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Why is great philosopher Kautilya not part of Pakistan’s historical consciousness?

How many lifetimes are you willing to wait?

I am talking about a social system that has evolved and been our civilizational DNA over thousands of years.

Cheers, Doc

Everyone waits.
Everyone waits for death.

The social system of the previous civilization was weak and thus why it is on a fast track to extinction.

Those who promote such things are like the Masai or the Bushman and you can travel with me to Africa to see what happened to them.

Everything evolves. Its the rate of evolution that decides who comes out superior.
 
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That was quite confusing. how can Pakistan remain joined to Hindu India if it refuses to acknowledge Hindu past?

Simple. You are always seen by other around the world as Muslim Indians who broke away.

Attempts now on this forum and others to try and portray yourselves as a historic and uniuely separate continuum are too little too disjointed too upper crust and frankly too late.

The traditional narrative has taken hold.

Ask anyone here what they see you guys as.

Ask the Iranians. Ask the Saudis. Ask the Turks.

As the Americans. Ask the Israelis. Eavesdrop on the Chinese to hear what they really say ...

Cheers, Doc
 
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Simple. You are always seen by other around the world as Muslim Indians who broke away.

Attempts now on this forum and others to try and portray yourselves as a historic and uniuely separate continuum are too little too disjointed too upper crust and frankly too late.

The traditional narrative has taken hold.

As anyone here what they see you guys as.

Ask the Iranians. Ask the Saudis. Ask the Turks.

As the Americans. Ask the Israelis. Eavesdrop on the Chinese to hear what they really say ...

Cheers, Doc

Hahaha. Oh come on. Please give this Akhand Bharat dream a rest. It is only Hindustan which thinks of it in this way. Pakistan is a reality and it is distinct from India.
 
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That was quite confusing. how can Pakistan remain joined to Hindu India if it refuses to acknowledge Hindu past?
India is not the only Hindu country. Indeed Nepal I believe is more "Hindu" then India as by % Hindus there are more dominant. Sri Lanka also has significant Hindus and so does Bali. It is wrong to equote India as only Hindu country,
 
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India is not the only Hindu country. Indeed Nepal I believe is more "Hindu" then India as by % Hindus there are more dominant. Sri Lanka also has significant Hindus and so does Bali. It is wrong to equote India as only Hindu country,

I have great respect for people of all religion and prefer not to identify people in terms of religion, but I was addressing that post specifically. Otherwise, we have patriotic Pakistanis who follow Hinduism too so Hinduism is not limited to India only.
 
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Hindu civilization started in Sindh and finishes there rest scattered in Indian subcontinent, while the area we have there are many other civilizations.
 
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Simple. You are always seen by other around the world as Muslim Indians who broke away.
That is very true. But common misperceptions exist everywhere. If everybody thinks I am a Buddhist I falls on me to fix that error. And if that error has taken root it will take lot of effort.

In this case the branding, distributing and making of world perception as regards South Asia was done by Britain. As the superpower of it's time it influence spread to every nook and cranny of the world. The world began to assoiciate British India to what is now South Asia and that undestanding persists today - to a point even our people have become victims to British narrative of our world. I am as a person brought up in Britain are conspicious of this but it take a clear mind to get rid of the fudge. But most people just buy te fudge.
 
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"Simple. You are always seen by other around the world as Muslim Indians who broke away."

Your words imply a different thinking.

They imply what everyone sees you as.

Because you never developed a unique identity of your own that was not dependent on "not/anti" India.

In trying hard to distance yourself from India, to ridiculous lengths may I say with your institutionalized selective historical revisionism, you were seen and are seen as Indians who have a serious problem with the large majority of Indians and therefore broke away.

You lost your heritage and ownership of native history because ultimately to the world INDIA (the modern political state) became the natural inheritor of all such.

And you became a diaphanous twilight zone somewhere between the sands of Arabia and the jungles and flood plains of India.

Cheers, Doc
 
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I give you one example. Most books about Alexander's invasion of South Asia were writteny by Englishmen living in the Raj during the colonial times. So in their writings when Alexander crossed the Khyber they call it "invasion of India" and when Porus fought Alexander "Indians fighting Greeks". The writers obviouosly were writing in late 1800s and because it was British India then they used language and descriptions accordingly. The influence of these books spread across the world as they were printed in USA/Canada and in Europe translated into European languages like Spanish which even impacted South America.

