Why No Helos???

[Philip the Arab]

As well as PN sea king needs a replacement @iLION12345_1

Its a good enough success m8. I know the people next to Afghanistan hate Indians but you can't deny its a good start for India.
It also developed relatively good variants of the Dhruv that can serve roles thus simplifying logistics because similar parts.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Its a good enough success m8. I know the people next to Afghanistan hate Indians but you can't deny its a good start for India.
It also developed relatively good variants of the Dhruv that can serve roles thus simplifying logistics because similar parts.

yes ofcourse its a good start for India @Philip the Arab

 

[On the Edge]

Its a good enough success m8. I know the people next to Afghanistan hate Indians but you can't deny its a good start for India.
It also developed relatively good variants of the Dhruv that can serve roles thus simplifying logistics because similar parts.

Yes if large numbers are serving India then definitely a good project

 

[randomradio]

Many people do not realised that making slow moving helicopters is far more difficult technically than making fast jets. Then there is the question of economy of scale, how many helicopters you intend to make in order to justify the cost of factory, machine tools, human training, research and development etc.

The most cost-effective and time saving way is to go for a joint-venture manufacturing of an existing helicopter, or a modified version of an existing helicopter (as India do). If you go for your own indigenous design, expect up to 20 years spending on research & development time before the first prototype can be rolled out.

Go for a sanction free helicopter.

Our helicopters are fresh designs, not modified from earlier designs.

 

[messiach]

Agreed.

Why did PAC never try to set up some sort of basic helo manufacturing we at least could have manufactured a basic bird suc as the Lama/Alloueete???

Still to this day we do not have any JVs??

Russia and China have a JV to come up with a successor to the Mi171(doesn't seem likely with new Chinese copycat blackhawk) and the Mi26.

Turkey has partnered up with Italians to make a nice medium weight multi purpose helo both for civvy street and mil.

Now they are making the 10-12 ton blackhawk equivalent propably to replace the Cougars they still have left Turk Kara Kuvvetleri.

We didn't even pay any proper attention to the poles and ruskies who came with their small helos 1 or 2 years ago???

Wheras India has made a Eurocopter/Airbus Ec135 like helo. And a pathetic attempt at what resembles a Roovialk-Tiger mutant attack helicopter.

So
Why PAC why????

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

We didnt have demand for JF17 acc to your logic. Because we only need a few hundred of them.

EXPORTS
I bet PAC didn't initially think JF17 could have been exported after meeting domestic needs. But soon the idea clicked with them.

So we should have our own helo. To meet our own needs and after that start exporting to fellow third world nations and make $$$$

The level of sophistication required to produce helicopters is very high.

So in order to embark on this journey, we first need to see the demand. And in Pakistan the demand is simply not there. 200 odd heli's will serve our requirements for the next 20 years. Off the shelf options are way better in this case.

 

[airomerix]

We didnt have demand for JF17 acc to your logic. Because we only need a few hundred of them.

EXPORTS
I bet PAC didn't initially think JF17 could have been exported after meeting domestic needs. But soon the idea clicked with them.

So we should have our own helo. To meet our own needs and after that start exporting to fellow third world nations and make $$$$

Its not just about 'numbers' required. Access to such technology is also a major factor in pursuing indigenisation. JF-17 was a result of sanctions with no one willing to offer us a fighter aircraft. Utility helicopters are not hard to find.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I'm surprised at the level of defeatism shown in this thread.

Ohhhhh!!!! It's soooo COOOOUUMPLEX to make a helo Ahhhhh!!!! Ohhhh only wite developed nations can make a helo Oooohhh!!! We dont have a requirement.

WE DONT HAVE A REQUIREMENT
This exact sentence Pakistan military has said to soooo many weapon systems/projects that fell into it's lap at a good price for the time.
And now same Pak mil begs for a few such weapon system as it desperately needs them.

Yeah I know we dont have resources i.e money.

