Why Pak Army remained silent when our children were being killed ?

[EasyNow]

Can't the drone haters see that it is THE most effective tool for targeting insurgents and remote localised militias. This is the reason Pakistan is so keen to develop its own drones.

There is no problem in taking the help of your allies drone capabilities when you have none of your own.

Would you rather see manned aerial bombing raids instead. The truth is thousands of lives were saved because of the drones as the alternative was far more ruthless.

I believe when the Pakistani men in charge meet their maker, they can do so proudly, they made the right decision at a difficult time.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Everybody who visits this forum frequently might know that I'm not an anti army element and I certainly don't like to bash Pak army needlessly so this is a serious question.
From 2003 till 2013,the Americans carried out free drone strikes in Pakistan.We all know that the majority of the people killed were innocent civilians.I won't go intp official or unofficial count of the deceased.
Why was this being allowed to happen? We must not fool ourselves by thinking that all was happening at the consent of the civilian govt and the Army was helpless.Everybody knows the might of Pak Army inside Pakistan.I can't bring myself to think that Americans were doing this without our consent.They don't have the fortitude to poke and finger us like that.They could never risk an escalation with Pakistan while they were trapped in Afg.
We can't give this idea of collateral damage to ourselves.There is should be no such thing as collateral damage.
The blood of a Muslim is more scared in the sight of Allah than the Kaa'ba.
We know that many officers were deeply frustated at the drone strikes.Why would they be frustated if the strikes were only picking out militants ?
What was the wisdom in the Army's hierarchy being silent ? What kind of wisdom permits letting your people being bombed ?
So,kis kay hath pay apnon ka lahoo talash kia jay ?
We don't come to this forum for singing praises to our Army and country only,we discuss things here.I will be disappointed if the mods block this thread as I don't see myself violating any rules and I know that this is not Bharat Rakshak.

Almost all drone attacks were co-ordinated with Pakistani intelligence and military. War is war; and people die in war - that's how it works. Civilian casualties were minimized - and drone operators had to take massive risks; they had to decide above, whether a group of people moving in strange co-ordinated movements - were terrorists or school children switching classes.

 

[Mrc]

basic reason while drones were allowed and not f15s and f16s were not was civilian casualties. the animals which were residing in those lands were daily targeting civilians inside Pakistan and were planning attacks internationally.

one thing some people find very difficult to get through their thick skull is that civilian casualty is a civilian casualty regardless of race, ethnic back ground or RELIGION. any one deliberately causing such casualty is a criminal both in international law and in ISLAMIC LAW.

rape is a rape , murder is a murder whether its committed against Muslims or by them. any one doing such an act needs to be punished and its our ISLAMIC duty to do so.

while an all around onslaught would have resulted in quick clearance of the area .... it would have caused huge civilian losses as these cowards don't have courage to come out an fight. they usually hide amongst civilians.... in fact they keep their families with them so they can avoid being hit... most of the time.....

so it was unacceptable to allow these criminals to attack civilians in Europe America or our own civilians while we work on a strategy to clear the areas. so drones were allowed......

drones mostly killing civilians is mostly a propaganda without any substance...

some people will not learn what ever evidence you present....even quran says so.....

drones is a very good solution for them....

 

[Psychic]

The only thing is that after 9/11 Pakistan Army and ISI wanted to disassociate itself from its own pet extremists whom it once used to gain strategic depth in Afghanistan.

Was there any other choice considering that the US had gone ape after 9/11 ? Those so called "pet extremists" were much better than the only other choice which Afghanistan had at that time. Afghans were ripping each other apart before those "pet extremists" arrived and brought a relative peace and stability in Afghanistan.

Plus, we are unwilling to accept the fact that the ISI played a double game with both Taliban and the US, not for fun or some evil motive, but for the survival of our country and the protection of Pakistan's Western flank.

 

[tarrar]

There are many questions our army have to answer but now the biggest question is that why are they supporting the hardcore criminal & terrorist financiers politicians.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

This thread is about army's role,not the govt.
Nothing of this magnitude can happen in Pakistan if the Army is at odds with govt.
It all happend with the consent of some higher ups in the army.

Everybody who visits this forum frequently might know that I'm not an anti army element and I certainly don't like to bash Pak army needlessly so this is a serious question.
From 2003 till 2013,the Americans carried out free drone strikes in Pakistan.We all know that the majority of the people killed were innocent civilians.I won't go intp official or unofficial count of the deceased.
Why was this being allowed to happen? We must not fool ourselves by thinking that all was happening at the consent of the civilian govt and the Army was helpless.Everybody knows the might of Pak Army inside Pakistan.I can't bring myself to think that Americans were doing this without our consent.They don't have the fortitude to poke and finger us like that.They could never risk an escalation with Pakistan while they were trapped in Afg.
We can't give this idea of collateral damage to ourselves.There is should be no such thing as collateral damage.
The blood of a Muslim is more scared in the sight of Allah than the Kaa'ba.
We know that many officers were deeply frustated at the drone strikes.Why would they be frustated if the strikes were only picking out militants ?
What was the wisdom in the Army's hierarchy being silent ? What kind of wisdom permits letting your people being bombed ?
So,kis kay hath pay apnon ka lahoo talash kia jay ?
We don't come to this forum for singing praises to our Army and country only,we discuss things here.I will be disappointed if the mods block this thread as I don't see myself violating any rules and I know that this is not Bharat Rakshak.

