Why Pakistan MUST consider Afghan civilians as its own

[hussain0216]

Hate afghans dont want anything to do with them

Kick them out

Close the border

Let them go through chabahar

 

[CriticalThought]

Calm down, I was trying to reduce El Sidd's comment but didn't realise I cropped his name out. And I went to Afghanistan through Peshawar which many people do, without the need of any visa or stamp. Not that it matters because I don't have to proof the personal experience to anyone. Ciao to you too.


Taliban country? Not really. I went through KPK, my cousin and childhood friend got married to someone from Salang and we were invited to Kabul after the wedding to get to know the extended family better and for another ceremony according to their customs. Having local person with you at all times made it safe enough for us to explore certain areas.

And therein lies the problem. You have only had a selected exposure to Afghanistan and its people.

 

[CriticalThought]

Kabul and Jalalabad provinces combined host 6 million people out of 29 million. That's not selected. A country's economy is run by their city and mainly capital, not illiterate or tribal areas. Even then I've had more exposure than many who've never been there in first place

A controled exposure is worse than no exposure. The economy is being run on drugs and foreign aid. And you certainly didn't meet 6 million people.

 

[RescueRanger]

Even then I've had more exposure than many who've never been there in first place

You assume people on PDF have not been to Afghanistan! sadqe jaon!

 

[Ray-of-Hope]

A controled exposure is worse than no exposure. The economy is being run on drugs and foreign aid. And you certainly didn't meet 6 million people.

Nor did you meet 29 million, brother. That's the point
If you're in a specific country you always get a better perception of the people than if you rely on sources or those abroad who've lost touch with their heritage. Drugs and foreign aid might be main economic advantage right now but those benefit those in power not the ordinary people. education and social enhancement exists too where countries will be dependent on in the long run. And those exist in cities.

You assume people on PDF have not been to Afghanistan! sadqe jaon!

Your assumptions regarding my assumptions are SO wrong and not even the point I was making

 

[The Eagle]

Nor did you meet 29 million, brother. That's the point
If you're in a specific country you always get a better perception of the people than if you rely on sources or those abroad who've lost touch with their heritage. Drugs and foreign aid might be main economic advantage right now but those benefit those in power not the ordinary people. education and social enhancement exists too where countries will be dependent on in the long run. And those exist in cities.


Your assumptions regarding my assumptions are SO wrong and not even the point I was making

What are you vouching for then?

 

[RescueRanger]

What are you vouching for then?

Sir please can you do the needful here!

 

[Ray-of-Hope]

What are you vouching for then?

In terms of what?

1- Politically? In all honesty? I'm all up for fencing the border with very strict security control at each gate. Not because I believe this will end internal problems in both countries, or because I don't believe in friendly ties, or because I value human life on side more than the other, etc etc. But because this will stop political entities blaming their respective neighbour for everything, because they'll have no excuse to allow foreign trouble to smuggle itself in first place. General public will also understand internal problems better. They'll blame and better themselves where necessary.
Now if the Afghan government is opposing this or their creators (USA, UN, etc) then that shouldn't be Pakistan's problem IF this truly would resolve massive problems in Pakistan. Pakistan has the power to protect and seal its border, and if it feels they should then they should. End of.

2- In terms of refugee crisis? The thought of having specific population as refugees for 40 years itself is crazy. As long as those refugees born and studying in Pakistan have got a clean record and don't rely on public funds, then I don't see why they can't be granted Pakistani citizenship. As for those with criminal backgrounds they either get jailed, or deported to country of origin or nationality. And those who don't fit any of these listings need to be discussed with UN directly. I don't necessarily believe in throwing away people we don't need, I believe in keeping people who don't harm the society financially and socially.

3- In terms of Afghanistan internal problems? Then that's not my place to speak of. The people in charge there know better what to do, so I can't vouch for anything other than both the government and Taliban are seen as a joke by local people.

4- And if you're asking about what I'm vouching for in terms my personal experience? Nothing. I just responded to one member who claimed that Taliban are a respected bunch by majority of people, which isn't what I've experienced anywhere.

 

[The Eagle]

In all honesty? I'm all up for fencing the border with very strict security control at each gate. Not because I believe this will end internal problems in both countries, or because I don't believe in friendly ties, or because I value human life on side more than the other, etc etc. But because this will stop political entities blaming their respective neighbour for everything, because they'll have no excuse to allow foreign trouble to smuggle itself in first place. General public will also understand internal problems better. They'll blame and better themselves where necessary.
Now if the Afghan government is opposing this or their creators (USA, UN, etc) then that shouldn't be Pakistan's problem IF this truly would resolve massive problems in Pakistan. Pakistan has the power to protect and seal its border, and if it feels they should then they should. End of.

