Why Pak Marines treated like orphan

[Awan68]

To put an already short matter even shorter marines are an offensive asset designed to stamp ur authority on hostile land via sea, simply put we cannot have offensive designs with a 300 billion economy. For now the focus is on mantaining a credible deterence in all horizons of military warfare. If the economy situation improves over the next decade like lets say a 1.5-2 trillion than u will see the defensive doctrine of Pak military shift to an offensive one and we will than see a proper blue water navy, more heavy transport aircrafts, long range bombers, amphibious transport docks and a proper marine force capable of taking the war to enemy shores and for that we need amphibious transport docks that cost around 2-3 bill a piece after setting up all the requisite equipment.. a blue water navy and offensive marine force go hand in hand, the later cannot exist without the former.

 

[Signalian]

Marines in itself a word comprises a very very special force that can do any job from highs of skies to bottom of seas and on land

In other countries Marines have weapons which none of other three forces even think of having

But in Pak it is different our Marines are tasked as security guards mostly with very little budget what navy gets Marines won't even get half of it they lack proper helicopters ships and amphbious ships and tanks

Few hovercraft they have but mostly navy uses them

Pak Marines should have dedicated gunship fleet as we are buying ATAK most of chunk army eats it Marines should be given proper share and authority over weapons like MI 17 are of lesser use to airforce than Marines C 130 should be given to Marines too AL KHALID tanks to save our shores from Indian invasion and few naval FRIGATES fully authorized dedicated under marine command autonomously

PAkistan Marines (PM) are treated like orphans because firstly of their history. Their past ops have been in shambles and the force was disbanded in early 70's. Then after approx 20 years, a need was felt to raise the force again.

The need of PM was felt in E-Pak due to terrain which required ops of amphibious nature and PA infantry battalions needed more training for that and were already short in numbers to fulfill other duties. So PM was born out of necessity of geography.

In W-Pak or Pakistan terrain now, an amphibious assault on India in case of war was not promoted by the PN. There were lack of landing craft, air cover, follow up supplies and other factors. So again the need was not felt until 1990's.

The area of Sir creek was managed by PA and when PN was expanding, a need was felt for a security force for Naval installations as trained sailors were needed on ships/subs etc. paramilitary forces like FC were not available for constant Naval guard duties as they fall under interior ministry.

Elsewhere in Pakistan, the geography didn't allow a regular amphibious force to conduct amphibious warfare. Whatever water obstacles that PA could face were managed by equipment given to Army Engineers. In plain words, no geographical area else than sir creek required an amphibious force or amphibious ops.

As soon as PM was made, Sir creek area was given as area of responsibility and Creek battalion was born, a defensive force to defend this area. A battalion sized force was considered enough to defend this area and another battalion sized force for security of Naval installations. The personnel shortage was solved by transferring personnel from Naval police. They were given Air Defence duties and trained on SAM systems.

Due to expansion of Naval installations and Gwadar port coming in the scene, a third battalion was inducted after 23 years of PM re-birth.

There is another factor to be considered here, any force/unit/ formation which has an officer posted in top brass is expected to be like a father to that force. This is a trend in Army, Generals look after their own parent units. PM born in 1990 had no high ranking top brass.

So a force born out of necessity for security and defence role is just given enough weapons to fulfill its duty in an effective manner. Recent amphibious exercises have shown that the force has potential to be expanded in its roles and can also take on offensive ops, but a requirement of such an ops is doubtful.

PM would have been a bigger force with heavier weapons and tech, if there was no other way for enemy but conducting an amphibious assault by enemy was the path of attack on Pakistan and ground assault chances were negligible. However that's not the case so adequate measures have been taken to defend against an amphibious/ground assault in creek region.

Pakistan doesn't invade other countries through an expeditionary force or amphibious force unlike US Marines. The coast line is small to defend also. PM is still capable of an amphibious assault to a certain degree.

Circumstances can ofcourse change if PM is made an offensive force and is expected to cross the border in case of war and operate/advance in enemy territory. So far that's the job PA.

