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Why no applause for 138 million exiting poverty?

This is confusing.

Rs 5,000 for 5 translate to US$1.25 PPP per 5 persons translate to US$ 0.50 cents per 5 person ?

Why not just say US$ 0.10 cent per person per day?
And I believe the US$ 0.10 only includes food.

Rs. 25 = 1 $ PPP. That's why.

On an average, what you can buy for $1 in USA, you can buy in India in Rs. 25.
(PPP factor is about 2.25 for India)

They key is average.

Imported goods (specifically, petroleum products and gold) cost the same as what they cost internationally.

But many goods and services are much cheaper than a factor of 2.25 would suggest.

For example, a cellular phone call costs Rs. 0.50... in US a similar phone call costs much more than Rs. 1.10

Food: Public distribution sells wheat at about Rs. 5 per kg ... same thing can costs in US upwards of Rs. 18.

PPP factors in for goods and services which are forbidden for export, or services which can't be exported (e.g. cellular phone minutes).

The UN poverty line of $1.25 PPP is indeed equal to Rs. 33.

As India grows, the poverty line will be revised... as is natural.
 
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Rs. 25 = 1 $ PPP. That's why.

On an average, what you can buy for $1 in USA, you can buy in India in Rs. 25.
(PPP factor is about 2.25 for India)

They key is average.

Imported goods (specifically, petroleum products and gold) cost the same as what they cost internationally.

But many goods and services are much cheaper than a factor of 2.25 would suggest.

For example, a cellular phone call costs Rs. 0.50... in US a similar phone call costs much more than Rs. 1.10

Food: Public distribution sells wheat at about Rs. 5 per kg ... same thing can costs in US upwards of Rs. 18.

PPP factors in for goods and services which are forbidden for export, or services which can't be exported (e.g. cellular phone minutes).

The UN poverty line of $1.25 PPP is indeed equal to Rs. 33.

As India grows, the poverty line will be revised... as is natural.

Determining the poverty line is usually done by finding the total cost of all the essential resources that an average human adult consumes in one year.[6] The largest of these expenses is typically the rent


As for rent, in china, company that hire many migrant workers. They have to provide accommodation as part of the deal.

India only include food in their calculation. They assume the other basic necessity such as health care, education, rent are free.
 
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Indians are reducing the poverty definition by lowering the threshold at the same time Indian Rupee is rapidly depreciating. It doesn't take a 7th grader to realise that seriously suppresses living standards and artificially distorts "government numbers".

To the OP on why the world doesn't take India seriously, when China had a $50 USD per capita GDP its people could go to school and get an education, they didn't have to worry about what's for dinner every night or where and what time it was so they could go to the local railroads to carry on their private business. Regardless of the low income, people had the social and economic mobility to better themselves and not be systematically discriminated against by the social hierarchy. India today has an infant mortality rate comparable to China in the late 1970s/80s. A literacy rate 3 decades behind.

Why do you think today, stupid privileged Indians (also many PDF members) go abroad and boasts how great India is, its potential and promise, when in fact its a depressing place to live for hundreds of million. People have eyes and they can see the stark contrast between the words and reality.
 
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Furthermore in China if you are a peasant, the government will lease you (very cheap) a large piece of land in the countryside. In China, all land belongs to the government.
So if a migrant worker loses his job and is down on his luck, he always have a piece of land he can return to and grow food to eat.
 
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Determining the poverty line is usually done by finding the total cost of all the essential resources that an average human adult consumes in one year.[6] The largest of these expenses is typically the rent


India only include food in their calculation. They assume the other basic necessity such as health care, education, rent are free.

You are right:agree:

Unfortunately our ruling party is full of shameless cowards who do anything for show off and vote:hitwall:
 
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Determining the poverty line is usually done by finding the total cost of all the essential resources that an average human adult consumes in one year.[6] The largest of these expenses is typically the rent


As for rent, in china, company that hire many migrant workers. They have to provide accommodation as part of the deal.

India only include food in their calculation. They assume the other basic necessity such as health care, education, rent are free.

Health care and education are close to free (Public). Rent calculation can be questioned.
 
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For those 269 million still below the poverty line, rent isn't an issue.. because their habitations are on public land.

Any family of five, earning less than Rs. 5000 per month.. doesn't pay rent.

But for those earning over Rs. 5000/-, the monthly budget could work out like this:

Rent of their (very modest) dwelling: Rs. 1000

Food grains from Public Distribution System: 35 kg x Rs 7 / kg = Rs. 265
(e.g. 35 kg wheat or rice)

Additional food at market price: 40 kg x Rs 15 / kg = Rs. 600

Additional food (pulses / vegetables) = 30 days x Rs 30 per day = Rs. 900

Milk: 1 litre x 30 days x Rs 30 per litre = Rs. 900
(off course, all 5 can't drink it .. it's for tea and for children)

Fuel (Kerosene oil from PDS = Rs. 80 or LPG = Rs. 450): Rs. 450

Medical emergencies / routine medicines: Rs. 500

Education (2 children - school fee is nil, but for sundry expenses): Rs. 500

How does that sound for a monthly budget of a "just above" the extremely poor families?