As for Afghan refugee crisis, then the thought of having specific population as refugees for 40 years itself is crazy. As long as those refugees born and studying in Pakistan have got a clean record and don't rely on public funds, then I don't see why they can't be granted Pakistani citizenship. As for those with criminal backgrounds they either get jailed, or deported to country of origin or nationality. And those who don't fit any of these listings need to be discussed with UN directly. I don't necessarily believe in throwing away people we don't need, I believe in keeping people who don't harm the society financially and socially.

And if you're asking about what I'm vouching for in terms my personal experience? Nothing. I just responded to one member who claimed that Taliban are a respected bunch by majority of people, which isn't what I've experienced anywhere. Unless I am missing the point of your question altogether?

My question was based upon your opinion about the subject. Personal experiences varies person to person and an individual cannot represent the whole situation as per his/her own experience.

Speaking of granting them Pakistani Citizenship, there are numbers of ex-Afghans now holding Pakistani Passport and residing abroad in different countries from US, Europe to Middle East. We have also experienced that number of the same passport holders actually being involved in anti-state activities within respective country while working of Afghanistan Puppet Regime Agenda. There are several views and ground realities to be considered while addressing a situation. Pakistan has own laws for granting citizenship hence, appropriate measures are taken into consideration and implemented according to rules and law of the land. Mere demand or opinion does not matter as compare to national security. We have bunch of resident evils that still working of loy shoy Afghanistan and against sovereignty of Pakistan. The same brigade is involved in creating divide within Pakistan by so-called demands and worsening the situation for security of the country. We do filter such puppets and foreign paid agents as well as hunting NDS pawns that cannot be granted any citizenship at all.

Housing them for 40 years, was based upon the brotherly approach but there are few snakes among them refugees that bites the same hand which feeds them hence, our love is only for loyal Afghans that are firstly loyal to their own country and then Pakistan too. On other hand, there are people being inspired by ideology of northern alliance and drug lords of Afghanistan that were only good to have a shelter in Pakistan but due to their involvement in criminal activities, we cannot bear them anymore not on the risk against our security.

No one wants every Afghan out of the country immediately but as described above, firstly anti-Pakistan elements have to leave and the reason is obvious as well as plausible and explained well.

 

[Ray-of-Hope]

My question was based upon your opinion about the subject. Personal experiences varies person to person and an individual cannot represent the whole situation as per his/her own experience.

Speaking of granting them Pakistani Citizenship, there are numbers of ex-Afghans now holding Pakistani Passport and residing abroad in different countries from US, Europe to Middle East. We have also experienced that number of the same passport holders actually being involved in anti-state activities within respective country while working of Afghanistan Puppet Regime Agenda. There are several views and ground realities to be considered while addressing a situation. Pakistan has own laws for granting citizenship hence, appropriate measures are taken into consideration and implemented according to rules and law of the land. Mere demand or opinion does not matter as compare to national security. We have bunch of resident evils that still working of loy shoy Afghanistan and against sovereignty of Pakistan. The same brigade is involved in creating divide within Pakistan by so-called demands and worsening the situation for security of the country. We do filter such puppets and foreign paid agents as well as hunting NDS pawns that cannot be granted any citizenship at all.

Housing them for 40 years, was based upon the brotherly approach but there are few snakes among them refugees that bites the same hand which feeds them hence, our love is only for loyal Afghans that are firstly loyal to their own country and then Pakistan too. On other hand, there are people being inspired by ideology of northern alliance and drug lords of Afghanistan that were only good to have a shelter in Pakistan but due to their involvement in criminal activities, we cannot bear them anymore not on the risk against our security.

No one wants every Afghan out of the country immediately but as described above, firstly anti-Pakistan elements have to leave and the reason is obvious as well as plausible and explained well.

I don't think there's anything to be discussed here because I'm not in disagreement with you at all, nor did my previous comments state otherwise. I can't imagine someone being born and bred in Pakistan obtains a Pakistani nationality just so they can go abroad and defame Pakistan on international level, but there are plenty of illegal activities done by Pakistanis here in UK as well. And they, their parents and grandparents have Pakistani origin.
Hence why I stated background check is very important and if need be fencing of the border, which I have been in favour of ever since it was brought up in discussions.

The personal experience I was speaking about what I experienced whilst in Afghanistan and their perception about certain things, not about what should or shouldn't be done to Afghans in Pakistan.

 

[The Eagle]

I don't think there's anything to be discussed here because I'm not in disagreement with you at all, nor did my previous comments state otherwise. I can't imagine someone being born and bred in Pakistan obtains a Pakistani nationality just so they can go abroad and defame Pakistan on international level, but there are plenty of illegal activities done by Pakistanis here in UK as well. And they, their parents and grandparents have Pakistani origin.
Hence why I stated background check is very important and if need be fencing of the border, which I have been in favour of ever since it was brought up in discussions.

