Why Pak army entered so late into the 1948 war of Kashmir?

[Mav3rick]

BTW last i checked it was India that ruined EAST PAKISTAN.

Perhaps, you should check again, EAST Pakistan was always going to become Bangladesh whether India got involved or not as it was just a matter of time. The only way Pakistan could have continued to hold on to EAST Pakistan by force and through cruel policies, would have been with direct Indian and indirect US support.

Pakistan was at war with Pakistan, else when have you ever been able to win any war?

 

[Samandri]

Smart indians propagated their story very smartly , look at this picture.

Pakistanis on the other hand are confused whether Pathan tribals were villians or heroes. They dont know the details, they are not told what exactly was the role of Pak army. Whether tribals acted independently or operated in coordination with pak army officers. Pak army website and literature is silent over the contribution of pashtun tribesmen and poonchis. No details of combats with indian army are available from pakistani side. Pakistani literature is only fixated at looting of hindus and sikhs at baramullah while they are not telling the truth, that before entering into kashmir, mehsuds were instigated by pak army officers to cleanse kashmir of hindus and sikhs.

 

[Mav3rick]

I still feel whatever happened at that time good or bad should be left there as it is and people on both side should have moved on but it was armed general who was busy in arm wrestling and started attack in 1965. This is the reason we had so many wars. I dont have problem with either side of Kashmir people are having, lets make it international border and move on. Pakistani generals and politicians utilized kashmir issue way more than necessary and it was the main reason for involvement of IA in such large role in1971. Also, making G&B as pakistan's state and gifting Karakoram area to China lost the case for Pakistan.

Making the LoC an IB is the 'only' viable solution in my opinion as neither side is militarily strong enough to forcefully take the 'enemy occupied part', atleast neither is strong enough for that yet. And in the Nuclear scenario, I seriously doubt any redefinition of border or LoC can happen either way.

However, the 'only' viable solution is most likely not acceptable to Kashmiris. We need to take into account what they want and find some middle ground. Maybe complete autonomy to Kashmir with both sides demilitarizing their occupation of Kashmir.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

We need to take into account what they want and find some middle ground. Maybe complete autonomy to Kashmir with both sides demilitarizing their occupation of Kashmir.

Most Kashmiris want to live like any Bihari, Tamil or Marathi - with peace, dignity and honor.

And those demands you hear(because they shout the loudest) want Kashmir to be purified. Autonomy won't satisfy that lot, not even independence - only a complete 100% cleansing of Kashmir is their declared aim. Read the manifesto of Srinagar's most 'popular' women's organization - Dukhtaran i Millat.

If Kashmir is given complete autonomy, rest of the Indian states should also not be discriminated against.

Explain me how you havn't voilated 3rd june's plan?
I am not asking about voilations i am asking about LOC crossings, by freedom fighters. in simple words.

Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims in Punjab and Bengal legislative assemblies would meet and vote for partition.

Ans. Punjab and Bengal.

 

[INDIC]

Smart indians propagated their story very smartly , look at this picture.
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Pakistanis on the other hand are confused whether Pathan tribals were villians or heroes. They dont know the details, they are not told what exactly was the role of Pak army. Whether tribals acted independently or operated in coordination with pak army officers. Pak army website and literature is silent over the contribution of pashtun tribesmen and poonchis. No details of combats with indian army are available from pakistani side. Pakistani literature is only fixated at looting of hindus and sikhs at baramullah while they are not telling the truth, that before entering into kashmir, mehsuds were instigated by pak army officers to cleanse kashmir of hindus and sikhs.

Kashmiris(those from Kashmir valley, don't know about Mirpuri) in general keep very negative and hostile views against Pashtuns. I am talking about Kashmiri Muslims.

 

[Samandri]

Kashmiris(those from Kashmir valley, don't know about Mirpuri) in general keep very negative and hostile views against Pashtuns. I am talking about Kashmiri Muslims.