You need to be corrected so i will take this opportunity and will do so. From 2001 to 2007 Pakistan saw only 10 drone strikes resulting in about 90 odd civilian casualties. The democratically elected govt of PPP came to power in 2008 and dear sir from 2008 till 2013 Pakistan saw more than 350 drone strikes resulting in more than 1500 casulties. Dont blame army its the people who gave mandate to their own killers. So please change the name of the thread from why pak army to why democratically elected govt stood silent. Thank you sir

 

[Desert Fox]

Was there any other choice considering that the US had gone ape after 9/11 ? Those so called "pet extremists" were much better than the only other choice which Afghanistan had at that time. Afghans were ripping each other apart before those "pet extremists" arrived and brought a relative peace and stability in Afghanistan.

If these pet extremists were peaceful then why did we ever turn against them and then wage war on them for the past 15 years??

Plus, we are unwilling to accept the fact that the ISI played a double game with both Taliban and the US, not for fun or some evil motive, but for the survival of our country and the protection of Pakistan's Western flank.

Im not sure how abducting and handing over Pakistani citizens to a foreign power and allowing foreign agents to run amok within Pakistan, and protecting the supply lines of the foreign military power that murdered 24 Pakistani troops in cold blood (Salala) after the fact, can be considered acts in favor of Pakistan's survival.

Is it worth it to hand over innocent people to be tortured, raped, and humiliated under any circumstance? Is it okay to protect and allow supply lines through your own country of the very military power that butchered 24 of your troops in cold blood DELIBERATELY (they were repeatedly warned yet still attacked)? Sounds more lik acts of sellouts and cowards.

 

[Super Falcon]

Lets be fair if govt have no control in FATA i call it weak govt dont have right to control other parts


Mushy era was good only finanicially but on major scale it was darkest era where human life in pak have less value than animal life musharaf sold us just he keep his chair this is very simple when US work is over they threw myshy like condem but institutions objectives should not be hijacked by one guy to let whole nation in misery nation security and stability should be paramount than president PM COAS orders they come and go but nation stays so do what best interest of nation not what in interest of saving chair

 

[Psychic]

If these pet extremists were peaceful then why did we ever turn against them and then wage war on them for the past 15 years??

First of all, there is a difference between ISI's pets, which are still being considered our strategic assets and the TTP/AQ. In order to get an understanding of those differences, I suggest you do a research on the developments in the Af-Pak region since 2002 and you will understand what I am talking about. Apart from a few of our "pets" ,most of them have not trained their guns on Pakistan yet(Including Afghan taliban, Haqqani, Hekmetyar and LeT)...The TTP was formed in 2007 when a dozen or so groups formed an alliance against Pakistani state. The Afghan Taliban and Haqqanis have distanced themselves from attacks against our forces and civilians.


Sure we handed we handed several of them to the Americans including their ambassador Mullah Zaeef in violation of all the international conventions (I do not defend such actions). At the same time, we had turned a blind eye on the activities of Haqqani network and Afghan Taliban in the tribal areas. There is no such word as an ally in the dictionary of ISI or any intelligence agency of the world. If you think that it was about some dollar bills, as Musharraf gloated in his book, you are wrong. US has influence, but that doesn't mean that we are/were slaves of the US.

In the second part of your post, you have gone way too much emotional while totally disregarding facts and figures. A country dependent on IMF's bailout packages cannot hope to do much against a superpower...There are many events which occur backstage. Unfortunately, we do not learn from history. what happened to Iraq and Saddam? If you want to stand up to the West, then atleast develop yourselves economically and militarily like them. If you are unable to do that, then play them out.....Iran, which gloated so much has now submitted to the West. As for the cowards part, a decision to wage a war is based upon the relative strengths of the belligerents and the consequences of any such decision, being brave or coward has nothing to do with it.

 

[TheNoob]

I believe the OP intiated this discussion after encountering the TTP spreaded propaganda last year (after the Peshawar attack) on this topic.

 

[Areesh]

Please stop this irrational excuse.
You are telling me that everyone who was killed was guilty of hosting and protecting militants !
Don't you know tribal societies ? Women and children have no say in their matters.
You are telling me that the killing of kids and females was justified because their family men might have hosted militants.

I am saying when you reject to follow law of the land and want to remain "ilaqa e ghair" then don't expect government or state to save you when some drone bombs you.

How hard it is to understand that drones happened only in areas where Pakistan had no rule or authority and not mainland Pakistan like Quetta, Peshawar or Karachi?

Who is the one who convinced us to host them even praised us and Who was in the power while it was being done ?

It is useless to discuss who allowed these guys to live in FATA. These guys lived in other parts of Pakistan too. Khalid Shiekh Muhammad was found living in Rawalpindi. Many Al Qaeda terrorists were found living in Karachi, Quetta and other cities of Pakistan. But no drone happened. Why? Because unlike FATA Pakistani law rules on these cities. When you have no control on your own land then you can't whine about someone using drones to kill their enemies.

 

[hibiny]

Wait man, ever the time comes for an answer.

 

[Super Falcon]

I have answer corrupt officers like musharaf and kiyani cowards become COAS of army which is the only organization when pakistani looses hopes see as savior

Their cruel thinking and support to corrupt people dont act in interest of country

Look raheel is doing right thing if musharaf did it in 2003 when these attacks started happen in pak we had praised mushy and mushy open support to terrorist organization like MQM who ruin karachi look today with braveheart raheel they are known and exposed as terrorist this is whi i say army coas should never be apponited from any political system either nation given opportunity to apponint army chief via digital voting i might be wrong but no faith on politics and pak system

 

[litman]

@Alpha bee tee
according to well known scholars like shiekh imran and dr. israr, pakistani political and military elite are the second biggest betrayers of islam after the saudi arabia. listen to them and you will understand where our leaders commit huge mistakes.