Second generation born in Pakistan to an Afghan Family, not everyone but few, are still taught about anti-Pakistan ideology. Therefore, as I said, there is a lot more to keep in view while looking at situation. This is the same reason that every Afghan cannot be considered as our own. The subject is only limited to Afghans having Pakistani Passport while involved in crimes not the Pakistanis. You cannot imagine but that is a reality and on record and for the reference you can search about few in KSA or UAE I think where the then Pakistan Internal Minister Ch. Nisar clarified everything that how those culprits traveled on Pakistani Passport but were Afghans.

 

[Ray-of-Hope]

Second generation born in Pakistan to an Afghan Family, not everyone but few, are still taught about anti-Pakistan ideology. Therefore, as I said, there is a lot more to keep in view while looking at situation. This is the same reason that every Afghan cannot be considered as our own. The subject is only limited to Afghans having Pakistani Passport while involved in crimes not the Pakistanis. You cannot imagine but that is a reality and on record and for the reference you can search about few in KSA or UAE I think where the then Pakistan Internal Minister Ch. Nisar clarified everything that how those culprits traveled on Pakistani Passport but were Afghans.

I didn't say I don't believe immigrants could commit crimes after obtaining Pakistani nationalities, but rather that I don't see them obtaining nationality just so they could defame Pakistan. Especially considering a criminal-mind will commit a crime regardless of the nationality tag he carries.
I'll surely read up on the examples you've given. Other than that we don't seem to be on different pages.

 

[The Eagle]

I didn't say I don't believe immigrants could commit crimes after obtaining Pakistani nationalities, but rather that I don't see them obtaining nationality just so they could defame Pakistan. Especially considering a criminal-mind will commit a crime regardless of the nationality tag he carries.
I'll surely read up on the examples you've given. Other than that we don't seem to be on different pages.

Still, I did not mean as they obtains nationality specifically to do so but you have a lot to read, dig or search for related subjects available in public domain that how an enemy can damage or harm you by any mean including proxy war or defame under different activities.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

ظفر آدمی نہ جانیئے گا اسے، ہو وہ کتنہ ہی صاحب فہم و ذکا
جسے عیش میں یاد خدا نہ رہا، جسے طیش میں خوف خدا نہ رہا

Transalation:
Zafar, don't consider him a man, no matter how erudite and learned
Who forgets God in luxury, who fears not God in temper

Comprehension of Hadith of Holy Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi Wasallm
The stronger man isn't the one who can submit another. The stronger man is the one who can control his temper.

The recent rocketing of Afghan territory by Pakistani forces is deeply disconcerting. Such acts establish Pakistan as a bully and hegemon in the minds of ordinary Afghans, who are already down-trodden and pummelled from all sides. And it provides the enemies of Pakistan the perfect opportunity to come in and proclaim: we are the best friends of Afghans, we can make this stop.

Having seen many online posts, I can surmise there is a widespread belief amongst Pakistanis that we can somehow dissociate ourselves from the Afghan mess. That, the border can be somehow tamed and a line drawn to keep the unwanted on the other side. This belies the ground truth and the reality of the situation. The topography of the Durand line makes a mockery of any attempts at establishing and enforcing a border. But even more importantly, it is the deep seated desire of people living on either side of the Durand line to be able to navigate freely across it, as they have done for centuries. And because the people's will is so, thus it shall be so, even if it takes centuries to become so.

The multiple failures of international powers at controlling and taming Afghanistan indicate clearly that the local population will never submit to them en masse. Yet, not even the Taliban can deny that development in the form of infrastructure, industrialization, education, and governance is the need of the day. The only worldly power that can provide this to Afghans is Pakistan. Thus, Pakistanis MUST remain cognizance of their status in the region and proceed accordingly. Establishing the tenet that every Afghan life is as precious as a Pakistani life, based on both religious and human grounds, would cost us little, yet increase our prestige in the eyes of the common Afghan. And for Pakistan, an understanding and welcoming Afghan population provides a much needed strategic depth that we shall never find in Iran. I am amazed how this simple point is lost to everyone, top down.

What cannot be conquered through guns and missiles, can always be conquered with pure love. The question is, are our hearts big enough for tough love?

I agree with every word in there. I have long advocated it. Allah us pay rehm nahin krta jo makhlooq par rehm nahin krta.

 

[El Sidd]

I agree with every word in there. I have long advocated it. Allah us pay rehm nahin krta jo makhlooq par rehm nahin krta.

tu aap Pakistan per rahem kion nahi karte?
khud ki jhooli me ched hain or dosron kay liye bheek mangnay ko taras rahe ho
koi sur koi pair wali baaten kiya karo