Its nothing unique, All the indic/desi muslims of subncontinent keep negative and hostile views about pashtuns. Even sindhis have told me that some madad khan pathan have terrorized and devestated the entire sindh in 18th century , and they hate pathans for that.
Truth is not always told. When i did some digging, i found out that Madad khan pathan was invited by kalhoras , who were vassals of Afghans, to deal with Talpur invaders. Talpur balochs snatched power from kalhor sindhis and wrote down a distorted version of history, villifying kalhoras and pathans. Now those talpurs are calling themeselves sindhis. I think same might be the case in baramullah. I dont think we are told true version of history. Jammu massacres might have motivated poonchis and other locals to take revenge from hindus and sikhs of baramulla and other places. Indians blamed it on tribal invaders, pretending that local kashmiris never rose against dogra at all. While pakistani side also threw the entire malba at cannon fodders for failure in the entire war. . If tribals have really looted kashmiris, who provided transport for the looted maal to be transported to waziristan and khyber?. Why pak soldiers at the border allowed tribals to return back from kashmir with looted maal?.

Kashmiris(those from Kashmir valley, don't know about Mirpuri) in general keep very negative and hostile views against Pashtuns. I am talking about Kashmiri Muslims.

Its nothing unique, All the indic/desi muslims of subncontinent keep negative and hostile views about pashtuns. Even sindhis have told me that some madad khan pathan have terrorized and devestated the entire sindh in 18th century , and they hate pathans for that.
Truth is not always told. When i did some digging, i found out that Madad khan pathan was invited by kalhoras , who were vassals of Afghans, to deal with Talpur invaders. Talpur balochs snatched power from kalhor sindhis and wrote down a distorted version of history, villifying kalhoras and pathans. Now those talpurs are calling themeselves sindhis. I think same might be the case in baramullah. I dont think we are told true version of history. Jammu massacres might have motivated poonchis and other locals to take revenge from hindus and sikhs of baramulla and other places. Indians blamed it on tribal invaders, pretending that local kashmiris never rose against dogra at all. While pakistani side also threw the entire malba at cannon fodders for failure in the entire war. . If tribals have really looted kashmiris, who provided transport for the looted maal to be transported to waziristan and khyber?. Why pak soldiers at the border allowed tribals to return back from kashmir with looted maal?.

 

[jojokhan]

Any things says but kashmir is a part of Pakistan.
Kashmir hamara hey
Isay hamnay sawara hey.......

 

[Burhan Wani]

1-once british gen. of PA opted against sending troops in kashmir,,,,the idea of lashkar came in....
compared to pukhtuns,apart from a big mouth, martial paindoos of Pakistan had nothing to show in terms of guts n glory
thus the lashkar was made up of tribals(pukhtoons)
2-they want to show the world that tribals acted independently,,,,n ofcourse,tribals were used as canon fodder,the equipment provided to them and there omission from PA records,explains that,,,,,they were expendable,,somethng which PA can afford to forget.nothing more ,nothing less

Tribal Lashkars was reinforcements to Azaad Kashmir Regular Forces (AKRF) and they havn't took part in major Battles.

 

[Burhan Wani]

Kashmir was liberated by ex-British Indian army officers. Tribals only assisted in bolstering the ranks of existing rebels, who were led by a Sudhan. The domino effect of rebellion was initiated by Gilgit Baltistanis and the chaos that erupted in Punjab and rest of the India. Qabaylis are said to have fought chiefly in Bagh, Muzafarabad and the Kashmir valley sector. Mirpur and Bhimber were liberated exclusively by the native rajputs(rajas). They were persuaded into a "Jihad" by ex-Indian national army officers Raja Sakhi Daler and Raja Habib ur Rahman Khan(famously known as "Fateh-e-bhimber").

There's a widespread propaganda that qabaylis liberated Kashmir and that the local people were born cowards incapable of fighting for themselves. It's blatant revisionism and ANP style delusional bigotry, nothing else. AJK rebellion was started by a Sudhan, and qabaylis and Tanolis only bolstered their forces. Qabaylis didn't fight in southern AJK(Azad Kashmir). The Chibh Rajas of Mirpur and Bhimber are born warriors. The defeated and routed the Bhangi Missal of Sikhs twice in Mirpur, and were only invaded by Dogras after Gulab Singh Dogra killed their king at an invitation via treachery. One of the worst and most dreaded, but undeniably brave, terrorist of Pakistan, Ilyas Kashmiri was a Chibh Raja. The guy who threw Taliban soldiers off helicopters in Swat, General Haroon Aslam(SSG) is also a Chibh Raja.



You don't know anything about AJK war. The main rebels of Kashmir liberation war were Sudhans and Rajas; who were both designated martial races. Google Raja Sakhi Daler and Raja Habib-ur-Rahman Khan. I forgot the name of that Sudhan rebel, whose forces were bolstered by Qabaylis.