 

[Bullzz]

PAkistan Marines (PM) are treated like orphans because firstly of their history. Their past ops have been in shambles and the force was disbanded in early 70's. Then after approx 20 years, a need was felt to raise the force again.

The need of PM was felt in E-Pak due to terrain which required ops of amphibious nature and PA infantry battalions needed more training for that and were already short in numbers to fulfill other duties. So PM was born out of necessity of geography.

In W-Pak or Pakistan terrain now, an amphibious assault on India in case of war was not promoted by the PN. There were lack of landing craft, air cover, follow up supplies and other factors. So again the need was not felt until 1990's.

The area of Sir creek was managed by PA and when PN was expanding, a need was felt for a security force for Naval installations as trained sailors were needed on ships/subs etc. paramilitary forces like FC were not available for constant Naval guard duties as they fall under interior ministry.

Elsewhere in Pakistan, the geography didn't allow a regular amphibious force to conduct amphibious warfare. Whatever water obstacles that PA could face were managed by equipment given to Army Engineers. In plain words, no geographical area else than sir creek required an amphibious force or amphibious ops.

As soon as PM was made, Sir creek area was given as area of responsibility and Creek battalion was born, a defensive force to defend this area. A battalion sized force was considered enough to defend this area and another battalion sized force for security of Naval installations. The personnel shortage was solved by transferring personnel from Naval police. They were given Air Defence duties and trained on SAM systems.

Due to expansion of Naval installations and Gwadar port coming in the scene, a third battalion was inducted after 23 years of PM re-birth.

There is another factor to be considered here, any force/unit/ formation which has an officer posted in top brass is expected to be like a father to that force. This is a trend in Army, Generals look after their own parent units. PM born in 1990 had no high ranking top brass.

So a force born out of necessity for security and defence role is just given enough weapons to fulfill its duty in an effective manner. Recent amphibious exercises have shown that the force has potential to be expanded in its roles and can also take on offensive ops, but a requirement of such an ops is doubtful.

PM would have been a bigger force with heavier weapons and tech, if there was no other way for enemy but conducting an amphibious assault by enemy was the path of attack on Pakistan and ground assault chances were negligible. However that's not the case so adequate measures have been taken to defend against an amphibious/ground assault in creek region.

Pakistan doesn't invade other countries through an expeditionary force or amphibious force unlike US Marines. The coast line is small to defend also. PM is still capable of an amphibious assault to a certain degree.

Circumstances can ofcourse change if PM is made an offensive force and is expected to cross the border in case of war and operate/advance in enemy territory. So far that's the job PA.

Good Job done. A very Well written brief about Pakistan Marines.

 

[CHI RULES]

PAkistan Marines (PM) are treated like orphans because firstly of their history. Their past ops have been in shambles and the force was disbanded in early 70's. Then after approx 20 years, a need was felt to raise the force again.

The need of PM was felt in E-Pak due to terrain which required ops of amphibious nature and PA infantry battalions needed more training for that and were already short in numbers to fulfill other duties. So PM was born out of necessity of geography.

In W-Pak or Pakistan terrain now, an amphibious assault on India in case of war was not promoted by the PN. There were lack of landing craft, air cover, follow up supplies and other factors. So again the need was not felt until 1990's.

The area of Sir creek was managed by PA and when PN was expanding, a need was felt for a security force for Naval installations as trained sailors were needed on ships/subs etc. paramilitary forces like FC were not available for constant Naval guard duties as they fall under interior ministry.

Elsewhere in Pakistan, the geography didn't allow a regular amphibious force to conduct amphibious warfare. Whatever water obstacles that PA could face were managed by equipment given to Army Engineers. In plain words, no geographical area else than sir creek required an amphibious force or amphibious ops.

As soon as PM was made, Sir creek area was given as area of responsibility and Creek battalion was born, a defensive force to defend this area. A battalion sized force was considered enough to defend this area and another battalion sized force for security of Naval installations. The personnel shortage was solved by transferring personnel from Naval police. They were given Air Defence duties and trained on SAM systems.

Due to expansion of Naval installations and Gwadar port coming in the scene, a third battalion was inducted after 23 years of PM re-birth.