And the the real real problem:

How do those 269 million people still below the "extreme povertly line" live at even less than Rs. 5000 per month per family of five?
 
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I just want to tell you a fact: India simply doesn't have enough food for everyone.

India can only provide 500g rice/wheat for every Indian per day based on your grain yield data.

You rich people including all internet warriors here will surely get much more, plus a lot of food was wasted, and ironically India is actually a food export country.

Now the question is: how much food can the poor get?
 
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congratulations, a really big great achievement. sadly no western medias have interest on it.
how did you get it? what are those poor live on?
 
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Now the question is: how much food can the poor get?

Read my post above !!

Anyway, a family of five would get (per month)

1. 75 kg of wheat or rice

2. Rs. 30 per day, worth of vegetables / pulses

(usually good to buy 600-700 gms of pulses with Rs 30 at market price. No pulses or vegetables under PDS).

3. 30 litres of milk


Wheat or rice contain 11-13 grams of protein per 100 gms.

So, 500 gms contain between 55 to 65 gms.

That's the main source of protein.. and is quite reasonable.

Other nutrients are chipped in by pulses (additional protein), vegetables (... etc etc) and milk (everything !).

It will indeed be matter of concern for the Govt to cover those 269 million, who are below the moderate level of poverty (i.e. less than Rs. 5000 per month per family of five).

P.S. - I give $hit to jingoistic and flamist chinese talk. If that's why you are here, get lost.
 
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Ok good news about India, so all Chinese low life trolls are burning.:laughcry:

Seriously, at least to me, if there are not so many word "China" in this article, I won't even bother to read it.

If you want an answer of this article title, then let me tell you why. Because you are really good at talking/bragging/lying, and Amartya Sen and others scholars know this very well, so they did not give you applause for such a good statistics.

Feeling angry about what I said? Now read..

I don't know what is happening in India, whether there is real "free" or "Rs 5 for 1kg" food for the poor.

I just want to tell you a fact: India simply doesn't have enough food for everyone.

India can only provide 500g rice/wheat for every Indian per day based on your grain yield data.

You rich people including all internet warriors here will surely get much more, plus a lot of food was wasted, and ironically India is actually a food export country.

Now the question is: how much food can the poor get?

I don't know the answer, my guess is around 300g (400 calorie energy or less). That's farrrrrr from enough.
What is the minimum number of calories needed a day before you die? - Yahoo! Answers

You can say whatever your food price is, but when several thousand children die of hungry every day, there must be a reason.

Not all eat wheat and rice. And you cannot say only either of wheat or rice as food. Wheat, rice, pulses, vegetables, milk, seafood, eggs, poultry and other meat sources is what I can think of.
 
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Not all eat wheat and rice. And you cannot say only either of wheat or rice as food. Wheat, rice, pulses, vegetables, milk, seafood, eggs, poultry and other meat sources is what I can think of.

How much money is left for meat, poultry,eggs, milk and seafood after the purchase of wheat or rice? What about housing and clothing? What about quality education and healthcare where patients are getting decent treatments and students decent education and where teachers are actually showing up?
 
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Götterdämmerung;4585128 said:
How much money is left for meat, poultry,eggs, milk and seafood after the purchase of wheat or rice? What about housing and clothing? What about quality education and healthcare where patients are getting decent treatments and students decent education and where teachers are actually showing up?

That is subjective discussion. Quality services have more to do with corruption than price. Govt cannot have this in its calculation, can it?
 
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When China reduced people in poverty by 220 million between 1978 and 2004, the world applauded this as the greatest poverty reduction in history. Amartya Sen, Joseph Stiglitz and all other poverty specialists cheered.
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India has just reduced its number of poor from 407 million to 269 million, a fall of 138 million in seven years between 2004-05 and 2011-12 . This is faster than China's poverty reduction rate at a comparable stage of development, though for a much shorter period

India has just reduced its number of poor from 407 million to 269 million, a fall of 138 million in seven years between 2004-05 and 2011-12 . This is faster than China's poverty reduction rate at a comparable stage of development, though for a much shorter period. Are the China-cheerers hailing India for doing even better?

No, many who hailed China are today rubbishing the Indian achievement as meaningless or statistically fudged. This includes the left, many NGOs and some TV anchors. The double standard is startling.

