Why No Helos???

[Ahmet Pasha]

Why did PAC never try to set up some sort of basic helo manufacturing we at least could have manufactured a basic bird suc as the Lama/Alloueete???

Still to this day we do not have any JVs??

Russia and China have a JV to come up with a successor to the Mi171(doesn't seem likely with new Chinese copycat blackhawk) and the Mi26.

Turkey has partnered up with Italians to make a nice medium weight multi purpose helo both for civvy street and mil.

Now they are making the 10-12 ton blackhawk equivalent propably to replace the Cougars they still have left Turk Kara Kuvvetleri.

We didn't even pay any proper attention to the poles and ruskies who came with their small helos 1 or 2 years ago???

Wheras India has made a Eurocopter/Airbus Ec135 like helo. And a pathetic attempt at what resembles a Roovialk-Tiger mutant attack helicopter.

So
Why PAC why????

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Why did PAC never try to set up some sort of basic helo manufacturing we at least could have manufactured a basic bird suc as the Lama/Alloueete???

Still to this day we do not have any JVs??

Russia and China have a JV to come up with a successor to the Mi171(doesn't seem likely with new Chinese copycat blackhawk) and the Mi26.

Turkey has partnered up with Italians to make a nice medium weight multi purpose helo both for civvy street and mil.

Now they are making the 10-12 ton blackhawk equivalent propably to replace the Cougars they still have left Turk Kara Kuvvetleri.

We didn't even pay any proper attention to the poles and ruskies who came with their small helos 1 or 2 years ago???

Wheras India has made a Eurocopter/Airbus Ec135 like helo. And a pathetic attempt at what resembles a Roovialk-Tiger mutant attack helicopter.

So
Why PAC why????

Like a lot of things, the idea behind manufacturing helicopters in Pakistan got canned due to Pressler in the 1990s. Since then, Pakistan's relative financial situation never got better, so funding was prioritized on fewer -- i.e., must have, cannot live without -- things. That said, the Army is curious about Aviation City, so keep an eye on this front in the coming 3-5 years.

 

[ziaulislam]

Definitively army will need a medium size chopper in 200+ numbers..its a financially viable solution to built your own..from china ..will they wont offer you something that easy..better find something in south africa europe or turkey

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Since labor is a lot cheaper in Pakistan than in Euro/American countries. Wouldnt a homegrown helo be a lot cheaper if we got a few engineers/mind power from overseas and tried to make our own.

Like a lot of things, the idea behind manufacturing helicopters in Pakistan got canned due to Pressler in the 1990s. Since then, Pakistan's relative financial situation never got better, so funding was prioritized on fewer -- i.e., must have, cannot live without -- things. That said, the Army is curious about Aviation City, so keep an eye on this front in the coming 3-5 years.

Like @ziaulislam said. I think the army now realizes that the alouettes, lamas and pumas/cougars are on their last legs.
And the Mi171s although very robust workhorses also have a few limitations in terms of modern and future capabilities.

 

[lcloo]

Many people do not realised that making slow moving helicopters is far more difficult technically than making fast jets. Then there is the question of economy of scale, how many helicopters you intend to make in order to justify the cost of factory, machine tools, human training, research and development etc.

The most cost-effective and time saving way is to go for a joint-venture manufacturing of an existing helicopter, or a modified version of an existing helicopter (as India do). If you go for your own indigenous design, expect up to 20 years spending on research & development time before the first prototype can be rolled out.

Go for a sanction free helicopter.

 

[airomerix]

The level of sophistication required to produce helicopters is very high.

So in order to embark on this journey, we first need to see the demand. And in Pakistan the demand is simply not there. 200 odd heli's will serve our requirements for the next 20 years. Off the shelf options are way better in this case.

 

[ziaulislam]

Many people do not realised that making slow moving helicopters is far more difficult technically than making fast jets. Then there is the question of economy of scale, how many helicopters you intend to make in order to justify the cost of factory, machine tools, human training, research and development etc.

The most cost-effective and time saving way is to go for a joint-venture manufacturing of an existing helicopter, or a modified version of an existing helicopter (as India do). If you go for your own indigenous design, expect up to 20 years spending on research & development time before the first prototype can be rolled out.

Go for a sanction free helicopter.

you can join other countries or go for JV or license build.. you can join turkish program..or find a patner in europe

 

[iLION12345_1]

I’m pretty sure soon we’ll start working on one. We’re buying AW139s currently and have a good amount of Mi17s, Bell412EPs and Fennecs. The pumas we have are not nearing retirement as some people here are suggesting, they’ll be serving for quite some more time. But the Lamas and Alloutes are already on their way out and need a replacement. The AW139 can’t quite fit their role, so we’ll have to find or make one to do so soon.

 

[ziaulislam]

I’m pretty sure soon we’ll start working on one. We’re buying AW139s currently and have a good amount of Mi17s, Bell412EPs and Fennecs. The pumas we have are not nearing retirement as some people here are suggesting, they’ll be serving for quite some more time. But the Lamas and Alloutes are already on their way out and need a replacement. The AW139 can’t quite fit their role, so we’ll have to find or make one to do so soon.

if quiet some time is 15 years than we need something now..even 20 years means need something now

i think a single plateform should replace both mi 17 & pumas, while lighter need can be cartered by aw13

 

[Armchair]

It's been a steady case in Pakistan of no strategic thinking. The main reason is that the country has been run by people more interested in defence housing societies and foreign bank accounts. When this changes, it is a simple matter to join Turkey's program as a partner, in an arrangement similar to the F-35 project.

There is no magic in a simple helicopter. Many countries produced one, including the 1980s apartheid South Africa. No reason Pakistan can't.

 

[Imran Khan]

Yeah as its easy

 

[Philip the Arab]

Hmmm... Pakistan could make a helicopter like the HAL Dhruv and develop it into an attack helicopter as well as a utility helicopter as India did. I hate mentioning India here as I have no clue how successful the LCH is yet.

If Pakistan could do this, they could buy a heavier attack helicopter like Mi-28, Mi-24, etc and make their own light attack helicopter like LCH. The Mi-28 is about 19000 pounds, whereas the LCH is about 5000 pounds. I'm not saying it has to be an attack helicopter but it could be a recon or observation variant. South Africa built their Alouette 3 into an attack helicopter variant that developed in to the Rooivalk.

Alouette 3 airframe made into attack helicopter prototype.

 

[On the Edge]

how had Dhruv come up for india, can we call it a success?

 

[Philip the Arab]

how had Dhruv come up for india, can we call it a success?

231 were built so I guess you could call it a success.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I’m pretty sure soon we’ll start working on one. We’re buying AW139s currently and have a good amount of Mi17s, Bell412EPs and Fennecs. The pumas we have are not nearing retirement as some people here are suggesting, they’ll be serving for quite some more time. But the Lamas and Alloutes are already on their way out and need a replacement. The AW139 can’t quite fit their role, so we’ll have to find or make one to do so soon.

As well as PN sea king needs a replacement @iLION12345_1

how had Dhruv come up for india, can we call it a success?