Fateh Mirpur Captain Khan Muhammad Khan (Khan of Mong)
He was posted at mirpur by Kashmir jihad Council (known as AKRF) to Lead local militia agianst Dogra Army. They successfully defeated Dogra army due to Captain Khan's courageous Leadreship and later Captain Khan was Known as FAteh mirpu and Khan of Mong.

RIP

 

[Samandri]

Kashmir was liberated by ex-British Indian army officers. Tribals only assisted in bolstering the ranks of existing rebels, who were led by a Sudhan. The domino effect of rebellion was initiated by Gilgit Baltistanis and the chaos that erupted in Punjab and rest of the India. Qabaylis are said to have fought chiefly in Bagh, Muzafarabad and the Kashmir valley sector. Mirpur and Bhimber were liberated exclusively by the native rajputs(rajas). They were persuaded into a "Jihad" by ex-Indian national army officers Raja Sakhi Daler and Raja Habib ur Rahman Khan(famously known as "Fateh-e-bhimber").

There's a widespread propaganda that qabaylis liberated Kashmir and that the local people were born cowards incapable of fighting for themselves. It's blatant revisionism and ANP style delusional bigotry, nothing else. AJK rebellion was started by a Sudhan, and qabaylis and Tanolis only bolstered their forces. Qabaylis didn't fight in southern AJK(Azad Kashmir). The Chibh Rajas of Mirpur and Bhimber are born warriors. The defeated.

ANP style bigotry? Actually khudai khidmatgars and all pashtunists strongely opposed the intervention of some pashtun tribesmen in kashmir. Perhaps reason was their association with congress but it was correctly assumed at that time that these Mehsud and Afridi, shinwari and Mohmand volounteers were going to be used as cannon fodder, as one can see pakistanis are spitting on them and they were presented as villians in the story. In my opinion, in the presence of chib and other rajas, sudhans and mirpuris, and gilgat scouts, ther was no need of tribesmen. Chances are high that many of those tribesmen were actually khyber rifles and tochi scouts.

 

[Burhan Wani]

In short, Grapes are sour i guess.



Yeah everybody can see how brilliantly "TUMNE SAWARA KASHMIR' by turning it into terrorist camiping hub.

Not Terrorist camps, We converted it to Sparta

 

[Kabira]

@Samandri its possible many tribals looted and raped. I also used to believe in propaganda of tribals liberating azad kashmir, but actul history is that local tribes from those áreas liberated AJK. To me this was blatant propaganda and many people still believe this and want to live in denial.

 

[Samandri]

Not Terrorist camps, We converted it to Sparta

So engineer sahab, tell us what exactly happened at baramulla?. If Mahsuds were really looting, killing and raping people of baramullah, why those kashmiri ex-soldiers of british army, rajas, mirpuris and sudhans, who numbered more than 60 thousands according to claims, didnt stop them. The tribals, according to most of the sources, were not more than 3 thousands (at maximum their number is told 10 thousands). Why those 60 thousands kashmiri mujahids didnt proceed to sri nagar on their own?. Why those 60 thousands chib rajas and sudhans were relying on qabaili lashkar of 3 thousands? Who made some delay at baramullah

 

[Burhan Wani]

Fancy names don't change the reality.

But our Kahsmiri Mujahideen are better trained compared to Indian trianed BLA, BRA, Aren't they?

So engineer sahab, tell us what exactly happened at baramulla?. If Mahsuds were really looting, killing and raping people of baramullah, why those kashmiri ex-soldiers of british army, rajas, mirpuris and sudhans, who numbered more than 60 thousands according to claims, didnt stop them. The tribals, according to most of the sources, were not more than 3 thousands (at maximum their number is told 10 thousands). Why those 60 thousands kashmiri mujahids didnt proceed to sri nagar on their own?. Why those 60 thousands chib rajas and sudhans were relying on qabaili lashkar of 3 thousands? Who made some delay at baramullah

Who said that tribals killed,looted and raped hah only 1,2 cases because they havent any food and shelters. and there was only 800 sudhans and rajas who voluntered for gorilla attacks. Let me share the names of martyrs after batlle of thorarh.

 

[Burhan Wani]

India doesn't train BLA or BRA or any that sort.
Last India trained was Mukti Bahini, you know the result. right?

Your are comparing Mukhti bahinis with our spartans. And dont lie about BLA and BRA