There is another factor to be considered here, any force/unit/ formation which has an officer posted in top brass is expected to be like a father to that force. This is a trend in Army, Generals look after their own parent units. PM born in 1990 had no high ranking top brass.

So a force born out of necessity for security and defence role is just given enough weapons to fulfill its duty in an effective manner. Recent amphibious exercises have shown that the force has potential to be expanded in its roles and can also take on offensive ops, but a requirement of such an ops is doubtful.

PM would have been a bigger force with heavier weapons and tech, if there was no other way for enemy but conducting an amphibious assault by enemy was the path of attack on Pakistan and ground assault chances were negligible. However that's not the case so adequate measures have been taken to defend against an amphibious/ground assault in creek region.

Pakistan doesn't invade other countries through an expeditionary force or amphibious force unlike US Marines. The coast line is small to defend also. PM is still capable of an amphibious assault to a certain degree.

Circumstances can ofcourse change if PM is made an offensive force and is expected to cross the border in case of war and operate/advance in enemy territory. So far that's the job PA.

Sir already Navy has SSGN to enter in enemy territory to attack naval assets, similarly Pak marines are gradually getting better equipment just like PN. The terrain of Kuch area is not suitable for heavy MBTS even lighter MBTS may be useful in limited numbers. In near future one should assume that marines shall get Medium range SAMs along with Utility/Attack Helicopters like Mi35/A129s as soon as available in numbers. Priorities are set in case of cash strap defense forces same is here. We should not bring everything in negative tone.As start of discussion is that Marines are treated as orphans meanwhile many have already negated this. Similarly the senior person starting thread has not perhaps checked the role of marines in case of Pakistan instead have given examples of marines of foreign countries also the terrain in which they are so far operating.
I humbly request that we should not pass verdict until and unless we are expert of that area. If someone retired from navy even can't be considered as expert on Pak marines affairs .

For th

Sorry to say what u think I did not meant it I was just saying Marines are the most toughest force who train hard to take all three air land sea chalanges head on Should be given proper weapons and equal opportunity to develop rather than wasting such a elite force just a guarding naval gates

Where army airforce navy fails US calls US Marines mostly than it's army personal because they are better trained

Sir unusual circumstances need unusual measures on one side we are facing an open enemy like India and it's ally Afghanistan on other side we are also facing moles/funded terrorists of opposers of CPEC including at least half a dozen foreign secret services( perhaps also including that of our so called brotherly Muslim allies). The guard duty on Naval installations is not of common one when you have to face highly trained commandos.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think we just don't have the tools to have a strategy of launching a coast to coast , operation involving marines to land on a shore across the seas

I don't see our Marines branch enhancing greatly in next few years it will take 4-5 years or more before we see any move. We just have to fill gaps in other areas on Land / Border first

While the Navy sector has been revitalized in last few years however we are still making modest improvements to put ourselves in group of nations with minimum detterence at Sea

Our present goal is strictly protection of near Pakistan , interest at seas and defending the coastal cities

• Development of coastal defence missiles
  
• Arrival of new frigates
  
• Arrival of new Submarines
  
• Arrival of corvettes
  
• Manufacturing of coastal Missile boats (Azmat class Missile ships)

May be in 25 years he doctrine will change. However don't see arrival of any major change in Coast to coast strategy which demands creation of large marine force.

With CPEC I do see us geting more Surveying ships and tracking traffic at sea and also more frigates to protect assets however Marines will be strictly for special missions

Presently if we can make a notable force at Asian Level that would be a great achivement or goal for next 10 years

 

[Signalian]

PM can even be useful in military bases formed abroad, which has no scene in near future.

Combined Task force-151 should also have a PM company deployed for action against Pirates along with SSG N.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_151

 

[blain2]

plus Corruption is a huge factor in our Armed forces too ..

Facts please?

 

[Zarvan]

Marines role need to be changed from just security guards to a full on Army. Which are trained to operate in any terrain from Karachi to Siachin. As for their current role well that should be given to Para Military Force mainly Coast Guard and Maritime Security Agency.

