Why is My Hijab Your Problem?

[Uchiha]

ANyway .. forgot to mention todays story while I was stuck on Sharah e Faisal in the rain. This girl in full Burka and hijab (not nikab) was being followed by a guy on a motorbike on the other side of the road, he was clearly harassing her. Also nowadays guys dont even leave the fully veiled ones even, saying that a lot of prostitutes wear the burka. These frustrated animals will never quit, so this burka theory that it protects the women is pretty crap to begin with.

did you try to help her?

 

[Armstrong]

Meri jan, kidher thay? Let's not troll this thread, lets go to some other thread for our usual chitty chat

As if something worthwhile is being talked about here on this very thread ? Ironic isn't it that we're all discussing to death how a piece of cloth epitomizes intellectually/civil slavery or emancipation and that we're all men who are vociferously vouching for or against a piece of clothing particular to women. One might be forgiven for thinking that in our zeal to have an opinion on things we vouch so ardently for things that are inherently trivial and yet are attached an sense of importance to them simply because someone somewhere thought that they couldn't control their emotions enough to either stand up for it or against it.

This is a non issue ! Its the same bs that we've been talking about for hundreds of years ! Let the women decide what they want...they are Muslims too, they have minds of their own too and one might even argue minds that are more focused and disciplined than many of their male counterparts. Let them decide on a personal level what they think is 'right', what are the 'limits' and what does one do if those limits are 'transgressed'.

Ideally there really shouldn't arise a time when we're talking about these things as if all the other problems facing the Muslim world have evaporated ! But if there needs to be a decision or a closure of sorts about this on a collective level then man hasn't come up with a better system of to determine what is 'right and wrong', 'reasonable and unreasonable' and 'acceptable and unacceptable' at a collective level then the 'democratic process'. However much dysfunctional it maybe...it remains, by far, the best system out there to answer these question. I don't for a second say that what is decided in a gathering is absolutely 'right', what was admonished was absolutely 'wrong' and that sense and reason prevailed for that is clearly not the case but the 'democratic process' brings with it three things that makes it the only viable option that we have - 1) the assumption that collective wisdom will prevail and that we will not agree in error. 2) because the will of the majority prevails it will have a deep sense of ownership across the society and also how more often than not because compromises and concessions are made to bring about a consensus of sorts, even significant numbers from the minority faction can be brought on board alongside the majority. And 3) what is the alternative ? Either God sends someone from up above to solve our problems as he/she sees it fit or we as individuals pick up clubs and machetes to enforce our opinion.

I firmly believe that these decisions pertaining to a hijab or something similar on an individualistic or collective level must come from the women themselves instead of men imposing their own will for it will never stick and the brewing resentment would be always there. Let the women decide and let us stand by to offer our support if need be.

Having said that I can't help but voice the absurdity of pegging women's emancipation or subjugation to a piece of clothing and then presenting it as an idea worth taking sides over. Our real issues are much more clear cut and in this context the issue isn't whether its a 'hijab' or a 'bikini' its 'letting the women decide themselves' instead of 'men imposing their view point'.

 

[Mosamania]

I would like you to be more explicit about this group. Who are these handful men who put obstacles to your progress? Don't get me wrong, i agree with this post totally.

these people:

 

[Uchiha]

As if something worthwhile is being talked about here on this very thread ? Ironic isn't it that we're all discussing to death how a piece of cloth epitomizes intellectually/civil slavery or emancipation and that we're all men who are vociferously vouching for or against a piece of clothing particular to women. One might be forgiven for thinking that in our zeal to have an opinion on things we vouch so ardently for things that are inherently trivial and yet are attached an sense of importance to them simply because someone somewhere thought that they couldn't control their emotions enough to either stand up for it or against it.

This is a non issue ! Its the same bs that we've been talking about for hundreds of years ! Let the women decide what they want...they are Muslims too, they have minds of their own too and one might even argue minds that are more focused and disciplined than many of their male counterparts. Let them decide on a personal level what they think is 'right', what are the 'limits' and what does one do if those limits are 'transgressed'.

Ideally there really shouldn't arise a time when we're talking about these things as if all the other problems facing the Muslim world have evaporated ! But if there needs to be a decision or a closure of sorts about this on a collective level then man hasn't come up with a better system of to determine what is 'right and wrong', 'reasonable and unreasonable' and 'acceptable and unacceptable' at a collective level then the 'democratic process'. However much dysfunctional it maybe...it remains, by far, the best system out there to answer these question. I don't for a second say that what is decided in a gathering is absolutely 'right', what was admonished was absolutely 'wrong' and that sense and reason prevailed for that is clearly not the case but the 'democratic process' brings with it three things that makes it the only viable option that we have - 1) the assumption that collective wisdom will prevail and that we will not agree in error. 2) because the will of the majority prevails it will have a deep sense of ownership across the society and also how more often than not because compromises and concessions are made to bring about a consensus of sorts, even significant numbers from the minority faction can be brought on board alongside the majority. And 3) what is the alternative ? Either God sends someone from up above to solve our problems as he/she sees it fit or we as individuals pick up clubs and machetes to enforce our opinion.

I firmly believe that these decisions pertaining to a hijab or something similar on an individualistic or collective level must come from the women themselves instead of men imposing their own will for it will never stick and the brewing resentment would be always there. Let the women decide and let us stand by to offer our support if need be.

