Why is Pakistan doing this with Israel? Shirin Mazari in the NA

[M. Sarmad]

It's more like ... the way israel was formed. A homeland of Jews might be their right, but the way they acquire that homeland is the question here. If the Jews had acquired their homeland through political struggle or by buying off an uninhabited land, we would be very happy to accept it. But they did not acquire their homeland like that. They tore it off from an already sovereign and established country. For example, if Parsis buy off a large patch of land in Pakistan and tomorrow claim that it's their own free homeland, shall we accept that?

The link you have posted does imply that it is a prophecy that the Jews would return to their original abode before the day of judgement, but this prophecy does not justify their wrongdoings and their brutalities. If you are told that after 5 years, your brother will be murdered by a serial killer (God forbid!), and it happens like that, will you forgive the serial killer simply because it was prophecised earlier?

I guess not.

That's why I said Regardless of whether or not Israel is "right", the Muslims should accept and recognize the state of Israel.

Anyway

The Jews purchased land from the Arabs, and they conquered land in their (defensive) war against the Arabs.

Both methods are considered legitimate (for acquiring land) in Islam.

Why double standards ?


As for the link I posted, the point was:

From an Islamic point of view, there is NO fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State.

 

[Zarvan]

The Holy Quran is pure word of Allah Almighty, revealed by Allah, and is valid until eternity. The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there.

http://www.templemount.org/quranland.html


Regardless of whether or not Israel is "right", the Muslims should accept and recognize the state of Israel. There are more than 50 Muslim majority countries in the World, why can't Jews have one ? After all, Muslims do recognize Jews as the People of the Book, they regard the Children of Israel as an important religious concept in Islam. Moses, the most important prophet of Judaism, is also considered a prophet and messenger in Islam... Muslims always had good relationship with the Jews for centuries before the foundation of State of Israel. Muslims and Jews have lived together peacefully throughout history (Jews have often lived in predominantly Islamic nations) and Jewish persecution under Muslim rule had been very rare.


Even Saudi Arabia is taking its relationship with Israel from a clandestine connection to a public one. Why can't we establish diplomatic relations with Israel ? More loyal than the King ?

Israel where it's currently located won't be accepted ever. Israel will be either located somewhere else or will be taken to task.

 

[dartman]

If you are arguing on religious basis (and not political, as I had intended in my post) then how can we even make a political decision (accepting a state as legitimate) without a religious head (caliph) at all? Before anything else (religiously), we direly need a caliph to make decisions for us and lead us. Neither you, nor me can argue what is right in Islam and what is wrong, since neither you, nor me hold a religious scholar certificate.

However we can argue on political basis, as we are neither barred from political discussion by our religion, nor by our constitution.

Furthermore, have you read the detailed history about the creation of israel? How come suddenly a group of civilians acquired so many arms and ammunition that it was able to easily defeat a national army? Is there a rotting rat somewhere in the pot?

 

[litman]

We aren't afraid because if war went down, not only are you too far away, you are also far smaller than us so if God forbid things went nuclear, yes we would be damaged but Israel would cease to exist.

Not saying that I want that.

dear i never said this . you are misquoting me here

 

[M. Sarmad]

If you are arguing on religious basis (and not political, as I had intended in my post) then how can we even make a political decision (accepting a state as legitimate) without a religious head (caliph) at all? Before anything else (religiously), we direly need a caliph to make decisions for us and lead us. Neither you, nor me can argue what is right in Islam and what is wrong, since neither you, nor me hold a religious scholar certificate.

However we can argue on political basis, as we are neither barred from political discussion by our religion, nor by our constitution.

Arab-Israel conflict is political, not religious. I only pointed out that using Islam as an instrument for political warfare against Jews, in fact, finds a major obstacle in the Qur'an itself.

As for Caliph (and caliphate), again there is no mention of Caliph (or caliphate) in the Holy Qur'an. And the Holy Prophet (PBUH) didn't endorse/devise this (or any other) form of government. Therefore, Caliphate is not essential in Islam.


The Elected Assembly of a Muslim state, as suggested by Allama Muhammad Iqbal, should exercise this power as Ijma (consensus of the community) in the process of enacting (Islamic) legislation.

And You don't need a religious scholar certificate to understand/discuss Islam.

 

[SOHEIL]

Why I have a feeling that U r definitely not happy while saying this? If Pakistan had relationship with Israel, we would have helped Palestinians far far better.

Start relationship

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Start relationship

So Pak shouldnt have relations with other countries yet its good if iran or ksa has relations with india?

 

[LA se Karachi]

That's why I said Regardless of whether or not Israel is "right", the Muslims should accept and recognize the state of Israel.

Anyway

The Jews purchased land from the Arabs, and they conquered land in their (defensive) war against the Arabs.

Both methods are considered legitimate (for acquiring land) in Islam.

Why double standards ?


As for the link I posted, the point was:

From an Islamic point of view, there is NO fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State.

I don't necessarily agree that Gaza and the West Bank have been "legitimately conquered" by Israel. But let's go with the theory that they have been.

Perhaps everyone living on that land should also be recognized as citizens, be given equal rights, not have their homes destroyed, and be allowed to vote then as well too? There is a difference between a form of apartheid and claiming land as part of your country. If that land is a part of your country, at a bare minimum, the people living on it must be too.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

So Pak shouldnt have relations with other countries yet its good if iran or ksa has relations with india?

It is a failure of our own foreign policy that the Arab world have economic relations with India, had our civilian government played our cards right we could have easily isolated India from the Arab world but did we?, did we ever asked the Arabs to not have economic relations with India? Military planners and thinkers cannot make foreign policies and diplomatic relationships, it is not even in their job resume, it is the job of the civilian government but unfortunately ours have always being incompetent and corrupt to a degree.

 

[This Man]

no problem in this

 

[SOHEIL]

So Pak shouldnt have relations with other countries yet its good if iran or ksa has relations with india?

I said do it ...

 

[CriticalThinker02]

I said do it ...

I smell a veiled threat from your comments . . .

 

[rayanBis123456789]

i would like u opên a new thread on israHELL EPIC fail to shoot down a SIMPLE slow falying drone

PLEASE.

open a threat on the EPIC israHELLI fail to shoot down a slow flying drone ... et how iranians / russians jammed their so blowy "tech" that never ever really worked WELL LOL

PLEASE .

 

[SOHEIL]

I smell a veiled threat from your comments . . .

 

[rayanBis123456789]

WHAT ?