrimination based on religion. That dont mean that the rules are bad, but the implementation is done as per the individuals thinking. Many a times people say that the religion is the core of the issue and all one should care of is the humanity. But I ask what is humanity, who defines that what it is?
Why do people fail to realize that it is not the religion but the people who them selves are to be blamed for the wrong doings. The problem with Pakistan is as I said one is the implementation. And the second issue is that what ever is implemented is implemented according to the individuals thinking. That is what has to be changed, people have to think better. The madrassas where as are the cheapest form of education for many, are being run by nut cases. The oversight is missing. And that is where Pakistani society is suffering. And that is what needs to be changed.

I agree Khalid. The original intent of the system is not being executed and hence the room for individuals to hijack state institutions for their own agendas. Hence there is a need to overhaul it to ensure that such entities are weeded out. A revision of what we teach the kids at the schools while emphasizing more on social values and tolerance and only the needful on religion, is necessary. That will still keep Pakistan an Islamic state while ensuring that the extremism is weeded out. I am not again the madrasas as systems of education. In our poor countries it is a good system. They feed the kids and hence the parents get the motivation to send them for some basic education. The need is to regulate these and convert the madrasas from purely Islamic schools to social schools which teach Islam. Christian missionaries are a good example. A student of any religion can follow their own faith while still getting quality education. In India, Madrasas are funded by the government. These are providing excellent basic education for our bretherens who cannot afford to send their kids to regular schools. Parents of all religions send their kids there. The government together with Islamic bodies sets parameters for the teachers evaluation and recruitment.

All in all the system is fine. Just that content and the approach needs to be changed. There have to be more voices of tolerance.