Having said that I can't help but voice the absurdity of pegging women's emancipation or subjugation to a piece of clothing and then presenting it as an idea worth taking sides over. Our real issues are much more clear cut and in this context the issue isn't whether its a 'hijab' or a 'bikini' its 'letting the women decide themselves' instead of 'men imposing their view point'.

Some mullas had the foresight and prepared for the 21st century where feminazis rule, so they brainwashed female mullas(we have one or two on this forum) who would pressure and degrade OTHER women and practically force them into covering
So I think we all have the right to show these women the truth

 

[jackyy]

You can't force people to wear hijab nor can you force them to take it off, case closed. If you force them it wont signify their choice, if you forcefully take them off you are committing a very disgusting attack against her belief and freedom to choose.

But it is written in Quran that Women should cover them.How can you go against the book ?

 

[Uchiha]

these people:

are those cops? or just random people?

 

[Mosamania]

are those cops? or just random people?

They are the Hai'ah "The Organization". The "Religious-Police" as they are known anywhere except KSA.

 

[Uchiha]

They are the Hai'ah "The Organization". The "Religious-Police" as they are known anywhere except KSA.

What are their powers/positions?

 

[forcetrip]

did you try to help her?

It was on the other side of the highway. The FTC side was clear for traffic while my side was moving at 2km/hr. By the time i rolled down my window they were out of shouting distance. I wasnt going to leave traffic stranded because of one animal, I am sure my women know how to handle these pakistanis. I can bet you my life they get harassed at least 5 times a day. Good thing he wasnt on my side of the road. The funny thing is people with full beards were actually rolling by looking at the poor girl as if she was doing something wrong. It was heartbreaking.

 

[Tshering22]

Then they the westerners should stop calling themselves as Champions of Human Rights, now i have to go back to dictionary to see the meaning of Human Rights and some pathetic word Secularism .

They don't refer to you; does their definition ever include you?

People have a lot of titles and names:

But your point still isn't valid as it is their country and their laws.

Obey them or if you don't like it, why not return?


Say if Jews were there in Pakistan and wanted Halaka to be their only judgeable law and they refused to be tried under Pakistani/Islamic law, would you accept it?

I am sure you won't.


So why cry when they want you to follow their rules when you're staying in THEIR countries?

You can't force people to wear hijab nor can you force them to take it off, case closed. If you force them it wont signify their choice, if you forcefully take them off you are committing a very disgusting attack against her belief and freedom to choose.

Its their country and their laws.

Maybe it is wrong in your dictionary and someone else's but they feel it is right. And being their territory, they have the right to dictate their laws.

 

[Mosamania]

What are their powers/positions?

Well it is more in the contest of them being a pain in the a$$ now. In the past they could arrest people, fine them and pretty much had an open field on the people.

Now they just waste your time by taking to their station and making you sign a "I swear I will never do it again" paper. Recently they are not allowed to chase people. Arrest them. Or question them if rebuked. However these new rules did not really set in well with them and most tend to ignore them.

I personally would love nothing more than to pick a fight with these pricks and teach them a lesson in manners and humanity but for some reason they tend to ovoid me and apparently only pick on people who appear not capable of defending themselves and of small build recently (because people now beat the crap out of them if they get in their nerves and I am itching to do the same).

No doubt there are clear efforts to open and liberalize KSA which is doing tremendous positives to the country in general. I mean the so little room to breath that has been created have led us to be the biggest Arab country in terms of scientific output, patents, tech savvy nation, highest bilingual per-capita and more. The potential is there. And it is tremendous and outright overwhelming to be left out and ignored.

However above said people have a genetically built-in trait to self combust when angered. So you gotta watch out for the "Radical-o-meter" there and make sure it doesn't hit dangerous level.

KSA's victory over Al-Qaeda from 2003-2006 have given the country a room to breath from these radicals which we utilized to the max, however I fear now we must gear up for round 2.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

They don't refer to you; does their definition ever include you?

People have a lot of titles and names:

But your point still isn't valid as it is their country and their laws.

Obey them or if you don't like it, why not return?


Say if Jews were there in Pakistan and wanted Halaka to be their only judgeable law and they refused to be tried under Pakistani/Islamic law, would you accept it?

I am sure you won't.


So why cry when they want you to follow their rules when you're staying in THEIR countries?



Its their country and their laws.

Maybe it is wrong in your dictionary and someone else's but they feel it is right. And being their territory, they have the right to dictate their laws.

I don't have a problem with KSA or any other country in the world. But the injustice in my own country is unbearable. That is why i said no one can force women to wear or take off hijab, it is a personal choice.

 

[Uchiha]

Self delete

 

[KS]

The very same reason Taliban Burqa law was Western problem.

State and society forcing someone to wear or not wear something...... Same as taliban.....

I dont think they gave two hoots about it, as long as it stayed in Afghanistan.

 

[RayKalm]

Zulkarneyn has stated it perfectly.

You should be entitled to what you choose to wear/do, and you should not be entitled to force said thing unto others.

For me, personally, I am a Muslim. I chose to be a Muslim, and no one has the right to take that or any principles relating to that away from me, nor do I have the right to force my Islam on anyone else.