However we have to now re-translate this thinking in terms to the modern world. This is something Paks have to do. That is why I 'waste' my time on this subject hoping to make some differance in some small way. I certainly feel things are changing slowly. I think there has been lot of change since 2000s.

There are two forces conspiring in the present to stop a seprate Pakistani heritage coming out and standing with pride in the hall of fame. First it is the Indians who have never accepted 1947. They think that British beast called "British India" was their "Mata" when one look at the the prefix "British" and Union Jack destroys that delusion.

But still Indian genuinely have been brainwashed or refuse to come to terms with 1947 and think the whole of British India was theirs. So since 1947 they can't do anything about the physical reality of Pakistan but they deny it's existence on the historical/intellectual plane by simply grabbing our history as their property. So Pakistan might be a reality but to them Harappa or Mohenjo Daro is their propery. They then have spun incredible naratives to justify their claim on our heritage. Silly ideas like "you ae Muslim, you are Arabs, you are invaders" etc etc are given. While it might be true to a degree but non of those things sever the reality that what lies under Pak's soil is the heritage of the people who live their even if they have evolved over the thousands of years. Who does not evolve?

The second thing conspiring to prevent Paks 'owning' their heritage is the extreme religioius lobby because try to create a ummah concept where the nation state is haram and every Muslim is just one big brotherhood. This is as big if not bigger fraud then the Indians peddle because if this ws even half true then Afghans would be allowd into Pakistan despite all the problems. I mean good or bad they are Muslims. Also any Muslim from anywhere on earth should have full and open access to Pak citizenship. If indeed Pakistan is another name for Islam.

However I believe slowly but surely things are headed in the right direction. The shackles attached to us by the British Raj are slowly being loosened and I think 2012 was height of extremism is it is now waning although it will take decades to calm down.
 
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I give you one example. Most books about Alexander's invasion of South Asia were writteny by Englishmen living in the Raj during the colonial times. So in their writings when Alexander crossed the Khyber they call it "invasion of India" and when Porus fought Alexander "Indians fighting Greeks". The writers obviouosly were writing in late 1800s and because it was British India then they used language and descriptions accordingly. The influence of these books spread across the world as they were printed in USA/Canada and in Europe translated into European languages like Spanish which even impacted South America.

However we have to now re-translate this thinking in terms to the modern world. This is something Paks have to do. That is why I 'waste' my time on this subject hoping to make some differance in some small way. I certainly feel things are changing slowly. I think there has been lot of change since 2000s.

There are two forces conspiring in the present to stop a seprate Pakistani heritage coming out and standing with pride in the hall of fame. First it is the Indians who have never accepted 1947. They think that British beast called "British India" was their "Mata" when one look at the the prefix "British" and Union Jack destroys that delusion.

But still Indian genuinely have been brainwashed or refuse to come to terms with 1947 and think the whole of British India was theirs. So since 1947 they can't do anything about the physical reality of Pakistan but they deny it's existence on the historical/intellectual plane by simply grabbing our history as their property. So Pakistan might be a reality but to them Harappa or Mohenjo Daro is their propery. They then have spun incredible naratives to justify their claim on our heritage. Silly ideas like "you ae Muslim, you are Arabs, you are invaders" etc etc are given. While it might be true to a degree but non of those things sever the reality that what lies under Pak's soil is the heritage of the people who live their even if they have evolved over the thousands of years. Who does not evolve?

The second thing conspiring to prevent Paks 'owning' their heritage is the extreme religioius lobby because try to create a ummah concept where the nation state is haram and every Muslim is just one big brotherhood. This is as big if not bigger fraud then the Indians peddle because if this ws even half true then Afghans would be allowd into Pakistan despite all the problems. I mean good or bad they are Muslims. Also any Muslim from anywhere on earth should have full and open access to Pak citizenship. If indeed Pakistan is another name for Islam.

However I believe slowly but surely things are headed in the right direction. The shackles attached to us by the British Raj are slowly being loosened and I think 2012 was height of extremism is it is now waning although it will take decades to calm down.

Summary is that you got jacked from both sides. ;)

I broadly agree. But the first there is nothing much you can do about.

The second is where you actually lost.

Broadly put, some Hindus / Indians claiming all of Akhand Bharat on the basis of shared culture and faith (at one time or the other) is akin to today's Persian Iranians claiming an area spanning two continents and most of the Central Asian -stans, all the way to the Levant and the Arabian peninsula, on the basis of them being Zoroastrian, and under Persian suzerainty.

Cheers, Doc
 
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