But to say that soooo many engineers in PAC and a vast sea untapped bright minds in our nations can't make a helo akin to blackhawk???? Which btw is serving in a vast area of roles such maritime, SAR, CSAR, and so many others. Pak mil needs to look to future. In my views Turk nh90/10-12 ton helo is a very good oppurtunity to jump onto. We need a helo that serves multiple purposes at once.

I think @ziaulislam rightly pointed out option for a JV afterall JF17 is a JV thats why it's called Joint Fighter.

Also @Armchair what u said about property dealer generals is very true. These lot should be hanged as @MastanKhan often adcocates. Their main goal is just to become an Afsar cause their parent told em to. I was listening to Lt.Gen Tariq Khan whom I highly respect say that Army/Military not allowing A/O levels recruits in deprived Pak Mil of some great minds who could have been fine officers.

Its not just about 'numbers' required. Access to such technology is also a major factor in pursuing indigenisation. JF-17 was a result of sanctions with no one willing to offer us a fighter aircraft. Utility helicopters are not hard to find.

But should you dole out $$$ in a tight economic situation.

Instead of setting up and benefitting local industrial/economic eco system and creating jobs???

Making helos at home might also enable same tech/sub systems/engineering to flow into local industry as well.

I think whole no can do attitude is spread around by property dealer generals. Who have a stake in getting kickbakcs and sending their kids to Foreign universities.

 

[ziaulislam]

Requirement is there period..you will see 200+ mi17 pumas dying rusting away in next 25 years..

Now Chinese would offer you cheap alternative which will be affordable but buying so many chopper off the shelf??

Better find a company and do a JV or at least a tender for licence production (which might be cheaper)

You don't need a 100% indeginous priduct..the engines and all the conplex stuff can be imported just like what the indians did 3 decades ago

 

[MastanKhan]

Requirement is there period..you will see 200+ mi17 pumas dying rusting away in next 25 years..

Now Chinese would offer you cheap alternative which will be affordable but buying so many chopper off the shelf??

Better find a company and do a JV or at least a tender for licence production (which might be cheaper)

You don't need a 100% indeginous priduct..the engines and all the conplex stuff can be imported just like what the indians did 3 decades ago

Hi,

It is not a defeatist mentality---. It is a reality---. The success of pak military ventures is that it knows and understands its limitations.

Our primary need was a fighter aircraft---and we have that in a JV form---.

Choppers are a necessity---and in our military's eyes on as important as fighter aircraft---thus we can get them from elsewhere---.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

And when it will become a priority all the ships would have sailed. And Pak mil will be sitting like a jilted bride?!

And you will be opening threads complaining about complacency and carelessness of Property dealer generals.

Hi,

It is not a defeatist mentality---. It is a reality---. The success of pak military ventures is that it knows and understands its limitations.

Our primary need was a fighter aircraft---and we have that in a JV form---.

Choppers are a necessity---and in our military's eyes on as important as fighter aircraft---thus we can get them from elsewhere---.

 

[airomerix]

And when it will become a priority all the ships would have sailed. And Pak mil will be sitting like a jilted bride?!

And you will be opening threads complaining about complacency and carelessness of Property dealer generals.

You make no sense.

Why are passing comments like that? This is not the appropriate thread to rant about generals getting involved in land scams.

Learn a thing or two about posting on forums.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

This thread is about Air Force or military having a lack of even a basic helicopter program. And naturally the complacency and carelessness of these generals is bound to come up.

Not just this but carelessness of AF generals has also come up regarding other programs as well.

And we all are familiar with the pre-WoT breed that had big egos and Afsar mindset.

You make no sense.

Why are passing comments like that? This is not the appropriate thread to rant about generals getting involved in land scams.

Learn a thing or two about posting on forums.

 

[khanasifm]

Numbers and cost/benefit will large number can justify heli 30 or so doeskin not unless all services go for single platform leading to a number higher than say 80ish may be but so far all services together number is still smaller than what will justify setting up
Assembly of few does not make sense
If army and paf aw139 put together do not cross 30 or so still not justify , they may add Mro later

 

[Imran Khan]

Man choppers are 2nd periority