 

[The Accountant]

Marines in itself a word comprises a very very special force that can do any job from highs of skies to bottom of seas and on land

In other countries Marines have weapons which none of other three forces even think of having

But in Pak it is different our Marines are tasked as security guards mostly with very little budget what navy gets Marines won't even get half of it they lack proper helicopters ships and amphbious ships and tanks

Few hovercraft they have but mostly navy uses them

Pak Marines should have dedicated gunship fleet as we are buying ATAK most of chunk army eats it Marines should be given proper share and authority over weapons like MI 17 are of lesser use to airforce than Marines C 130 should be given to Marines too AL KHALID tanks to save our shores from Indian invasion and few naval FRIGATES fully authorized dedicated under marine command autonomously

I think your comparison is mostly with western countries where marines are required to go into the danger zone mostly to the enemy terriroty ... In Pakistan role is assigned to SSG therefore they are more properly equipped for the task ... In Pakistan it do make sense as our prime enemy is in our next door and most of the offensive oeprations are to be taken on land whereas most of the western operations (primarily USA) are to be converted offshore therefore Marines are prime strike force who are trained for both land based and water based special operations ...

So answere is our Marines role is not same as of US marines ...

 

[Zarvan]

I think your comparison is mostly with western countries where marines are required to go into the danger zone mostly to the enemy terriroty ... In Pakistan role is assigned to SSG therefore they are more properly equipped for the task ... In Pakistan it do make sense as our prime enemy is in our next door and most of the offensive oeprations are to be taken on land whereas most of the western operations (primarily USA) are to be converted offshore therefore Marines are prime strike force who are trained for both land based and water based special operations ...

So answere is our Marines role is not same as of US marines ...

Yes we already know it but time to change the role

 

[The Accountant]

Yes we already know it but time to change the role

Why we need so ? Ithink we still dont need the capability ...

 

[Zarvan]

Why we need so ? Ithink we still dont need the capability ...

Time to think of playing Global Role and also locally Marine can work as strike force entire Marine should be trained and developed as strike force with one task in case of war enter Indian territory and deny them area and keep them busy in their own area

 

[The Accountant]

Time to think of playing Global Role and also locally Marine can work as strike force entire Marine should be trained and developed as strike force with one task in case of war enter Indian territory and deny them area and keep them busy in their own area

I agree that could be one of the strategies but as of now our problems are more in-house... We are dealing asymmetrical warefare and our prime target should be to clear in-house issues ...

With the situation at hand SSG is prime responsibility ...

Thats my opinion and as this is just opinion so you can agree or disagree with it ...

 

[DeceptiveEagle]

We'll build our marines force more advanced but it'll take time & MONEY is the very big issue. our navy has less portion in defense budget & in navy marine has the least, so its also a big concern.

 

[Signalian]

Sir already Navy has SSGN to enter in enemy territory to attack naval assets, similarly Pak marines are gradually getting better equipment just like PN. The terrain of Kuch area is not suitable for heavy MBTS even lighter MBTS may be useful in limited numbers. In near future one should assume that marines shall get Medium range SAMs along with Utility/Attack Helicopters like Mi35/A129s as soon as available in numbers. Priorities are set in case of cash strap defense forces same is here. We should not bring everything in negative tone.As start of discussion is that Marines are treated as orphans meanwhile many have already negated this. Similarly the senior person starting thread has not perhaps checked the role of marines in case of Pakistan instead have given examples of marines of foreign countries also the terrain in which they are so far operating.
I humbly request that we should not pass verdict until and unless we are expert of that area. If someone retired from navy even can't be considered as expert on Pak marines affairs .

For th

SSG (N) will be burdened with a lot of tasks in the event of war. They are still a small force with a lot of responsibility on their shoulders. They will use Naval assets on priority basis and since PM shares Naval resources, the tasks of PM will get affected.

The area of sir creek and the area around it is marshy, but hover crafts in the inventory gives a solution along with small fast attack boats and rubber dinghies. All the PM force doesnt need to operate in Sir Creek and if its made a dedicated amphibious attack force operating on foreign soil, it may need to operate on terrain which maybe desert or plains and for that it may need heavier weapons. The aviation component should be independent too.