The Tendulkar Committee determined India's poverty definition. The Tendulkar poverty line in 2011-12 came to Rs 4,000 per rural and Rs 5,000 per urban family of five. Critics say this is ridiculously low. But it is roughly equal to the World Bank's well-established poverty line of $1.25 per day in Purchasing Power Parity terms (which translates into around 50 cents/day in current dollars). This is used by over 100 countries, by the United Nations and many other international agencies. When the whole world uses this standard, why call it statistical fudge?

When China claimed to have lifted 220 million people out of poverty, guess what its poverty line was? Just $85 per year, or $0.24 per day! Whatever statistical adjustments you make for comparability, it was far lower than today's Tendulkar line. Did today's critics of the Tendulkar line castigate China for fudging? No, they sang China's praises.

The World Bank actually has two lines — $1.25 denoting extreme poverty, and $2 denoting moderate poverty. India can also adopt two lines, the Tendulkar line for extreme poverty and a new Rangarajan line for moderate poverty, at around $2/day.

But this will in no way diminish the great achievement of slashing the number of those historically called poor — we can call them the "extreme poor" — by 138 million in seven years. Allowing for rising population in this period, the number saved from extreme poverty is even higher at 180 million.

Given our rising GDP and expectations, we can rename the Tendulkar line as our extreme poverty line. But to condemn it as statistical fudge is ridiculous. The $1.25 line is a world standard, even if it is below the Arnab Goswami line or Sitaram Yechhury line. Indian critics may not accept it, but the world will. There is, of course, the separate issue of who should be entitled to various government subsidies, including food subsidies. Economists talk of targeting subsidies at those below the Tendulkar line. But for politicians, the aim of subsidies is to win votes. And clearly you win more votes by extending subsidies to two-thirds of the population, rather than the poorest one-third .

This spread of subsidies to those above the extreme poverty line was once called "leakages to the non-poor ." But it is considered good politics even if it is bad economics . This explains why the government chose to cover 67% of the population in the Food Security Bill, even though the poverty ratio at the time was 30%.

However, critics quickly exposed this as a double standard. They asked, if your Food Security Bill views two-thirds of the people as needy, how could you have a poverty line saying only one third are poor? The government found it difficult to say this was good politics even if it was bad economics. Instead, it appointed the Rangarajan Committee to devise a higher poverty line. This line will almost certainly be around the moderate poverty line ($ 2/day in PPP terms) of the World Bank.

Many critics and TV anchors will cheer at the prospect of freebies to two-thirds of the population. Yet here lie the seeds of fiscal disaster. India is poor because it has spent too much on ill-targeted subsidies, leaving too little for infrastructure and effective education that will raise incomes permanently. Total subsidies (mostly non-merit subsidies) exploded in the 1980s, reaching 14.5 % of GDP, almost as much as all central and state tax revenue. This ended in a fiscal and balance of payments crisis in 1991.

The risk of a new poverty line of $2/day is that it will create political demands for more freebies to twothird of the population. That will further erode limited funds for productive spending.

In theory we can limit subsidies to the poorest and cut out unworthy subsidies. In practice, the combined pressure of vote banks and TV anchors threatens to raise subsidies beyond all prudent limits. There lie the seeds of another 1991-style disaster.

Why no applause for 138 million exiting poverty? - The Economic Times on Mobile

PDF is full of INC haters and NaMo lovers but its a fact that nobody alive can claim that he had more positive impact on the lives of ordinary Indians than Dr. Manmohan Singh.

Why no applause you ask?...because all this is nothing more than a an artificial change in a statistic....

Does this mean Indians who have moved to the north of the poverty life go to bed on a full stomach? NO...

Does this mean we get an opportunity to brag on PDF in front of other poor or poorer nations? YES....
and we obviously dont miss any opportunity...

Lets cheer when our fat babus stop skimming off the top from the real needy and an average indians household income matched other developed or semi-developed countries...

I'd rather be slightly less than Germany...than be slightly more than Africa...
 
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Götterdämmerung;4585128 said:
How much money is left for meat, poultry,eggs, milk and seafood after the purchase of wheat or rice? What about housing and clothing? What about quality education and healthcare where patients are getting decent treatments and students decent education and where teachers are actually showing up?

There are 1 billion people in families above the poverty line (as defined by Rs 5000 per month for a family of five).

Next you'll ask where is the money to buy Gold ? - aren't you being stupid !!!

The focus here is on those 269 million, who are still below the poverty line -- and yes, they don't buy Gold, stupid !!!

The first thing is to bring thse 269 million people above the extreme povertly line of $1.25 PPP per capita.

And then, bring everybody above the new poverty line of $2 PPP per capita.

What's is being talked about is the progress made so far ... and how much work is still left.
 
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